(02-22-2011, 04:55 PM)ToledoNative Wrote: Some of you are wondering about who to believe - the police or the family - as to whether Lisa's car was parked in the garage or driveway...

The police say garage. It is their job to take careful notes of a crime scene. The family was hysterical at the time. Let's go with what the police say.

Also, I do think it is important to know where the car was parked and if the garage door was open. From all reports, it seems the garage was open, which would make sense if you planned on not being home very long.

yes, I'm going with what Stooksbury stated, about it being in the garage, but it sure seems like this detail would be pretty easy to get straight, IMO

(02-22-2011, 04:27 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Ok, bear with me here.

1. The Straubs have a three car garage.
2. Presumably the Straub's and Lisa both have cars. (2)
3. If Lisa were to come home to change after work, in cold weather,
it would be likely she would pull into the garage.
4. If Lisa has a common car.......
5. A car similar to it could pull in the driveway behind her car and
the casual observer could think it was Lisa's car.
6. That might be why the car was there and then it wasn't.

Any thoughts?

I'm not sure what to think about Lisa's car, anymore! I'm guessing, maybe the Straub's car was in the garage too, unless they drove to where the cruise line was taking off from ?? If their car WAS in the garage, then the perps would have had a place to hide (behind or side of the car) ... I DO think JC & LS actually made it into the house, though, without any problem.. Lisa headed to change clothes, then someone confronted Johnny, IN the home. Wish we knew exactly what evidence was taken from the home, & if any of it was taken from inside the garage.

eta - It is possible the Straub's left their vehicle, parked at the airport, though

Has anybody thought about the fact that Lisa was more wounded than Johnny?

Usually blood and wounds are a sign of a fight and yet Lisa was the bloody one. Because she fought harder? Nope.

Were the intruders either punishing Johnny (maybe for not paying back a drug debt or snitching or something) by making him watch them hurting, raping, etc. Lisa OR were they doing these things to Lisa to get Johnny to talk and give them information about something (where a safe is, what the combination is, where drugs are, the list could go on and on)?

(02-22-2011, 04:55 PM)ToledoNative Wrote: Some of you are wondering about who to believe - the police or the family - as to whether Lisa's car was parked in the garage or driveway...

The police say garage. It is their job to take careful notes of a crime scene. The family was hysterical at the time. Let's go with what the police say.

Also, I do think it is important to know where the car was parked and if the garage door was open. From all reports, it seems the garage was open, which would make sense if you planned on not being home very long.

The police were there three times. Does that mean that the same
car was in the same spot on all three investigations?

(02-22-2011, 02:34 PM)Freshbait78 Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 01:20 PM)notsure Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 10:15 AM)Freshbait78 Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 08:59 AM)onefortheroad Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 01:02 AM)curious Wrote: DITTO...and let's not forget the fact you find it okay for your husband to catch a ride from someone you're going to accuse set your son up for murder not a half hour later....pleaaazzzzeeee

This is really baffling .... Tiff supposedly called Johnny's best friend's girlfriend first (Sherita/Shareda/Sharita/?), who wouldn't give her Maytee's number - can that be true? and if it is, why wouldn't she give her the number? Tiff can't be given the number for some unknown reason so Maytee has to find out from someone else indirectly, yet John Sr asks Tiff to drive him to the house. Why did he do that? How did he know her friend's mom would be home from work by then and she would have access to a car? Doesn't he have a car himself? How well did Tiff and Johnny's parents know each other? And how did they know each other? Were they friends, or only casual acquaintances - if so, how? Also, who was Johnny's best friend? I thought Ruben or Reuben was his name, but why hasn't his name come up again since?

1. why wouldn't she give her the number? I've had people call me & ask for a someones #. I don't give it out until I check with the the person who's # is being requested.

2. yet John Sr asks Tiff to drive him to the house. Why did he do that? Per Tiffanys testimony, after sharita calls Maytee, John Sr. calls Tiffany. Tiffany rehashes the story, tells John Sr she's going back by there & asks if he wants a ride. He accepts.

3. How did he know her friend's mom would be home from work by then and she would have access to a car? She was already out driving around. Per Tiffanys testimony, she had already been over to the Straubs to check out the scene before calling anyone to alert them of anything.

4. Doesn't he have a car himself? I cannot confirm nor deny that I've heard something about them having a van somewhere in this thread... I don't know where.

5. How well did Tiff and Johnny's parents know each other? And how did they know each other? Were they friends, or only casual acquaintances - if so, how? It sounded to me as if they did not know eachother prior to this incident.

6. who was Johnny's best friend? I've heard Rueben. I tried to look him up on FB after Ruebens mom posted on JCs online funeral registry but did not find any match. Apparently not everyone in the city has a FB. Same goes for a Sharita, nothing. I also used various spellings.

Freshbait, got a question i would like your input on. I feel tiff is in a "a few good men" logic loop. As a reminder of the movie nicholson's character says the victim was in danger, and that men take matters into their own hands, then later says that no one would defy his own order to not touch the victim. Applying this to our case here we have two options:

1) If we believe tiff heard johnny yelling and fighting with someone while she was on the phone then why go over there like shes going to save the day (wonder woman?) and why wait 2 fucking hours to get some real help about it.

2) if we believe tiff heard johnny casually say "I will call you back" then why the need to panick. they arent answering phones, so what.! so your going to drive 20 minutes to see why.? maybe they just decided to do something else and didn't want to include her. They arent answering the door, again so what. they didn't go back to your house, so what. these things don't then require someone to raise the alarm and wake everyone up to go over there and kick in doors. these things alone aren't indicators of foul play. hence why cops didn't enter the residence. Everyone starts to panick b/c a call isn't answered in the middle of the night.? shit they could have just been sleeping and turned off the ringer/ phone.

This goes back to my first gut reaction, someone who was trying to get help for the victims knew of a real danger, something beyond just missed phone calls, something beyond what was on the surface, to start reacting to a phone call ignored. my question is, what could that real know imminent danger be? or is it all a bs set up with fake phone calls etc.

Thus the bullshit logic loop. It doesn't seem it can really be option 1 or 2. it doesn't seem to make a bit of logical sense and when you go back and forth between options 1 and 2 you realize that at some point in this narrative there is a point where the story crumbles. your thought?

My thoughts are this: I don't believe the phone call happened the way it's been said that it did. So in my mind, the whole "Who are you?" "What are you doing?" "What do you want?" With or without "bro" thrown in there, is irrelevant. I do believe there was a phone call, I do believe this was a set up which took multiple people to carry out. This is kinda how I see it played out, in my mind. I'm don't mean to implicate anyone as of yet. This is just MY THEORY:

Johnny is at VDs house with BA just before he has to leave to get Lisa from work. They had just started hanging out again from what VD has stated publicly. Johnny leaves to get Lisa, a phone call is made that he has left & where he's headed. Tiffany calls Johnny at around 11. We know this, what we don't know for fact is what was said on the phone call. I believe the phone call was made to find out his exact location & what exactly he was doing. There may have also been some stalling. Maybe the 1^st time Tiffany called he wasn't home yet so she called back again to find out if he was home yet. (In her version this would have been when she called him back to tell him she was going to the store, this is also why I don't think it was ever intended for Johnny to pick her up) I believe who ever was to do the invasion was with Tiffany that night prior to the invasion. I think it's possible they were dropped off there at the Straubs. I think it's possible that Tiffany went to pick them up when it was done. This would account for Tiffany being there. For anyone who says Why didn't anyone see Tiffany there picking up a group of people: If this was a 3 car garage maybe she pulled into one of the spots in the gargae to load up her passangers? Also Tiffany states that she drove back by her house to see if they had left to pick her up. This could be when Tiffany drops off the people involved. While making her stop at home she calls Sherita and says "OMG I think somethings happened to Johnny I heard XYZ so I went over to the house & saw XYZ... do you think I should call his Mom?" This covers her on why she made the initial phone call to Johnny twice & why she was at the house ringing the door bell (Which could have also been a que to let the perps know it was her there to pick them up. Kinda like I'll ring the door bell 5 times & knock twice) They would not want to use cell phones knowing that they can be traced with pings & call logs. This wasn't for robbery, I think it was staged to look that way OR if it was for robbery it was secondary & it was drugs they wanted or if I really want to stretch it I could even say that the drug periphenalia found was planted. How hard is it to carry little pieces of platic bag in your pocket?

That's about all I've got so far & I may even tweek it a little here & there but I think everyone gets my idea.

My thoughts lean in this direction as well. It could have been the combination of rumors of a safe plus a highly anticipated fresh delivery of a large quantity of a drug product (eg. everyone seemed to become quite friendly about 2 weeks prior) that was the tipping point which made a group go for a "two-fer".

(02-22-2011, 05:20 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 04:55 PM)ToledoNative Wrote: Some of you are wondering about who to believe - the police or the family - as to whether Lisa's car was parked in the garage or driveway...

The police say garage. It is their job to take careful notes of a crime scene. The family was hysterical at the time. Let's go with what the police say.

Also, I do think it is important to know where the car was parked and if the garage door was open. From all reports, it seems the garage was open, which would make sense if you planned on not being home very long.

The police were there three times. Does that mean that the same
car was in the same spot on all three investigations?

I would say yes?

The police are trained to notice things. If the license plate on the car had changed, I would think they would have noticed.

HOWEVER...remember on the 911 tapes when Maytee is adament about the dispatcher getting Tiffany's license plate number down?

But, I take this as Maytee really believing that Tiffany was directly involved. And someone involved having a car so similar to Lisa's that the trained police didn't even notice that they got switch out is just too far fetched for me. Once again, just my opinion.

(02-22-2011, 05:19 PM)ToledoNative Wrote: Has anybody thought about the fact that Lisa was more wounded than Johnny?

Usually blood and wounds are a sign of a fight and yet Lisa was the bloody one. Because she fought harder? Nope.

Were the intruders either punishing Johnny (maybe for not paying back a drug debt or snitching or something) by making him watch them hurting, raping, etc. Lisa OR were they doing these things to Lisa to get Johnny to talk and give them information about something (where a safe is, what the combination is, where drugs are, the list could go on and on)?

that's exactly how I think it went down, IF it's true, that Lisa was injured much worse than Johnny. We've heard 3 rumors of what might have happened to Lisa. Raped, hit with a baseball bat, & her tongue being injured in some way ... I think the rumor may very well be true, that Johnny had bragged about a safe being in the home.

(02-22-2011, 05:21 PM)lawheeze Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 02:34 PM)Freshbait78 Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 01:20 PM)notsure Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 10:15 AM)Freshbait78 Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 08:59 AM)onefortheroad Wrote: This is really baffling .... Tiff supposedly called Johnny's best friend's girlfriend first (Sherita/Shareda/Sharita/?), who wouldn't give her Maytee's number - can that be true? and if it is, why wouldn't she give her the number? Tiff can't be given the number for some unknown reason so Maytee has to find out from someone else indirectly, yet John Sr asks Tiff to drive him to the house. Why did he do that? How did he know her friend's mom would be home from work by then and she would have access to a car? Doesn't he have a car himself? How well did Tiff and Johnny's parents know each other? And how did they know each other? Were they friends, or only casual acquaintances - if so, how? Also, who was Johnny's best friend? I thought Ruben or Reuben was his name, but why hasn't his name come up again since?

1. why wouldn't she give her the number? I've had people call me & ask for a someones #. I don't give it out until I check with the the person who's # is being requested.

2. yet John Sr asks Tiff to drive him to the house. Why did he do that? Per Tiffanys testimony, after sharita calls Maytee, John Sr. calls Tiffany. Tiffany rehashes the story, tells John Sr she's going back by there & asks if he wants a ride. He accepts.

3. How did he know her friend's mom would be home from work by then and she would have access to a car? She was already out driving around. Per Tiffanys testimony, she had already been over to the Straubs to check out the scene before calling anyone to alert them of anything.

4. Doesn't he have a car himself? I cannot confirm nor deny that I've heard something about them having a van somewhere in this thread... I don't know where.

5. How well did Tiff and Johnny's parents know each other? And how did they know each other? Were they friends, or only casual acquaintances - if so, how? It sounded to me as if they did not know eachother prior to this incident.

6. who was Johnny's best friend? I've heard Rueben. I tried to look him up on FB after Ruebens mom posted on JCs online funeral registry but did not find any match. Apparently not everyone in the city has a FB. Same goes for a Sharita, nothing. I also used various spellings.

Freshbait, got a question i would like your input on. I feel tiff is in a "a few good men" logic loop. As a reminder of the movie nicholson's character says the victim was in danger, and that men take matters into their own hands, then later says that no one would defy his own order to not touch the victim. Applying this to our case here we have two options:

1) If we believe tiff heard johnny yelling and fighting with someone while she was on the phone then why go over there like shes going to save the day (wonder woman?) and why wait 2 fucking hours to get some real help about it.

2) if we believe tiff heard johnny casually say "I will call you back" then why the need to panick. they arent answering phones, so what.! so your going to drive 20 minutes to see why.? maybe they just decided to do something else and didn't want to include her. They arent answering the door, again so what. they didn't go back to your house, so what. these things don't then require someone to raise the alarm and wake everyone up to go over there and kick in doors. these things alone aren't indicators of foul play. hence why cops didn't enter the residence. Everyone starts to panick b/c a call isn't answered in the middle of the night.? shit they could have just been sleeping and turned off the ringer/ phone.

This goes back to my first gut reaction, someone who was trying to get help for the victims knew of a real danger, something beyond just missed phone calls, something beyond what was on the surface, to start reacting to a phone call ignored. my question is, what could that real know imminent danger be? or is it all a bs set up with fake phone calls etc.

Thus the bullshit logic loop. It doesn't seem it can really be option 1 or 2. it doesn't seem to make a bit of logical sense and when you go back and forth between options 1 and 2 you realize that at some point in this narrative there is a point where the story crumbles. your thought?

My thoughts are this: I don't believe the phone call happened the way it's been said that it did. So in my mind, the whole "Who are you?" "What are you doing?" "What do you want?" With or without "bro" thrown in there, is irrelevant. I do believe there was a phone call, I do believe this was a set up which took multiple people to carry out. This is kinda how I see it played out, in my mind. I'm don't mean to implicate anyone as of yet. This is just MY THEORY:

Johnny is at VDs house with BA just before he has to leave to get Lisa from work. They had just started hanging out again from what VD has stated publicly. Johnny leaves to get Lisa, a phone call is made that he has left & where he's headed. Tiffany calls Johnny at around 11. We know this, what we don't know for fact is what was said on the phone call. I believe the phone call was made to find out his exact location & what exactly he was doing. There may have also been some stalling. Maybe the 1^st time Tiffany called he wasn't home yet so she called back again to find out if he was home yet. (In her version this would have been when she called him back to tell him she was going to the store, this is also why I don't think it was ever intended for Johnny to pick her up) I believe who ever was to do the invasion was with Tiffany that night prior to the invasion. I think it's possible they were dropped off there at the Straubs. I think it's possible that Tiffany went to pick them up when it was done. This would account for Tiffany being there. For anyone who says Why didn't anyone see Tiffany there picking up a group of people: If this was a 3 car garage maybe she pulled into one of the spots in the gargae to load up her passangers? Also Tiffany states that she drove back by her house to see if they had left to pick her up. This could be when Tiffany drops off the people involved. While making her stop at home she calls Sherita and says "OMG I think somethings happened to Johnny I heard XYZ so I went over to the house & saw XYZ... do you think I should call his Mom?" This covers her on why she made the initial phone call to Johnny twice & why she was at the house ringing the door bell (Which could have also been a que to let the perps know it was her there to pick them up. Kinda like I'll ring the door bell 5 times & knock twice) They would not want to use cell phones knowing that they can be traced with pings & call logs. This wasn't for robbery, I think it was staged to look that way OR if it was for robbery it was secondary & it was drugs they wanted or if I really want to stretch it I could even say that the drug periphenalia found was planted. How hard is it to carry little pieces of platic bag in your pocket?

That's about all I've got so far & I may even tweek it a little here & there but I think everyone gets my idea.

My thoughts lean in this direction as well. It could have been the combination of rumors of a safe plus a highly anticipated fresh delivery of a large quantity of a drug product (eg. everyone seemed to become quite friendly about 2 weeks prior) that was the tipping point which made a group go for a "two-fer".

Very interesting and new concept.
1. Are you saying that Johnny and Lisa might be bringing home the fresh delivery?

2. Has Tiff's car been picked up for processing? They did say there was alot of blood.

My thoughts lean in this direction as well. It could have been the combination of rumors of a safe plus a highly anticipated fresh delivery of a large quantity of a drug product (eg. everyone seemed to become quite friendly about 2 weeks prior) that was the tipping point which made a group go for a "two-fer".

[/quote]

Interesting....Brag about having access to a large amount of money....establish this belief in the drug community so a bigger supplier (a higher up) is willing to front you more product. Have the "diggies" ready so the person who "connected you up" gets their reward. Then plan for the "DEAL" to take place while LS parents are away. Then get betrayed...instead of the deal you get shafted.

(02-22-2011, 05:33 PM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 05:21 PM)lawheeze Wrote:

'lawheeze'

My thoughts lean in this direction as well. It could have been the combination of rumors of a safe plus a highly anticipated fresh delivery of a large quantity of a drug product (eg. everyone seemed to become quite friendly about 2 weeks prior) that was the tipping point which made a group go for a "two-fer".

Thanks 'lawheeze'

Interesting....Brag about having access to a large amount of money....establish this belief in the drug community so a bigger supplier (a higher up) is willing to front you more product. Have the "diggies" ready so the person who "connected you up" gets their reward. Then plan for the "DEAL" to take place while LS parents are away. Then get betrayed...instead of the deal you get shafted.
[/quote]

zero

I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW what SCAM Johnny's parents tried to pull on
the Straubs. Oh, would I love to know.

(02-22-2011, 05:35 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW what SCAM Johnny's parents tried to pull on
the Straubs. Oh, would I love to know.

if true.
there was a civil suit i think, but i cannot substantiate it.

(02-22-2011, 05:35 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW what SCAM Johnny's parents tried to pull on
the Straubs. Oh, would I love to know.

Another rumor, but I wouldn't be shocked to find out it was true. I don't think Maytee really liked Lisa all that much. Just a feeling. JMO

(02-22-2011, 05:33 PM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 05:21 PM)lawheeze Wrote:

My thoughts lean in this direction as well. It could have been the combination of rumors of a safe plus a highly anticipated fresh delivery of a large quantity of a drug product (eg. everyone seemed to become quite friendly about 2 weeks prior) that was the tipping point which made a group go for a "two-fer".

Interesting....Brag about having access to a large amount of money....establish this belief in the drug community so a bigger supplier (a higher up) is willing to front you more product. Have the "diggies" ready so the person who "connected you up" gets their reward. Then plan for the "DEAL" to take place while LS parents are away. Then get betrayed...instead of the deal you get shafted.
[/quote]


Now that is how it goes down in Toledo alot of the time.

I actually know someone who had something similar happen.

(02-22-2011, 05:39 PM)Lady Cop Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 05:35 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW what SCAM Johnny's parents tried to pull on
the Straubs. Oh, would I love to know.

if true.
there was a civil suit i think, but i cannot substantiate it.

aaaaah, interesting

Correct me if I am wrong.

The police said there were no injuries other than the smothering.
The neighbor said his friend or neighbor cleaned up the house and there
was blood all over.
Whose blood? And how did it get all over if Lisa and Johnny didnt have
any on them?

(02-22-2011, 05:41 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Correct me if I am wrong.

The police said there were no injuries other than the smothering.
The neighbor said his friend or neighbor cleaned up the house and there
was blood all over.
Whose blood? And how did it get all over if Lisa and Johnny didnt have
any on them?

there are UNSUBSTANTIATED RUMORS about blood all over, and that it could be the killers' blood.

(02-22-2011, 05:41 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Correct me if I am wrong.

The police said there were no injuries other than the smothering.
The neighbor said his friend or neighbor cleaned up the house and there
was blood all over.
Whose blood? And how did it get all over if Lisa and Johnny didnt have
any on them?

Remember there was a dog or pup could have walked through it nothing said about it but it is a thought.Dog could have been injured also but nothing much said about it.

(02-22-2011, 05:41 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Correct me if I am wrong.

The police said there were no injuries other than the smothering.
The neighbor said his friend or neighbor cleaned up the house and there
was blood all over.
Whose blood? And how did it get all over if Lisa and Johnny didnt have
any on them?

It's been speculated that maybe Johnny injured one of the perps. Maybe cutting that person with a knife ?? I have to believe Johnny put up a hard fight, one way or the other, before he was subdued.

(02-22-2011, 05:40 PM)Jane Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 05:39 PM)Lady Cop Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 05:35 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW what SCAM Johnny's parents tried to pull on
the Straubs. Oh, would I love to know.

if true.
there was a civil suit i think, but i cannot substantiate it.

aaaaah, interesting

If writers were to sit down and fabricate a story I doubt if they
would ever get all these variables. It is astounding. Or I have
lived a too sheltered life. :O:O