Well said Freshbait78 & I agree with you 100%!!
[/quote]



I agree...to infinity n beyond.

I was just re-reading some of the earlier articles to refresh my mind's eye.

In the very early articles, the police were theorizing that the motive was robbery. Now, the police believe Lisa and Johnny's actions instigated their own deaths which we are interpeting as meaning he/they were involved in the drug trade.

I'm guessing the new LE theory took shape because of interviews with Johnny and Lisa's family and friends. Not sure if a robber is more or less difficult to find than a crazed killer drug dealer or druggie.

(03-07-2011, 12:52 AM)AriGold Wrote: Well said Freshbait78 & I agree with you 100%!!

I agree...to infinity n beyond.



[/quote]

Many thanks to both of you handsome fellars, Mote be it

So here's another question for you--why wasn't the house burned down?

That would have many advantages: concealment of the crime scene, greatly impeding what evidence might have been found there at the house and even though the fire department would have been called, presumably the perps would still have had plenty of time to get away after the fire was set because no one would have realized a crime had been committed until the bodies were found.

Burning down the Straub house would have made a lot of sense so why wasn't it burned down? Think like a criminal profiler...there has to be a reason why it was not, especially if Johnny were on the phone and presumably the perps knew it if he were on the phone.

So what about the thought that the crime was not related to Johnny at all? The purported drug material was out because Johnny and Lisa had done drugs that day--scales, plastic bag corners, lighter...but Lisa had just gotten off from work.

What if a perv had followed Lisa and Johnny home and had been stalking Lisa all along? The perv subdues them; ties them up and assaults Lisa. There is a suggestion here that she was sexually assaulted and LE has not publicly stated, to my knowledge, that she was NOT sexually assaulted. To bargain for their lives, Lisa and Johnny tell what they know about money/jewelry in Lisa's parents bedroom and the attacker takes out some frustration by knocking a few holes in the walls or is looking for a wall-mounted safe. Robbery is obviously not the motive but a stalker with something else on his mind could provide an alternate motive that is not drug-related.

Of course if it were a stalker, that leaves me thinking one person since she was not obviously raped...and I still do not think one person acting alone did this.

(03-07-2011, 02:15 AM)van64 Wrote: So here's another question for you--why wasn't the house burned down?

That would have many advantages: concealment of the crime scene, greatly impeding what evidence might have been found there at the house and even though the fire department would have been called, presumably the perps would still have had plenty of time to get away after the fire was set because no one would have realized a crime had been committed until the bodies were found.

Burning down the Straub house would have made a lot of sense so why wasn't it burned down? Think like a criminal profiler...there has to be a reason why it was not, especially if Johnny were on the phone and presumably the perps knew it if he were on the phone.

Had the house been burned down it would not have had the same effect the killer(s) - I assume - intended.

I believe the manner in which they were killed was deliberate and meant to send a strong message. And it did.

Had the house burned down, we probably wouldn't even be discussing this case right now.

Theatricality is a powerful agent.

(03-07-2011, 02:36 AM)AriGold Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:15 AM)van64 Wrote: So here's another question for you--why wasn't the house burned down?

That would have many advantages: concealment of the crime scene, greatly impeding what evidence might have been found there at the house and even though the fire department would have been called, presumably the perps would still have had plenty of time to get away after the fire was set because no one would have realized a crime had been committed until the bodies were found.

Burning down the Straub house would have made a lot of sense so why wasn't it burned down? Think like a criminal profiler...there has to be a reason why it was not, especially if Johnny were on the phone and presumably the perps knew it if he were on the phone.

Had the house been burned down it would not have had the same effect the killer(s) - I assume - intended.

I believe the manner in which they were killed was deliberate and meant to send a strong message. And it did.

Had the house burned down, we probably wouldn't even be discussing this case right now.

Theatricality is a powerful agent.

That is a good point that the house could have not been burned down in order to get a message across BUT THEN that also begs the question why are the perps so sure that they will not be caught? Burning down the house, which would have the same end result--Johnny and Lisa are dead either way--would greatly impede LE's investigation into the case. It could very easily go into a cold case mode then. There would have been no way to obtain DNA then.

(03-07-2011, 02:36 AM)AriGold Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:15 AM)van64 Wrote: So here's another question for you--why wasn't the house burned down?

That would have many advantages: concealment of the crime scene, greatly impeding what evidence might have been found there at the house and even though the fire department would have been called, presumably the perps would still have had plenty of time to get away after the fire was set because no one would have realized a crime had been committed until the bodies were found.

Burning down the Straub house would have made a lot of sense so why wasn't it burned down? Think like a criminal profiler...there has to be a reason why it was not, especially if Johnny were on the phone and presumably the perps knew it if he were on the phone.

Had the house been burned down it would not have had the same effect the killer(s) - I assume - intended.

I believe the manner in which they were killed was deliberate and meant to send a strong message. And it did.

Had the house burned down, we probably wouldn't even be discussing this case right now.

Theatricality is a powerful agent.

And who exactly are we sending a message out to? We're assuming Johnny criss-crossed a drug dealer or that he was robbed for drugs but then there is extensive evidence in the Straub bedroom that the perps looked for a safe to the point of knocking holes in the wall. Did LE find what the perps used to knock holes in the wall? If a message was being sent from drug dealers to someone else out there, were the drug dealers or the dealer's muscle getting a two-fer by looking for a hidden safe? That doesn't make sense.

Here is part of Maytee's interview with Jane Velez-Mitchell...Maytee seems to think too it is all about Lisa. Possibly Lisa's ex boyfriend who just got out of jail. Wow she liked those jail-bird boys didn't she? If he is that jealous he comes over and whacks them both but that still doesn't explain what he would be doing in the bedroom poking holes in the wall.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think he had any enemies? That`s all I`m trying to figure out.

VAZQUEZ: No, he did not have any enemies. And actually, Lisa`s boyfriend was in prison for robbery and just got out of prison a couple months ago.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes...

VAZQUEZ: Lisa`s ex-boyfriend was in prison for robbery. Yes, my son, no, he didn`t have any enemies. This has nothing to do with my son.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, OK.

VAZQUEZ: She would be more connected to this than my son would.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s...

VAZQUEZ: These people knew...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.

VAZQUEZ: These people knew her and they knew how to get into her house.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Can we rewind and take a...

VAZQUEZ: My son did not live there.

(03-07-2011, 02:42 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:36 AM)AriGold Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:15 AM)van64 Wrote: So here's another question for you--why wasn't the house burned down?

That would have many advantages: concealment of the crime scene, greatly impeding what evidence might have been found there at the house and even though the fire department would have been called, presumably the perps would still have had plenty of time to get away after the fire was set because no one would have realized a crime had been committed until the bodies were found.

Burning down the Straub house would have made a lot of sense so why wasn't it burned down? Think like a criminal profiler...there has to be a reason why it was not, especially if Johnny were on the phone and presumably the perps knew it if he were on the phone.

Had the house been burned down it would not have had the same effect the killer(s) - I assume - intended.

I believe the manner in which they were killed was deliberate and meant to send a strong message. And it did.

Had the house burned down, we probably wouldn't even be discussing this case right now.

Theatricality is a powerful agent.

That is a good point that the house could have not been burned down in order to get a message across BUT THEN that also begs the question why are the perps so sure that they will not be caught? Burning down the house, which would have the same end result--Johnny and Lisa are dead either way--would greatly impede LE's investigation into the case. It could very easily go into a cold case mode then. There would have been no way to obtain DNA then.

You might also take into account the response time of emergency personal (police, fire, etc) to a fire. Once the fire is lit, it wouldn't take long for someone to notice and call 911. This greatly limits their escape time and risks them getting caught as they might drive right past first responders and be noticed.

Furthermore, they had an advanced security system in the house that would presumably dial 911 if smoke/fire was detected.

As it stands, they may have been gone hours before the bodies were noticed.

(03-07-2011, 02:48 AM)van64 Wrote:

Here is part of Maytee's interview with Jane Velez-Mitchell...Maytee seems to think too it is all about Lisa. Possibly Lisa's ex boyfriend who just got out of jail. Wow she liked those jail-bird boys didn't she? If he is that jealous he comes over and whacks them both but that still doesn't explain what he would be doing in the bedroom poking holes in the wall.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think he had any enemies? That`s all I`m trying to figure out.

VAZQUEZ: No, he did not have any enemies. And actually, Lisa`s boyfriend was in prison for robbery and just got out of prison a couple months ago.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes...

VAZQUEZ: Lisa`s ex-boyfriend was in prison for robbery. Yes, my son, no, he didn`t have any enemies. This has nothing to do with my son.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, OK.

VAZQUEZ: She would be more connected to this than my son would.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s...

VAZQUEZ: These people knew...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.

VAZQUEZ: These people knew her and they knew how to get into her house.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Can we rewind and take a...

VAZQUEZ: My son did not live there.

Crap, crap, crap.

Just projection and transference; she's trying to take the focus off her son and any negative aspects of his life/background.

You might also take into account the response time of emergency personal (police, fire, etc) to a fire. Once the fire is lit, it wouldn't take long for someone to notice and call 911. This greatly limits their escape time and risks them getting caught as they might drive right past first responders and be noticed.

Furthermore, they had an advanced security system in the house that would presumably dial 911 if smoke/fire was detected.

As it stands, they may have been gone hours before the bodies were noticed.
[/quote]I thought the wires to the security system were cut? If you were going to burn the house down, you could always disarm the security system prior to killing Johnny and Lisa...and once the fire is lit yes it does burn quickly and alerts the neighbors immediately, but until the fire is out or under control, firefighters will not know there are bodies inside--and once the bodies are found, firefighters will assume not that they have been killed but that they were overcome with smoke inhalation.

In fact, setting a fire and burning the house down would have provided DAYS and days for the perps to flee. As it was they only had a six hour or so headstart but apparently that's all they needed.

I will say this--in rereading the articles, LE doesn't have a clue. Not a clue.

(03-07-2011, 02:58 AM)AriGold Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:48 AM)van64 Wrote:

Here is part of Maytee's interview with Jane Velez-Mitchell...Maytee seems to think too it is all about Lisa. Possibly Lisa's ex boyfriend who just got out of jail. Wow she liked those jail-bird boys didn't she? If he is that jealous he comes over and whacks them both but that still doesn't explain what he would be doing in the bedroom poking holes in the wall.

Crap, crap, crap.

Just projection and transference; she's trying to take the focus off her son and any negative aspects of his life/background.

A crazy ex would explain why both Johnny and Lisa were killed but wouldn't, at least in my mind, explain the holes punched in the walk-in closet.

Instead of 48 hours with no arrest, we're rocking on 48 days.

(03-07-2011, 03:04 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:55 AM)AriGold Wrote:

You might also take into account the response time of emergency personal (police, fire, etc) to a fire. Once the fire is lit, it wouldn't take long for someone to notice and call 911. This greatly limits their escape time and risks them getting caught as they might drive right past first responders and be noticed.

Furthermore, they had an advanced security system in the house that would presumably dial 911 if smoke/fire was detected.

As it stands, they may have been gone hours before the bodies were noticed.

I thought the wires to the security system were cut? If you were going to burn the house down, you could always disarm the security system prior to killing Johnny and Lisa...and once the fire is lit yes it does burn quickly and alerts the neighbors immediately, but until the fire is out or under control, firefighters will not know there are bodies inside--and once the bodies are found, firefighters will assume not that they have been killed but that they were overcome with smoke inhalation.

In fact, setting a fire and burning the house down would have provided DAYS and days for the perps to flee. As it was they only had a six hour or so headstart but apparently that's all they needed.

I will say this--in rereading the articles, LE doesn't have a clue. Not a clue.


[/quote]

The wires cut is not confirmed -- even if they were cut it doesn't necessary mean other aspects of the system (fire alarms, sprinklers, etc) would also be disabled.

Granted, LE didn't know about the bodies yet, but that doesn't diminish the fact a fire would attract A LOT of attention -- quickly. The whole neighborhood would be alert and that would increase the likelihood of them being noticed as they fled.

Again, they might have drove right past a responding vehicle and while at that moment no one was aware of a murder, after-wards they might recall a vehicle they passed or something. After all, it was late and not a lot of people would be out. What if a police cruiser's on-board dash cam caught the getaway vehicle...

I just think it would have been too risky and too much could have gone wrong.

(03-07-2011, 03:13 AM)AriGold Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 03:04 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:55 AM)AriGold Wrote:

You might also take into account the response time of emergency personal (police, fire, etc) to a fire. Once the fire is lit, it wouldn't take long for someone to notice and call 911. This greatly limits their escape time and risks them getting caught as they might drive right past first responders and be noticed.

Furthermore, they had an advanced security system in the house that would presumably dial 911 if smoke/fire was detected.

As it stands, they may have been gone hours before the bodies were noticed.

I thought the wires to the security system were cut? If you were going to burn the house down, you could always disarm the security system prior to killing Johnny and Lisa...and once the fire is lit yes it does burn quickly and alerts the neighbors immediately, but until the fire is out or under control, firefighters will not know there are bodies inside--and once the bodies are found, firefighters will assume not that they have been killed but that they were overcome with smoke inhalation.

In fact, setting a fire and burning the house down would have provided DAYS and days for the perps to flee. As it was they only had a six hour or so headstart but apparently that's all they needed.

I will say this--in rereading the articles, LE doesn't have a clue. Not a clue.

The wires cut is not confirmed -- even if they were cut it doesn't necessary mean other aspects of the system (fire alarms, sprinklers, etc) would also be disabled.

Granted, LE didn't know about the bodies yet, but that doesn't diminish the fact a fire would attract A LOT of attention -- quickly. The whole neighborhood would be alert and that would increase the likelihood of them being noticed as they fled.

Again, they might have drove right past a responding vehicle and while at that moment no one was aware of a murder, after-wards they might recall a vehicle they passed or something. After all, it was late and not a lot of people would be out. What if a police cruiser's on-board dash cam caught the getaway vehicle...

I just think it would have been too risky and too much could have gone wrong.





[/quote]There has been almost no discussion regarding how the perps purportedly got away has there? Someone initially mentioned a white van but LE has not put out a public plea (presumably since LE there has it under control) for a description of an automobile or anything. TW didn't see anything out of the way when she went out to check on them an hour or two later and I'm thinking it took a few hours to do all this--subdue, debrief, look for a safe, kill...even if you have everything like that lined up and you know pretty much what is going to go down, it's going to take a few hours to execute all that. I think this would have been one of those instances where you look at your watch and you're like wow, time sure does fly.

(03-07-2011, 03:06 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:58 AM)AriGold Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:48 AM)van64 Wrote:

Here is part of Maytee's interview with Jane Velez-Mitchell...Maytee seems to think too it is all about Lisa. Possibly Lisa's ex boyfriend who just got out of jail. Wow she liked those jail-bird boys didn't she? If he is that jealous he comes over and whacks them both but that still doesn't explain what he would be doing in the bedroom poking holes in the wall.

Crap, crap, crap.

Just projection and transference; she's trying to take the focus off her son and any negative aspects of his life/background.

A crazy ex would explain why both Johnny and Lisa were killed but wouldn't, at least in my mind, explain the holes punched in the walk-in closet.

It was noted that LS's ex was at her funeral. I'm sure he's been interviewed out the ass and cleared.

Crimes of passion are not usually done this way. This was more methodical.

(03-07-2011, 03:18 AM)AriGold Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 03:06 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:58 AM)AriGold Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:48 AM)van64 Wrote:

Here is part of Maytee's interview with Jane Velez-Mitchell...Maytee seems to think too it is all about Lisa. Possibly Lisa's ex boyfriend who just got out of jail. Wow she liked those jail-bird boys didn't she? If he is that jealous he comes over and whacks them both but that still doesn't explain what he would be doing in the bedroom poking holes in the wall.

Crap, crap, crap.

Just projection and transference; she's trying to take the focus off her son and any negative aspects of his life/background.

A crazy ex would explain why both Johnny and Lisa were killed but wouldn't, at least in my mind, explain the holes punched in the walk-in closet.

It was noted that LS's ex was at her funeral. I'm sure he's been interviewed out the ass and cleared.

Crimes of passion are not usually done this way. This was more methodical.

Good point about the ex of Lisa's being at her funeral. I'm sure LE has hounded him to death. You know the only thing I have arrived at in reading and re-reading the articles from January to a week or so ago is that LE's opinion on what has happened has changed...and changed again...and changed again. Which leads me to believe LE simply has nothing to work with or to go on. There might be DNA...there SHOULD BE DNA but it is entirely possible the perps DNA is not in the database and it is entirely possible that no DNA was left. I think someone mentioned the perps DNA was left in blood in the kitchen, possibly where Johnny had knifed him. Barring this, the hope is for DNA in fingerprints on the duct tape's sticky side or shiney side. It is possible to work with duct tape if you wear rawhide gloves. Duct tape is going to stick, and stick like glue, on any smooth surface.

(03-07-2011, 03:17 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 03:13 AM)AriGold Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 03:04 AM)van64 Wrote:

(03-07-2011, 02:55 AM)AriGold Wrote:

You might also take into account the response time of emergency personal (police, fire, etc) to a fire. Once the fire is lit, it wouldn't take long for someone to notice and call 911. This greatly limits their escape time and risks them getting caught as they might drive right past first responders and be noticed.

Furthermore, they had an advanced security system in the house that would presumably dial 911 if smoke/fire was detected.

As it stands, they may have been gone hours before the bodies were noticed.

I thought the wires to the security system were cut? If you were going to burn the house down, you could always disarm the security system prior to killing Johnny and Lisa...and once the fire is lit yes it does burn quickly and alerts the neighbors immediately, but until the fire is out or under control, firefighters will not know there are bodies inside--and once the bodies are found, firefighters will assume not that they have been killed but that they were overcome with smoke inhalation.

In fact, setting a fire and burning the house down would have provided DAYS and days for the perps to flee. As it was they only had a six hour or so headstart but apparently that's all they needed.

I will say this--in rereading the articles, LE doesn't have a clue. Not a clue.

The wires cut is not confirmed -- even if they were cut it doesn't necessary mean other aspects of the system (fire alarms, sprinklers, etc) would also be disabled.

Granted, LE didn't know about the bodies yet, but that doesn't diminish the fact a fire would attract A LOT of attention -- quickly. The whole neighborhood would be alert and that would increase the likelihood of them being noticed as they fled.

Again, they might have drove right past a responding vehicle and while at that moment no one was aware of a murder, after-wards they might recall a vehicle they passed or something. After all, it was late and not a lot of people would be out. What if a police cruiser's on-board dash cam caught the getaway vehicle...

I just think it would have been too risky and too much could have gone wrong.

There has been almost no discussion regarding how the perps purportedly got away has there? Someone initially mentioned a white van but LE has not put out a public plea (presumably since LE there has it under control) for a description of an automobile or anything. TW didn't see anything out of the way when she went out to check on them an hour or two later and I'm thinking it took a few hours to do all this--subdue, debrief, look for a safe, kill...even if you have everything like that lined up and you know pretty much what is going to go down, it's going to take a few hours to execute all that. I think this would have been one of those instances where you look at your watch and you're like wow, time sure does fly.


[/quote]

I don't think they parked a vehicle out front. Again, too risky. Too many variables (nosy neighbor or something). They could have parked elsewhere and walked there. I remember hearing there was a school behind the house somewhere. They could have parked there and walked over. If dressed in black, it'd be unlikely for anyone to notice them or hear any noise. The lot the house sits on is pretty big according to Google Maps.

Also, I don't think they came with the safe in mind. The "safe" might have been brought up by either JC or LS as a means of bargaining for the life.

All the same -- depending on how long the struggle (if any) lasted, they could have been in and out in 30 min max.

For example:

5 min struggle (and if you've ever been in a fight, you know 5 min is a LONG time; it feels like hours).

5 min to tie them up (if they came prepared with materials and with multiple people, this shouldn't even take that long)

10 minutes to search house (look for safe, disable security system, etc)

10 minutes to clean up and get the fuck out.

Keep in mind, it only takes about 6 minutes to die from lack of air.

I don't think they parked a vehicle out front. Again, too risky. Too many variables (nosy neighbor or something). They could have parked elsewhere and walked there. I remember hearing there was a school behind the house somewhere. They could have parked there and walked over. If dressed in black, it'd be unlikely for anyone to notice them or hear any noise. The lot the house sits on is pretty big according to Google Maps.

Also, I don't think they came with the safe in mind. The "safe" might have been brought up by either JC or LS as a means of bargaining for the life.

All the same -- depending on how long the struggle (if any) lasted, they could have been in and out in 30 min max.

For example:

5 min struggle (and if you've ever been in a fight, you know 5 min is a LONG time; it feels like hours).

5 min to tie them up (if they came prepared with materials and with multiple people, this shouldn't even take that long)

10 minutes to search house (look for safe, disable security system, etc)

10 minutes to clean up and get the fuck out.

Keep in mind, it only takes about 6 minutes to die from lack of air.



[/quote]That is an interesting perspective. I'm sure the perps would not have wanted to linger in the house. Not at all. It also just seems that the perps knew Johnny and Lisa would be there alone...and we're back to TW having had a hand in what went down that cold night in January. But now didn't she set up another group in pretty much a robbery gone bad?