(06-09-2011, 12:30 PM)Maggot Wrote: Barry will never take any responsibility. But he WILL take the credit for anything.

I find it terribly shocking that a politician would do that.

(06-09-2011, 05:58 PM)crash Wrote: So in those two statements, you don't even believe it yourself? In one sentence you say they want to change, in the next you say it won't because it'll take a revolution, which by definition means the majority want a change...

Sure I'll admit the 80% in the middle don't want the Taliban fucking them over anymore, but they're sick to death of you guys over there fucking it up too...

I do love the justification shifts along the way though; first it was all about WMDs, then it was building a better Middle East, now it's protecting your oil interests and building a better world...

Who is going to change it, crash? It's been a few thousand years. Who? Should we just walk away?

We have domestic oil. People forget that. And we now recover oil from the ice sheets. I'm sure there are other ways (squeezing shale, etc) for us get our daily fill of oil besides the crude oil from the Middle East.

You have your mind made up. You see one thing and that's all you are willing to see. You can narrow your view as much as you want, no matter to me. You even made up your own definition for "revolution."

I see it differently. Maybe because I have a vested interest or maybe because I actually read different sources and keep up with recent events. Or maybe because I don't have my mind made up already. Who knows, maybe your ten-year-old static view is correct.

(06-09-2011, 05:58 PM)crash Wrote: I do love the justification shifts along the way though; first it was all about WMDs, then it was building a better Middle East, now it's protecting your oil interests and building a better world...

Protecting OUR oil interests? The largest importer of oil to the US is Canada.

If you argue "protecting global corporate interests", count me in.

The "your oil" rhetoric is old and tired.

BTW - If memory serves me, Australia domestically produces 70 -75% of their oil needs. Again, this is from memory.

Who supplies the oil to fill the deficit?

From our DoD:

FORWARD OPERATING BASE MARJAH, Afghanistan - New methods of learning and teaching Afghans essential skills, to build businesses and stimulate their economy, are slated to arrive in Marjah within the next two months.

Marines from Company K, 3^rd Battalion, 9^th Marine Regiment, in conjunction with the ³⁄₉ civil affairs group, are currently working to turn empty bazaar areas into new vocational technical schools.

These schools are the innovation of ³⁄₉ Marines that began in December 2010, and will provide courses such as masonry, carpentry, automobile mechanics, motorcycle mechanics and construction to further the skillsets of Afghan citizens.

“Eventually the security situation here is going to get better,” said 1^st Lt. Jason B. Hibler, the weapons platoon commander, Company K, 3/9, and a native of Joliet, Ill. “We’ve already opened up four little shops for vo-tech courses, and we’ve currently got Marines asking and looking around for potential teachers.”


“There are more than 1,200 Afghan police in Marjah right now and we’re trying to get more,” he said. “If the dynamic ever changes and there is less warfare and need for police, they can have these skills and classes to turn to in order to make a business that will thrive.”

I know the world wants us to be bastards, but we just aren't. That will be hard for a lot of people to give up. They may have to reevaluate the situation and realize the bastards are the ones sitting around bitching and doing as little as possible to help. They sometimes tell themselves the world doesn't want help to make themselves feel better, I guess.

Or you can just keep thinking we are bastards after everyone's oil. That works, too.

For the sake of discussion, how is Libya different? I could have sworn some of you that are (seemingly) advocating action for humanitarian reasons have also argued that we shouldn't have gotten involved in Libya.

(06-09-2011, 07:11 PM)BlueTiki Wrote:

(06-09-2011, 05:58 PM)crash Wrote: I do love the justification shifts along the way though; first it was all about WMDs, then it was building a better Middle East, now it's protecting your oil interests and building a better world...

Protecting OUR oil interests? The largest importer of oil to the US is Canada.

If you argue "protecting global corporate interests", count me in.

The "your oil" rhetoric is old and tired.

BTW - If memory serves me, Australia domestically produces 70 -75% of their oil needs. Again, this is from memory.

Who supplies the oil to fill the deficit?

Errm.. I didn't make the statement "protecting our oil interests".. play the ball, not the man, sweetie

(06-09-2011, 06:58 PM)Cracker Wrote: I see it differently. Maybe because I have a vested interest or maybe because I actually read different sources and keep up with recent events. Or maybe because I don't have my mind made up already. Who knows, maybe your ten-year-old static view is correct.

In some ways we're arguing the same point. I don't know what it will take to change it, I don't think anyone does, but I know what's happening now is not working.

I'm not too big of a person to admit that I am jaded with big oil; It's been my life, I've seen it's filthy greed driven side from the inside. I'm sure that does blinker my view somewhat...similar to your 'vested interest' in the middle east conflict...

Fair enough you get tired of everyone 'hating on' America and all that it is, I get that. But I don't hate all America is and all Americans. I've met more than my share, lived and worked in your country and still hold some American friends closest to my heart...

What I do hate is the justifacation of a purpose with bullshit by your government... I wonder why the big A never stepped into assist with the mass genocide in Rwanda in the mid nineties? Not much oil in Rwanda I guess...

One thing I will give Americans, even when your government throws out a thinly veiled excuse for something else, as Americans you will openly form two camps and argue like crap about it, but as soon as an 'outsider' points a finger, you instantly unify against the new 'threat'

(06-09-2011, 09:22 PM)crash Wrote: I'm not too big of a person to admit that I am jaded with big oil; It's been my life, I've seen it's filthy greed driven side from the inside. I'm sure that does blinker my view somewhat...similar to your 'vested interest' in the middle east conflict...

One thing I will give Americans, even when your government throws out a thinly veiled excuse for something else, as Americans you will openly form two camps and argue like crap about it, but as soon as an 'outsider' points a finger, you instantly unify against the new 'threat'

Perhaps you can provide an example of this fierce “circling the wagons” by me, when a non-American criticizes a subject presumed to be inimitably, “American”. Specifically, an example by me.

Play the ball? I play the statement. I responded to the “your oil” quip, contained in your post. Your nationality (documented or not) is at best, anecdotal.

However, your experience in the oil industry is relevant. I posed the question “Who provides the oil for Australia’s [oil consumption] deficit?” and it remains unanswered.

My guess is that it isn’t Rwanda.

Or Darfur.

(06-09-2011, 09:22 PM)crash Wrote: In some ways we're arguing the same point. I don't know what it will take to change it, I don't think anyone does, but I know what's happening now is not working.

I'm not too big of a person to admit that I am jaded with big oil; It's been my life, I've seen it's filthy greed driven side from the inside. I'm sure that does blinker my view somewhat...similar to your 'vested interest' in the middle east conflict...

Fair enough you get tired of everyone 'hating on' America and all that it is, I get that. But I don't hate all America is and all Americans. I've met more than my share, lived and worked in your country and still hold some American friends closest to my heart...

What I do hate is the justifacation of a purpose with bullshit by your government... I wonder why the big A never stepped into assist with the mass genocide in Rwanda in the mid nineties? Not much oil in Rwanda I guess...

One thing I will give Americans, even when your government throws out a thinly veiled excuse for something else, as Americans you will openly form two camps and argue like crap about it, but as soon as an 'outsider' points a finger, you instantly unify against the new 'threat'

I think we come together as a people because we all know the sad truth: Our government doesn't represent us. It isn't "a government for the people and by the people" anymore.

Half of Americans are decent, hard-working people. Same with our military. The other half are pieces of shit that we are stuck with. How do you get rid of those kinds of people? We just feed them and keep them like pets and show them on the news. The rest of us shake our heads and keep on working and trying to raise our kids to be decent people.

I used to think education would change the world, crash. I really did. I bought into it for a very long time. Now I don't know what will change the world. I think maybe the truth. And some fucking long overdue tough love.

(06-09-2011, 11:19 PM)Cracker Wrote: I think we come together as a people because we all know the sad truth: Our government doesn't represent us. It isn't "a government for the people and by the people" anymore.

Our government hasn't represented the people for a long, long time. Two party dictatorship. That's what we've got.

(06-09-2011, 11:19 PM)Cracker Wrote: Half of Americans are decent, hard-working people. Same with our military. The other half are pieces of shit that we are stuck with.

I think you could replace the 'Americans' in that statement to Australians, English. Pakistani, Iraqi, Fijian, Eskimo <insert country of choice here>... It's the unfortunate lot of the world at the moment.

(06-09-2011, 10:37 PM)BlueTiki Wrote: Perhaps you can provide an example of this fierce “circling the wagons” by me, when a non-American criticizes a subject presumed to be inimitably, “American”. Specifically, an example by me.

Play the ball? I play the statement. I responded to the “your oil” quip, contained in your post. Your nationality (documented or not) is at best, anecdotal.

However, your experience in the oil industry is relevant. I posed the question “Who provides the oil for Australia’s [oil consumption] deficit?” and it remains unanswered.

My guess is that it isn’t Rwanda.

Or Darfur.

My reply of 'your oil interests' was a quote from the original statement by Cracker; "We can protect our oil interests and at the same time try to help those people"

The unfortunate fact about Australia's fuel industry is that local refiniries cannot compete with the economies of scale of nearby Asian super refiniries. This is costing local jobs, but more worryingly, once the local assets are gone, they'll never be rebuilt or re-opened and we will be glued to the tit of one of the big four's supply line out of Asia, regardless of price. This is not due to our waning reserves, only the profit driven strategies of the industry. We still have the capability to be self sufficient in automotive fuels, but market pressure has made it uneconomical to do so.

The small percentage of oil that we cannot supply ourselves is in the heavier basestocks which are mainly used for finished lubricants. Australias crudes are only capable of lighter basestocks therefore the gap is filled from some of the West Texas crudes and Middle Eastern crudes, although the shift is now moving towards Africa (Angola et al). This is a problem typical of most Western countries though.

Thanks, cash.

China has now surpased the US in oil consupmtion (June 8, 2011 BP press release).

Perhaps they will now start sending their youth to foreign soils, protecting "the global corporate interests (the "big four")", and keep the crude flowing.

Maybe Mel Gibson is really a prophet . . . not just an anti-semite and a religious whacko.

Mad Max. This time in a Prius. Or on a Vespa.

Registered firearms, please.

Too bad China would eat Afghanistan.

Don't get me wrong, I have an intense hatred for the Taliban and like groups for what they have taken from me and people like me with their chickenshit explosive planting, suicide bombings, and hidden snipers. They don't stand and face the fighting. They aren't brave. They have no honor. They are hateful cowards who use terror to force people into their unnatural way of life. They aren't any better to each other than they are to us.

But there are good people over there. It's fucking hot there. Fucking hot. And there is little comfort and the work is hard and doesn't end in wealth. And little girls don't get to grow up to be the women they were meant to be. Half those people don't get to grow up at all. It would be nice for China to take over and make a better life for those people so our boys and girls, men and women could come home, but I just don't see that happening.

I wish the rest of the world would grow the fuck up. I get tired of it always having to be us. We can't afford it anymore.

$4.52 Arroyo Grande, California

Hiya, Doc! How's it hanging?

The U.S. supplies 75% of NATO financing. As Mr. Gates has said. I say drop NATO and get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged. Go Go Jo jo. Thats my fucking money bitches!

Jojo was a man who thought he was a loner
But he knew it couldn't last
Jojo left his home in Tucson, Arizona
For some California grass

Get back, get back
Get back to where you once belonged
Get back, get back
Get back to where you once belonged
Get back, Jojo
Go home

*shakes ass*

Well, I'll give ya this, Duchess...gas prices may be falling soon..but it's got nothing to do with the price of oil (or OPEC lowering it)..but instead it's Obama beginning his campaign to get re-elected

Story

p.s. Read the part where they talk about speculators..I think I ...ahem...mentioned that earlier in this thread. You might just get edjumacated.

Gas is $3.34 here right now. I hope it drops more.