I check Lucas Cty. booking every night. So, many familiar names. There's always at least 3 Williams, we've got a Pettaway, a couple Vasquez and Michael Middlebrooks. Why did we use to talk about him? Was he a friend of Aaron G?

(08-03-2012, 04:05 AM)Older Than Dirt Wrote: I check Lucas Cty. booking every night. So, many familiar names. There's always at least 3 Williams, we've got a Pettaway, a couple Vasquez and Michael Middlebrooks. Why did we use to talk about him? Was he a friend of Aaron G?

I don't recall Michael Middlebrooks being a friend of Aaron Griffins, he was talked about on Mock the US State Marshal was looking for Billy Cutcher his friend, he was wanted for robberies. Middlebrooks is like a revolving door, over and over he's back up for the same thing. Someone on Mock was suspicious of these two at one time. Glad your always checking.

(07-31-2012, 05:58 PM)NightOwl Wrote: Here's another charged with Prostitution mixed up with Michelle Wainwright and Sarah Rupert wonder if they got her DNA?



Esperanza Ledesma

FYI: during cross of Det. Kozak - said DNA-tested E.L. a few weeks before trial.

(08-03-2012, 09:55 AM)YourOtherLeft Wrote:

(07-31-2012, 05:58 PM)NightOwl Wrote: Here's another charged with Prostitution mixed up with Michelle Wainwright and Sarah Rupert wonder if they got her DNA?



Esperanza Ledesma

FYI: during cross of Det. Kozak - said DNA-tested E.L. a few weeks before trial.

Never dreamed we would find out answer! thank you! YourOtherLeft.

Maytee is still lying about the $75,000.00 reward. She also thinks no one is going to get away with their vile, evil deeds. Uh hello, someone already did. Bwahaha! He's free as a bird. That tard is a smart cookie. Howz dat for an oxymoron.

(08-02-2012, 06:09 PM)NightOwl Wrote: Hello Green Ribbon, just stop by any time and have a cup of tea! we missed you!

The Associated Press picks up a lot of stories.

I agree with you, Cameo was at the scene IMO.

Thanks Night Owl, your welcome is much appreciated!

I do have a couple of thoughts about the case that weren't answered by the trial though.

1. How come two not so bright (and one even classed as a retard!) perps managed not to leave any dna on either bodies in what was a nasty murder?

I do accept that as Lady Cop says, even if they didn't participate in the actual killings, their state law finds them equally culpable as those who did.

I am just suprised that their dna didn't show up, as I would have thought overpowering them, restraining them and hurting them would have left several possibilities for dna transfer.

2. Where did Destiny Madrid fit in, given that they held her for awhile? Or are we no longer able to discuss this Lady Cop, as there are no pending charges against her?

I thought I'd better ask this first before discussing her.

I'd be glad to hear other people's opinions on these points.

(08-02-2012, 11:00 PM)sharit Wrote: Thank You Green Ribbon

Your welcome!

(08-04-2012, 07:33 AM)Duchess Wrote:

Maytee is still lying about the $75,000.00 reward. She also thinks no one is going to get away with their vile, evil deeds. Uh hello, someone already did. Bwahaha! He's free as a bird. That tard is a smart cookie. Howz dat for an oxymoron.

From reading her fb page, I get the feeling that sometime in the future he will meet with an untimely accident. Given how she has behaved in court, I could honestly see her or a family member going after him.

One thing that really annoys me about her is that she has tried to make this tragedy all about her. Don't get me wrong, I do feel sympathy for her loss. No parent should have to bury their child, especially in such horrible circumstances.

However, her threats, rantings and attempts to make her loss seem greater than everyone elses grate on me IMHO. One thing that came out at the trial is the horrific images that her husband saw and has to deal with remembering, I'd bet nearly every time he closes his eyes. I haven't ever seen her mention his suffering, or acknowledge the Straubs suffering.

I think if a family member or a friend could talk her in to going for grief counselling, they'd be doing her a real favour. I can't imagine that she is in a very healthy place right now and it must be affecting the younger children and her husband.

She seems really irrational in a lot of her postings. Her outrage at Williams being dressed up nice by his counsel is unbelieveable. I can't find her posts now, but she was definitely ranting about Williams in his wrinkled shirt. With all due respect, she is no stranger to the justice system, she knows how the defence would scrub him up. Her calling Judge Bates a retard is unfair as well. I think he had little choice but to go with that verdict, as hard as it is to stomach. I don't think that he was fooled by Cameo at all, there just wasn't the conclusive evidence there to eliminate reasonable doubt.

I do feel bad about criticising her, but she does need help. Perhaps some of her apologists who come on here mouthing off at Mockers would be better served trying to convince Maytee to get decent grief counselling for the sake of her and her family's sanity. I don't say this lightly, I know someone who has never been able to move on from a tragic death over 20 years ago and it has ruined them. I'm not saying she should forget, but realise that life has to continue, however hard that may be, especially for the sake of her younger children.

Green: Where did Destiny Madrid fit in, given that they held her for awhile? Or are we no longer able to discuss this Lady Cop, as there are no pending charges against her?

I thought I'd better ask this first before discussing her.
----------------------------

thankyou.
since she was held for obstruction in this case, and this case is NOT over, there is no reason not to discuss your opinion and/or what little is known from official and media sources.

(08-04-2012, 02:17 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: thankyou.
since she was held for obstruction in this case, and this case is NOT over, there is no reason not to discuss your opinion and/or what little is known from official and media sources. [/b]

Thanks.

So "Obstruction" (and I'd forgotten what she was charged with, so thanks for the reminder LC) in US law is probably equivalent to what we call over here in the UK as "perverting the course of justice", I think?

IIRR, wasn't her bail set at a high figure at first, like half a million dollars. Is that usual in Capital Cases?

I'm thinking she probably provided a false alibi for either Williams or Pettaway.

Sorry about all the questions Mockers, but as I'm in England there are some differences in our legal systems, so I'm just trying to get it all set straight in my mind.

Wasnt it discussed before that she provided a false alibi for williams? She was one of his 'girlfriends' right? I could be wrong. So much has been discussed with this case maybe someone was just speculating at some point

(08-04-2012, 03:04 PM)Green Ribbon Wrote:

(08-04-2012, 02:17 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: thankyou.
since she was held for obstruction in this case, and this case is NOT over, there is no reason not to discuss your opinion and/or what little is known from official and media sources. [/b]

Thanks.

So "Obstruction" (and I'd forgotten what she was charged with, so thanks for the reminder LC) in US law is probably equivalent to what we call over here in the UK as "perverting the course of justice", I think?

IIRR, wasn't her bail set at a high figure at first, like half a million dollars. Is that usual in Capital Cases?

I'm thinking she probably provided a false alibi for either Williams or Pettaway.

Sorry about all the questions Mockers, but as I'm in England there are some differences in our legal systems, so I'm just trying to get it all set straight in my mind.

(08-02-2012, 05:44 PM)Aberlin Wrote: That is so disappointing. I'll probably be hated for saying this, but I could actually accept Cam walking IF he were to end up doing something powerful with his life. True, I'm asking for a lot here, but as wildflower said, it just compounds the situation further.

Again, I'm not happy that he walked, but rather that I could accept it if his life became something that changed the lives of others and prevented many crimes as a result.

To say he received a second chance is an understatement, but the statistics say he'll just go right back to what he knows.

If only...

Fools never learn! What's the first thing he does after his release? it's get on Facebook, he has worked his way slowly up to 156 friends now, many with drug dealing backgrounds some nasty people on there.

Two of the prostitutes are gone including the one he called a fool, she only had 3 children by him and he calls her a fool! Oh! but the third prostitute Sarah Rupert is still with him, she must adore him.

I'm afraid you're right! he's back to doing what he knows.

(08-04-2012, 05:05 PM)NightOwl Wrote: Fools never learn! What's the first thing he does after his release? it's get on Facebook, he has worked his way slowly up to 156 friends now, many with drug dealing backgrounds some nasty people on there.

Two of the prostitutes are gone including the one he called a fool, she only had 3 children by him and he calls her a fool! Oh! but the third prostitute Sarah Rupert is still with him, she must adore him.

I'm afraid you're right! he's back to doing what he knows.

I've been waiting to see if MV () showed up. And yup she did. It is my belief that it was MV that AC was having a freaking problem with. Did not make the Cameo connection until now, though. After the arrests MV went private. But before? it was all out drama.

(08-04-2012, 10:38 AM)Green Ribbon Wrote: I do have a couple of thoughts about the case that weren't answered by the trial though.

1. How come two not so bright (and one even classed as a retard!) perps managed not to leave any dna on either bodies in what was a nasty murder?

Well this is a good question, if your refer back to the phone calls tape recorded in Jail with Sam Williams and Steven Pettaway, my take on these two is they've been roughing up people possibly at other locations in Toledo, it was supposed to be Steven that night but, he was in jail so Cam had to go as substitute. It sounds to me like they are a couple of thugs that were rented out, some bastard set this thing up and hired those two to thump Johnny and Lisa around and hold them down by force. The jail phone calls fried Williams and Yinglings testimony.

I believe they all wore gloves in the beginning the trouble begins with duct tape, I would assume it is more difficult to handle duct tape with gloves on. What we don't know is which side of the duct tape was the DNA found, if it was found on the sticky side then they used their fingers and wiped the outside of the duct tape off, we also don't know if it's skin cells, saliva or hair. No DNA was on the bags, Some female DNA found inside Johnny's pants pockets same as on the Duct Tape. My take on all this is Williams and Pettaway the henchmen put the bags over their heads whilst the others taped. We don't know for sure if both Cam and Sam took a smoke break together, what if it was just Cam and he had never done a job like this before according to brother Steven, and it was goofy Cameo that slipped up and left the cig., by mistake & Sam didn't know it. IMO

I wish we could get a thug in here so I could ask some questions.

I'm interested in what these people think about Cam walkin' & Sam going away for life. Is Sam mad at Cam? Is Cameo scared for his life? Do people on the street view Cam as a murderer or as an innocent? I have questions, damnit.

(08-04-2012, 05:46 PM)Adub Wrote:

(08-04-2012, 05:05 PM)NightOwl Wrote: Fools never learn! What's the first thing he does after his release? it's get on Facebook, he has worked his way slowly up to 156 friends now, many with drug dealing backgrounds some nasty people on there.

Two of the prostitutes are gone including the one he called a fool, she only had 3 children by him and he calls her a fool! Oh! but the third prostitute Sarah Rupert is still with him, she must adore him.

I'm afraid you're right! he's back to doing what he knows.

I've been waiting to see if MV () showed up. And yup she did. It is my belief that it was MV that AC was having a freaking problem with. Did not make the Cameo connection until now, though. After the arrests MV went private. But before? it was all out drama.

They are crawling out of the woodwork Adub interesting find.

(08-04-2012, 05:58 PM)Duchess Wrote:

I wish we could get a thug in here so I could ask some questions.

I'm interested in what these people think about Cam walkin' & Sam going away for life. Is Sam mad at Cam? Is Cameo scared for his life? Do people on the street view Cam as a murderer or as an innocent? I have questions, damnit.

I'm wondering also!

Cameo has an open invitation from me to join here and tell his story. i wish he would, he's on FB anyway.
he could email me, verify who he is, and i would let him right in as a member.
his personal info would be safe.

Join us Cameo, Mock has everything about the case.

[email protected]

pass it along if you're in touch! thanks! LC



anyone related to case is welcome here.

(08-04-2012, 05:59 PM)NightOwl Wrote:

(08-04-2012, 05:46 PM)Adub Wrote:

(08-04-2012, 05:05 PM)NightOwl Wrote: Fools never learn! What's the first thing he does after his release? it's get on Facebook, he has worked his way slowly up to 156 friends now, many with drug dealing backgrounds some nasty people on there.

Two of the prostitutes are gone including the one he called a fool, she only had 3 children by him and he calls her a fool! Oh! but the third prostitute Sarah Rupert is still with him, she must adore him.

I'm afraid you're right! he's back to doing what he knows.

I've been waiting to see if MV () showed up. And yup she did. It is my belief that it was MV that AC was having a freaking problem with. Did not make the Cameo connection until now, though. After the arrests MV went private. But before? it was all out drama.

They are crawling out of the woodwork Adub interesting find.

Who is Mv again ??? It almost seems to me that a.c is the main person that everyone revolves around. ...like. in English class when u have one word in a bubble in the middle and u branch off of that she was dealing with Johnny weather just for exchange of the puppy and the bad car deal she knew Sam and cam and Steven and Tiffany and a.g

(08-04-2012, 10:38 AM)Green Ribbon Wrote: 1. How come two not so bright (and one even classed as a retard!) perps managed not to leave any dna on either bodies in what was a nasty murder?

Could be a million reasons why and we won't know for sure until someones comes forward with the entire story, mentioning every detail. Obvious statement I know, but worth saying anyway

Even though we're not dealing with world class assassins here, I feel confident in saying all who were involved knew about finger prints, hair fibers, etc.

Before getting into Cam and Sam lets talk about the Unknown Female.

Nightowl made a great point about duct tape being difficult to open with gloves on. However, the DNA on the tape is the same Unknown Female DNA inside Johnny's pockets. So there's a clue.

In her case, here's some possible scenarios:
1. She took off her gloves twice (once for the tape, once for going through Johnny's pocket...both tasks difficult to do with gloves on).
2. She took her gloves off once for taping Johnny and went through his pocket immediately afterwards
3. She was wearing either surgical or thin/cheap gloves that got ripped in a small place during the struggle or while opening the duct tape
4. She never had gloves on to begin with (signifying either a lack of planning or implying she was not supposed to be a "hands on enforcer/participant"...I'll explain later, but I don't put much stock into this theory)
5. The DNA might not be from skin but rather saliva from biting off the tape (this doesn't explain the DNA in Johnny's pocket)
6. DNA on the tape could be from hair (this also doesn't explain the DNA in Johnny's pocket)

Point 5 is my favorite theory personally because if a second person had to come restrain Johnny, its safe to assume he was putting up an intense fight. Not too hard to assume she had one arm wrapped around Johnny's legs and the other spooling the tape around his feet. Perhaps with all the squirming it seemed easier to continue to hold him down and use her teeth break loose the duct tape. In addition, sometimes duct tape is a pain in the ass to rip, so when you're in a hurry you use your teeth (ask anyone how works with duct tape regularly).

Of course this theory isn't without its failings because I don't think this girl started licking the inside of Johnny's pocket.

The problem with the term "DNA" is that it can encompass more than one thing (skin, hair, saliva, etc) and we're lacking full disclosure about these samples.

The reason I put so much emphasis on this girl is because I believe this was a planned robbery effort. However, if you agree this was a planned effort then you also have to acknowledge collaboration. With collaboration, there's a certain level of consistency; if one wears gloves, all will, if one covers their face, all will, etc. I seriously doubt someone would come along seeing others with gloves thinking they're safe touching things with out them.

With collaboration there's varying levels of participation (which is key). I doubt they all went in there just winging it and seeing who grabs who first. Sure, I think there was some on-the-spot improvising but all in all when you bring that many people with you, each has a specific reason for being there.

Keeping those scenarios in mind remember that:
1. DNA was found on the cig butt but not fingerprints (Sam and Cam were wearing gloves...or at least when they went outside)
2. Sam and Cam both have very short hair (less likely to find hair fibers)
3. It was winter (people wear long sleeves and the likes that aids in covering skin/hair)

If Sam and Cam were masked, that can further explain the lack of hair-based DNA. As for the girl, longer hair has more probability of falling out even with a mask on.

If the DNA on the tape was saliva, then there is a pattern here; criminals aware of fingerprint evidence, composite sketches (maybe), and hair, but not thinking of saliva. If this is true, why bother taking the cig butt with you? Why not just bite off the tape?

There might not be any other DNA samples of Sam and Cam inside the house simply because they were just reinforcements; there to step in if someone got loose, etc.

However, I believe they all had some sort of hands on effort and the lack of evidence against them is because they were careful in every regard but overlooked DNA transfers from saliva. As far as the girl, maybe she was in a panicked state and stopped thinking because it all got out of hand so fast.

Lastly, you could be looking at total luck here. People have shot themselves and somehow left no fingerprints on the gun they used. Just mentioning that to show stranger things have happened.

Justice for Johnny & Lisa
2 hours ago via mobile
"LAW ABIDING CITIZEN STYLE" on all you vile sick demons cowards parasites maggots ARE YOU ALL READY???? the anticipation of not knowing when will kill you huh?

Justice for Johnny & Lisa
32 minutes ago via mobile
Dear johnny and lisa those evil vile demons that hurt you that night had no idea WHAT THEY UNLEASHED!!!!!! but remember our PROMISE TO YOU AND LISA MY DEAR SWEET BEAUTIFUL LOVE....the wrath its on its way to all THEY ACTIVATED THE HATE NOW WE LET IT BREAK TO THE FLAMES DEMONS!!!!!! makes you wonder what day what time what hour what minute you will all drop huh??? Well ask GOD he knows but he hates you too so im sure he wont save you.

RIP Johnny
3 hours ago via mobile
IF YOU ARE RELATED TO VILE DEMON MAGGOTS PARASITES COWARDS SAMUEL WILLIAMS OR CAMEO PETTAWAY IN ANY SHAPE WAY OR FORM GET THE F OFF THIS PAGE YOU EVIL BASTARDS TRUST AND BELIEVE ALL YOU AND YOUR DEMON CREW WILL BE DEALT WITH PERIOD.THIS IS THE BEGINING OF THE END FOR ALL OF YOU!!!!!!


Justice for Johnny & Lisa
Saturday via mobile
When under trial,let no one say:"i am being tried by god".for with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone. But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire,when it has become fertile gives birth to sin,in turn,sin,when it has been accomplished,brings forth death.WE DEMAND ULTIMATE JUSTICE FOR JOHNNY CLARKE AND LISA STRAUB!!!! ROT IN HE
LL SAMUEL WILLIAMS , CAMEO PETTAWAY YOURE EVIL VILE DEMONS AND YOUR CREW YOU ALL HAD A CHOICE THAT EVIL DARK DREADFULL NIGHT AND YOU DIDNT GIVE JOHNNY AND LISA A CHOICE TO LIVE INSTEAD YOU ALL CHOSE TO TORTURE OUR BEAUTIFUL KIDS AND TAKE AWAY THEIR LIFE ;,( YOU SICK EVIL VILE CULPRITS NOW YOU MUST PAY THE ULTIMATE PRICE FOR ALL YOUR EVIL DEEDS!!!! DEATH IS WHAT AWAITS YOU ALL PERIOD.

Justice for Johnny & Lisa
6 minutes ago via mobile
ATTENTION VILE EVIL DEMONS MAGGOTS PARASITES RATS THAT HURT JOHNNY AND LISA..DID YOU KNOW GOD IS NOT GOING TO SAVE YOU WHEN THE DEVIL COMES TO KILL YOU ALL.....

I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING HER ALL EVENING. At least 6 posts in a couple hours.. With all the threats, if something happens, she could be suspect.