(01-28-2016, 02:51 PM)Donovan Wrote: People who think that blacks were ever adequately compensated for slavery, or "made equal" at any time up to and including the present day, are certainly mistaken and almost as certainly white. It's simply not the truth.

Stop with the white guilt BS. You're white, after taxes, how much of your paycheck do you contribute to the needy blacks? Do you go to your local hood and give everyone a hug and tell them how sorry you are for what happened 100s of yrs ago? Do you ask them what you can do to help their "situation"?
I'm serious...instead of getting on here trying to make everyone feel guilty for something none of us had anything to do with, why don't you try and come up with some ideas or solutions to satisfy the blacks so we can all live in peace. Not on here, out in the real world.

(01-28-2016, 02:55 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote:

(01-28-2016, 02:51 PM)Donovan Wrote: People who think that blacks were ever adequately compensated for slavery, or "made equal" at any time up to and including the present day, are certainly mistaken and almost as certainly white. It's simply not the truth.

Regardless, if you're going to compensate someone financially for slavery, why aren't we talking about compensating the native Americans as well?

"We" are. And in truth a great many tribes have received financial renumeration over the years in the form of land grants and nominal lump payments and tax breaks etc. In some cases the financial settlement is quite large and is actually being refused by tribes who feel taking the money would somehow justify what was done to them.

Comparing the native peoples to the descendents of slaves is an apples and oranges thing, because in the case of the former we were dealing with multiple sovereign entities, dozens if not hundreds of autonomous tribe groups that we essentially robbed and destroyed over the course of a couple centuries, while the Africans were people who were kidnapped and used as forced, uncompensated brute labor. And treated as chattel to be disposed of or killed at will. Something we don't even do to animals today.

Of course I'm sure you were already aware of these things. You seem like the type who does careful research before shooting off your mouth

Why don't we just tax the Christians since they were the ones who primarily murdered the Indians and tortured slaves. It wouldn't kill the church and their congregations to pay a small tax to benefit the native americans and blacks. There is a church on every corner so it would really add up.

(01-28-2016, 05:49 PM)FAHQTOO Wrote:

(01-28-2016, 02:51 PM)Donovan Wrote: People who think that blacks were ever adequately compensated for slavery, or "made equal" at any time up to and including the present day, are certainly mistaken and almost as certainly white. It's simply not the truth.

Stop with the white guilt BS. You're white, after taxes, how much of your paycheck do you contribute to the needy blacks? Do you go to your local hood and give everyone a hug and tell them how sorry you are for what happened 100s of yrs ago? Do you ask them what you can do to help their "situation"?
I'm serious...instead of getting on here trying to make everyone feel guilty for something none of us had anything to do with, why don't you try and come up with some ideas or solutions to satisfy the blacks so we can all live in peace. Not on here, out in the real world.

Who said anything about white guilt? I prefer to follow the philosophy set forth in Plato's allegory of the cave. You know, looking at reality for what it is and not being frightened by shadows on the wall. We cannot move forward as a truly powerful nation unless we take a hard look at what we have done, right and wrong alike, to get to this point. It does us no earthly good to withhold hope from so many of our people based on skin color, and by doing so limit ourselves as humans.

Black men and women and children were property until 150 years ago. Not "hundreds. And they were destroyed, tortured, wantonly murdered by the thousands, mistreated, and otherwise maligned for another century after their so-called liberation. And their forced inequality at the hands of state-sponsored racist policies continues to this day. Blacks who are given opportunities and an equal shot at the American dream prove time and again to be valuable members of their communities. It is only the people left without hope-both black AND white- who become a drain on society. It's adorable that you think only black people can be needy, or poor, or useless. And by adorable I mean slightly nauseating.

We are the land of plenty. The idea that allowing others to seek equal opportunity would somehow take our own is a fallacy. So is the idea that "OUR" tax money is somehow still ours to control. It isn't. We elect representative who (in theory) spend the money we donate wisely and on things we find worthwhile. The only reasons to hold others back from hope and opportunity that we as whites enjoy would be fear and greed. Which one drives you?

Reparations don't have to be about cash rewards, none of which would begin to set things right. But investing in our poorest communities, building neighborhoods and schools and parks instead of prisons and liquor stores...but here's the part where you and others like you blame the conditions of our ghettos on the poor people themselves, right?

(01-28-2016, 08:30 PM)sally Wrote: Why don't we just tax the Christians since they were the ones who primarily murdered the Indians and tortured slaves. It wouldn't kill the church and their congregations to pay a small tax to benefit the native americans and blacks. There is a church on every corner so it would really add up.

This is incorrect and naive but in your own backward way you make a valid point. Churches have enjoyed tax free status for way too long and their value to the community has diminished. I would love to see them taxed as for-profit entities, since that is what most of them are. Especially con outfits like that Joel Osteen and his ilk.

(01-28-2016, 08:46 PM)Donovan Wrote: Reparations don't have to be about cash rewards, none of which would begin to set things right. But investing in our poorest communities, building neighborhoods and schools and parks instead of prisons and liquor stores...but here's the part where you and others like you blame the conditions of our ghettos on the poor people themselves, right?

I think a lot of cities are doing just that and I think a lot depends on where you live. We have housing projects here that were built not longer than 10 years ago and were very nice, and now they are destroyed and overrun with drugs and crime? Who's fault is that?

(01-28-2016, 08:49 PM)Donovan Wrote:

(01-28-2016, 08:30 PM)sally Wrote: Why don't we just tax the Christians since they were the ones who primarily murdered the Indians and tortured slaves. It wouldn't kill the church and their congregations to pay a small tax to benefit the native americans and blacks. There is a church on every corner so it would really add up.

This is incorrect and naive but in your own backward way you make a valid point. Churches have enjoyed tax free status for way too long and their value to the community has diminished. I would love to see them taxed as for-profit entities, since that is what most of them are. Especially con outfits like that Joel Osteen and his ilk.

First of all I said that jokingly and as a comparison to holding corporations responsible for reparations for slavery. But what part is incorrect? That Christians were mainly responsible for the cruel treatment of both native Americans and African Americans? From what I've read that is entirely correct.

When a buck aint worth a dime they can have all they want. But until next year or so their gonna have to wait like everyone else.

(01-28-2016, 08:46 PM)Donovan Wrote: hold others back from hope and opportunity that we as whites enjoy

investing in our poorest communities, building neighborhoods and schools and parks instead of prisons and liquor stores...

You said a lot of good shit there. However, I don't see all the "hope and opportunity that whites enjoy." You mean like the opportunity to buy sunscreen? Because as you yourself said, there's plenty of poor/hopeless white people, and repeated examples of successful minorities.

Your second point here is extremely pertinent. It also doesn't mention race. It's about wealth. Investing in poor communities to improve the quality of life is admirable. It doesn't mean there aren't poor white communities that need help. It's not about race... it's about SES. That's the minutiae that many people ignore.

Sure, there's a disproportionate number of minorities living in poor inner cities, but is that racism? Should we help because they're minority, or should we help because they're poor? Hint: one answer is extremely condescending to minorities.

The Democrat party has revived the issue of reparations in advance of the 2020 election.  I expect to see the topic broached during the Primary debates starting in June.

Snip:
Sparked in part by the support of several presidential contenders, the topic has been discussed multiple times by top House Democrats, including at their retreat in the exurbs of Virginia earlier this month.

But the issue is likely to divide the party — not just by race, but by generation. The Congressional Black Caucus is notably split, with some younger African-American lawmakers clamoring to force the conversation into the open while more senior members worry about alienating moderate voters.

“I’m glad that we’re having this discussion and I’m glad that it seems to be an adult discussion for a change,” said House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.), the highest-ranking African-American in Congress. “We’re just getting people to understand that reparations, by definition, means ‘to amend.’ Now the question is how do we make amends?”

A discussion over reparations isn’t without risk, however, according to Clyburn and some other senior lawmakers and aides. Forcing the issue would likely open Democrats up to attacks from Republicans during the 2020 race.

But avoiding it — especially with Democrats controlling the House with the most diverse caucus in history — could also turn off voters of color who think it’s an important conversation to have, especially with President Donald Trump in the White House and white nationalism on the rise.

“As this administration has seemed to be forcing certain issues, I think that everybody wants to have an honest discussion about everybody who is in this country,” Clyburn said.

That Democrats are seriously entertaining such a response to the bitter legacy of slavery and discrimination against African-Americans underscores how quickly the party has shifted in recent years. While Barack Obama opposed reparations as a presidential candidate, White House hopefuls like Sens. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) and Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) and former HUD Secretary Julián Castro have warmed to it.

(continued)

Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.), another presidential candidate, has introduced a companion bill to legislation sponsored by Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas) that would create a commission to study the idea of reparations.

Rep. Karen Bass (D-Calif.), who leads the Congressional Black Caucus, said she believes the House could act on the issue in some way this year.

One option is the proposal from Jackson Lee — legislation first introduced in 1989 by former Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.), but that never gained traction.

Jackson Lee’s bill has nearly 50 co-sponsors and she told POLITICO she was preparing to send a “Dear colleague” letter in the next few weeks to solicit more support within the caucus. Jackson Lee also said she expects her bill to receive a hearing in the House Judiciary Committee. “We want to be responsive to all Americans and we know how diverse this country has become,” Jackson Lee said in an interview. “We have consistently, as Democrats, wanted to say to the American people that we are for the people."

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) has voiced support for reparations several times in recent months. And fellow freshman Rep. Rashida Tlaib, who now represents’ Conyers Detroit-area district, is a staunch supporter of Jackson Lee’s bill.

“Her bill is exactly the starting point that we need to have a full-blown conversation about reparations,” Tlaib said.

Bass said she also supports Jackson Lee’s bill — unlike some other legislation over the years — because it would focus on the way racism has been embedded in the nation’s institutions, rather than simply doling out cash.

“My problem with the entire discussion around reparations is that it’s really used, in my opinion, to ridicule African- Americans, as if what black people are interested in is a check,” Bass said in an interview. “And that’s not the point. The point is to really look at what has happened in this country, this country’s history, because we have never come to grips with it.”

Full piece:  https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/2...ns-1283460

They were payed through the deaths of all the soldiers that died setting them free. The Indians now have tax free casinos.

(04-21-2019, 12:40 PM)Maggot Wrote: They were payed through the deaths of all the soldiers that died setting them free. The Indians now have tax free casinos.

So do Asian Americans pay for Black Americans? Are their taxes exempt? What about Black Americans who are not descended from Slaves? What about Black Americans who are descended from slaves but are bi-racial? Is it apportioned? What about people that white but were immigrants AFTER slavery and had no connection to the culture or environment? Are they except? What about people that were not slave owners (this was a very select group of wealthy Democrats in the South)? What about people that were descended from slaveowners an from slaves?

I say reparations is a fucking ridiculous thing. There are no slaves. There was a war fought to stop that practice. The people for slavery lost. There is no person alive who was a slave.

Where would the funds come from? The US national debt is the highest it's ever been.