PolitiFact pisses me off. If you look to them for facts you're a fucking moron.

(04-13-2023, 01:53 AM)rothschild Wrote: PolitiFact is owned by the Poynter Institute. One of the Poynter Institute's largest donors is mega-billionaire Charles Koch, whose father helped found the John Birch Society.

Just sayin'.

Is this one of the Koch brothers that I've often read about in regards to politics and mega donations?

(04-13-2023, 01:04 PM)Duchess Wrote:

(04-13-2023, 01:53 AM)rothschild Wrote: PolitiFact is owned by the Poynter Institute. One of the Poynter Institute's largest donors is mega-billionaire Charles Koch, whose father helped found the John Birch Society.

Just sayin'.

Is this one of the Koch brothers that I've often read about in regards to politics and mega donations?

Yes it is.

I despise communism but fascism isn't really any better. The reason Soviet and Maoist communism murdered tens of millions of people is because it set out to rapidly industrialize agrarian societies, destroying the livlihood of the peasantry, which consequently became extremely resentful and was then treated as enemies of the state. Fascism, while brutally repressive, isn't driven by a rabid, ideological orthodoxy that necessitates extreme chaos.

Contrary to what is taught in political "science", communism was financed by the same elitists who benefit under "democratic" fascism, because polarization is extremely beneficial to those whose interests are not grounded in nationalism.

I know that wasn't the answer you were looking for, but there you have it.

(04-13-2023, 03:14 PM)rothschild Wrote: I know that wasn't the answer you were looking for, but there you have it. 

Sure it was. You answered my question. 

I don't know why I didn't look it up for myself, I don't have a lame excuse.

I've heard that name mentioned repeatedly the last couple of election cycles, but I don't know enough about that family to get argumentative with you. I know they are republicans & I know they are very wealthy, that's about the extent of it.

(04-13-2023, 01:53 AM)rothschild Wrote:

(04-12-2023, 11:17 PM)MirahM Wrote:

(03-28-2023, 06:50 AM)Piglet Wrote: On our news it stated that the USA has had 129 gun attacks this year, and its only March.  I know your going to get upset, but it bears discussion.  If those attacks were carried out by terrorists the USA would be on high alert, like after the twin towers.

What got me is how cool that m fkr was walking into the school. 

Something has to be done.   Biden has said so, but  like healthcare he will do nowt.  And hes in charge.   It seems to me you have a president, but has no power, he should be able to pass gun laws.

This article says that guns were the #1 leading cause of death of chidren under the age of 19 in 2020. This doesn't include deaths of infants for infant specific death issues.

3219 firearm deaths in 2020 of those under the age of 19
2,882 vehicular deaths.

So I think the logical thing is to ban the sale of all motorized vehicles. Kidding.

Gun violence claimed more lives in 2020 (over 45,000) than it had any other year on record.

That is a relief, I hoped Covid hadn't taken ALL of those lives!

https://www.statesman.com/story/news/pol...529783001/

PolitiFact is owned by the Poynter Institute. One of the Poynter Institute's largest donors is mega-billionaire Charles Koch, whose father helped found the John Birch Society.

Just sayin'.

Do you discount the findings in the article?

I misquoted what the purpose of the article was-the author was fact checking Chuck Schumer.

I didn't realize it was from politifact. The heading said "Austin American Statesman" I ignored the rest.

(04-14-2023, 02:17 AM)MirahM Wrote:

(04-13-2023, 01:53 AM)rothschild Wrote:

(04-12-2023, 11:17 PM)MirahM Wrote:

(03-28-2023, 06:50 AM)Piglet Wrote: On our news it stated that the USA has had 129 gun attacks this year, and its only March.  I know your going to get upset, but it bears discussion.  If those attacks were carried out by terrorists the USA would be on high alert, like after the twin towers.

What got me is how cool that m fkr was walking into the school. 

Something has to be done.   Biden has said so, but  like healthcare he will do nowt.  And hes in charge.   It seems to me you have a president, but has no power, he should be able to pass gun laws.

This article says that guns were the #1 leading cause of death of chidren under the age of 19 in 2020. This doesn't include deaths of infants for infant specific death issues.

3219 firearm deaths in 2020 of those under the age of 19
2,882 vehicular deaths.

So I think the logical thing is to ban the sale of all motorized vehicles. Kidding.

Gun violence claimed more lives in 2020 (over 45,000) than it had any other year on record.

That is a relief, I hoped Covid hadn't taken ALL of those lives!

https://www.statesman.com/story/news/pol...529783001/

PolitiFact is owned by the Poynter Institute. One of the Poynter Institute's largest donors is mega-billionaire Charles Koch, whose father helped found the John Birch Society.

Just sayin'.

Do you discount the findings in the article?

I misquoted what the purpose of the article was-the author was fact checking Chuck Schumer.

I didn't realize it was from politifact. The heading said "Austin American Statesman" I ignored the rest.

I highly doubt that gun deaths are the leading cause of death for people 19 and under. If I had to guess it would be medicine, which is an extremely powerful industry with tremendous influence when it comes to government regulation. Since the covid vaccines were rolled out there are children having heart attacks, which was previously unheard of. Have you seen any press coverage of this? I haven't.

"Fact-checking", IMO, is corporate PR. For people who aren't educated to think critically it seems innocuous and convenient, but is it?

I'm prepared to be argumentative now!

If it's not being reported then how do you know that, rothschild? The fact is that gun violence is the leading cause of death of young people. Just because you don't agree with that doesn't mean it isn't true.

Fact checking is fact checking whether it comes from someplace you approve of or some place you find fault with.

All one has to do is listen to drugs being advertised to know there are drawbacks to ALL drugs. All drugs have side effects and people can choose whether or not the benefits outweigh the risks. It's always been that way.

(04-14-2023, 07:55 AM)Duchess Wrote: I'm prepared to be argumentative now!

If it's not being reported then how do you know that, rothschild? The fact is that gun violence is the leading cause of death of young people. Just because you don't agree with that doesn't mean it isn't true.

Fact checking is fact checking whether it comes from someplace you approve of or some place you find fault with.

All one has to do is listen to drugs being advertised to know there are drawbacks to ALL drugs. All drugs have side effects and people can choose whether or not the benefits outweigh the risks. It's always been that way.

I didn't say I "know", I said if I had to guess it would be medicine, and for the record, medical care is one of the leading causes of death overall -- though you do have to weigh that against the benefits.

Fact-checking is something you do -- or don't do -- it isn't a service that's provided to people. If you doubt that, ask yourself if you think Russian gov't fact-checking is worth a lick of spit. We both know the answer to that, so why would you think corporations are any more reliable?

(04-14-2023, 12:48 PM)rothschild Wrote:

(04-14-2023, 07:55 AM)Duchess Wrote: If it's not being reported then how do you know that, rothschild? The fact is that gun violence is the leading cause of death of young people. Just because you don't agree with that doesn't mean it isn't true.

Fact checking is fact checking whether it comes from someplace you approve of or some place you find fault with.

I didn't say I "know", I said if I had to guess it would be medicine, and for the record, medical care is one of the leading causes of death overall 

Fact-checking is something you do -- or don't do -- it isn't a service that's provided to people. 

Hahaha! 

Mirah's data is verifiable and the numbers she posted are correct.  And yet, both of you are wrong in your positions . . . while using her data!  

Duchess . . . Gun Violence is not the leading cause of death, for young people.  Again, from Mirah's data.

Rothschild . . . guess you didn't "fact check", too.  Again, from Mirah's data . . . Neither Gun Violence or Medical Care is the leading cause of death, for young people.

Lose the talking points and cite facts . . . lazy bastards!

(04-14-2023, 03:23 PM)BlueTiki Wrote:

(04-14-2023, 12:48 PM)rothschild Wrote:

(04-14-2023, 07:55 AM)Duchess Wrote: If it's not being reported then how do you know that, rothschild? The fact is that gun violence is the leading cause of death of young people. Just because you don't agree with that doesn't mean it isn't true.

Fact checking is fact checking whether it comes from someplace you approve of or some place you find fault with.

I didn't say I "know", I said if I had to guess it would be medicine, and for the record, medical care is one of the leading causes of death overall 

Fact-checking is something you do -- or don't do -- it isn't a service that's provided to people. 

Hahaha! 

Mirah's data is verifiable and the numbers she posted are correct.  And yet, both of you are wrong in your positions . . . while using her data!  

Duchess . . . Gun Violence is not the leading cause of death, for young people.  Again, from Mirah's data.

Rothschild . . . guess you didn't "fact check", too.  Again, from Mirah's data . . . Neither Gun Violence or Medical Care is the leading cause of death, for young people.

Lose the talking points and cite facts . . . lazy bastards!

What's your standard for "verified"? GDP and inflation are both misreported, as a rule. Remember the pro forma accounting scandal back when Enron went bust? Remember the eye-popping corporate writedowns? I do.

Misreporting is commonplace. That doesn't mean all reported data is necessarily fraudulent, but it does mean that there's a high probability that it is in any particular instance, because that's the world we live in.

Let's keep this real simple, RC.  

My standard for verified, in this instance, was you looking at Mirah's data and her source.  She took the time to find and post something . . . at least have the courtesy to give it a fair read.  It is obvious you didn't.

If you did, (and this goes for Duchess, too), you would have discovered and confirmed, two important details about the data . . . and both of these details would render the statement about Gun Violence being the leading cause of death for juveniles, as being "FALSE". 

So .  .  . instead of lecturing me on Anderson and their obliterating and ignoring the rules of accounting, focus on data you have in front of you and verify that it is being represented accurately . . . and with some semblance of objectivity.

If you want to focus on eye-popping write-downs or missing assets, by all means start with the DOD and the recent Pentagon audit.  Can't account for how much . . . 40 . . . or is it 60 %, of their assets?  Hundreds of billions of dollars . . . poof . . . gone! 

No . . . don't.  Instead, define "Gun Violence" versus "Firearm Death", for me.

(04-14-2023, 03:23 PM)BlueTiki Wrote: Duchess . . . Gun Violence is not the leading cause of death, for young people.  Again, from Mirah's data.

(04-14-2023, 06:34 PM)BlueTiki Wrote: No . . . don't.  Instead, define "Gun Violence" versus "Firearm Death", for me.

I view firearm death as accidental (usually) and gun violence as breaking the law in a deliberate manner.

I'm not articulating myself well and Tiki is going to shred me.

(04-14-2023, 06:34 PM)BlueTiki Wrote: Let's keep this real simple, RC.  

My standard for verified, in this instance, was you looking at Mirah's data and her source.  She took the time to find and post something . . . at least have the courtesy to give it a fair read.  It is obvious you didn't.

If you did, (and this goes for Duchess, too), you would have discovered and confirmed, two important details about the data . . . and both of these details would render the statement about Gun Violence being the leading cause of death for juveniles, as being "FALSE". 

So .  .  . instead of lecturing me on Anderson and their obliterating and ignoring the rules of accounting, focus on data you have in front of you and verify that it is being represented accurately . . . and with some semblance of objectivity.

If you want to focus on eye-popping write-downs or missing assets, by all means start with the DOD and the recent Pentagon audit.  Can't account for how much . . . 40 . . . or is it 60 %, of their assets?  Hundreds of billions of dollars . . . poof . . . gone! 

No . . . don't.  Instead, define "Gun Violence" versus "Firearm Death", for me.

Actually, I did read the article, and saw the infant exclusion. Not sure why you'd assume I didn't because I made no mention of it, but you did.

As for the DOD, monies that are unaccounted for are in excess of twenty trillion dollars.

If you'd like examples of reporting discrepancies re the public health industry I'll be happy to provide some.

Actually, it wasn't the infant exclusion.  However, the infant exclusion lists a far greater number of deaths, than death by firearms.  No one mentions that infants 12 months and younger die at a greater rate and number than 1-18 yrs. old do, by firearms.  Odd.

Firearm deaths . . . include Homicide.  Firearm deaths . . . include Suicide.  Gun Violence . . . undefined and ambiguous term.  Duchess' definition works for me . . .
and should include deaths AND injuries. 

Gun Violence  . . . SHOULD exclude suicide deaths.  Subtract suicide deaths from the Gun Violence total.

Golly!  Once you do that, more kids are killed in or by vehicles, than by firearms!  Who knew? Yup. Vehicles . . . now the number one killer, of that age group.

The article used numbers from the CDC.  In fact, all firearm deaths accounted for only 20%, of that age group's death.

Of the 45,000 deaths from firearms (all ages) . . . less than 20,000 were due to Gun Violence . . . the other 25,000+ were suicides.

You understand that the data states that more people kill themselves with a firearm . . .  than kill others . . . right?  Pretty straight forward.

And Schumer doesn't believe there is a mental health connection.   

That's what I mean by "Verified", in this instance  . . . verifying context and honesty, with numbers and ambiguous rhetoric, used by journalists and media.

You guessed "medical" . . . when there was really no reason to guess.  It was all right there . . . just waiting for you to look and see.

(04-15-2023, 02:42 AM)BlueTiki Wrote: You guessed "medical" . . . when there was really no reason to guess.  It was all right there . . . just waiting for you to look and see.

What isn't there might well be of greater significance. I've got some good examples that illustrate that. I'll post a few tomorrow.

(04-01-2023, 10:28 AM)Duchess Wrote: All I know for sure is that banning all firearms is not the answer, nor should it be. That will never happen and I don't know anyone who wants that to happen. I think you're the only person I've ever seen say that.

Have you seen that movie with Glen Close and Jeff Bridges 1985 film Jagged Edge. In the end of the film, he smashed her back door window and comes into her room to kill her. She has a small gun and shoots him dead. I want a automatic rifle to make sure I don't miss. I want to pow pow pow pow. Imagine how scary that guy was. Or when I have watched true crime and some woman is living alone in the USA and some guy breaks in and murders her. No, grab automatic rifle and blow that guy or mob to smithereens.

(04-15-2023, 05:15 AM)aussiefriend Wrote: Have you seen that movie with Glen Close and Jeff Bridges 1985 film Jagged Edge. In the end of the film, he smashed her back door window and comes into her room to kill her. She has a small gun and shoots him dead. I want a automatic rifle to make sure I don't miss. I want to pow pow pow pow. Imagine how scary that guy was. Or when I have watched true crime and some woman is living alone in the USA and some guy breaks in and murders her. No, grab automatic rifle and blow that guy or mob to smithereens.

I haven't seen that movie, but I understand what you're saying. If I had to wait for someone to save me, I'd be dead by the time they got out here.

That's right, you would be so frigthened and so terrified, you wanna make sure they are blown to the next dimension. Forget it.

I am going to be so pissed off if I am ever forced into the position of having to shoot someone. Goddamn! I know I don't have to go looking for trouble for it to find me, but I live my life in such a way I shouldn't have to worry about that kind of thing. I'm an old pot head. Leave me alone and get off my grass, muthafucka.