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+--- Thread: American Indians and firewater (/thread-7374.html)
RE: American Indians and firewater - Duchess - 02-12-2012
RE: American Indians and firewater - HairOfTheDog - 02-12-2012
I'm conflicted about this issue.
The US government doesn't go into the ghetto and prohibit unemployed folks from downing Colt 45 all day. They don't monitor the prescription drug usage among the out of work entertainers and celebrities tucked away in the Hollywood Hills. Nobody's dictating how many calories are consumed by SSI-sustained shut-ins living in the suburbs. But, alcoholism, prescription drug abuse, and obesity afflict large segments of those communities.
So, is it right to take away alcohol from Indians on reservations? What's the difference? Because the land is owned by the government? Because the percentage of the Indian population suffering from alcoholism is easier to spot and measure since they live on designated government-owned land?
I'd like to see the mortality rate of the US Indians improved and the number of children born with fetal alcohol syndrome decline. I don't doubt that these problems exist and probably in a greater percentage of the population than other segments of society. Sad as hell. But I'm torn between helping by mandating laws that don't apply equally outside the reservation versus the rights of Indians to make the same decisions for themselves as everyone else in the country when it comes to legal substances that destroy people when abused.
RE: American Indians and firewater - IMaDick - 02-12-2012
(02-12-2012, 05:39 PM)aussiefriend Wrote:(02-12-2012, 11:35 AM)IMaDick Wrote: actually they are their own little country, with presidents and councils.
why don't you set up your own little country? Population 1.
Just because they have leaders within their community (like their do here) that does not make them a country or an independent state. Are you really that stupid? It's the United States of America right? Or are their other countries hiding in there that I don't know about? Really? Are they part of the United Nations? I haven't seem them at the Olympics lately.
I have worked on a reservation many times and I can tell you they are a country unto themselves.
They have their own President, their own police force and their own laws.
RE: American Indians and firewater - username - 02-12-2012
No, I don't believe they have a right to sue. That's capitalism at its finest!
The policing issue is a whole 'nother story. I read about it briefly...
The Bureau of Indian Affairs Police, usually known as the BIA Police is the law enforcement arm of the Bureau of Indian Affairs which polices Indian tribes and reservations that don't have their own police force, and oversee other tribal police organizations. BIA Police services are provided through the Office of Justice Services Law Enforcement.[1]
A BIA Police Officer is a Federal Police Officer who enforces federal law relating to Indian Country, including, but not limited to Title 16, Title 18, and Title 21 of the United States Code as well as the Code of Federal Regulations. BIA has nationwide jurisdiction to enforce federal law relating to crimes committed within or involving Indian Country and officers are usually found near the various Indian Reservations. BIA Police Officers may enforce tribal law if the tribe consents by deputizing the BIA and its officers. In some cases, BIA Police Officers are granted authority to enforce tribal law by tribal ordinance or statute. They may also be granted authority to enforce state laws by state statute.
The lack of enforcement is a separate issue from whether or not those stores have the right to sell beer. They do.
RE: American Indians and firewater - Cracker - 02-12-2012
(02-12-2012, 05:39 PM)aussiefriend Wrote: Or are their other countries hiding in there that I don't know about? Really? Are they part of the United Nations? I haven't seem them at the Olympics lately.
The Republic of Smegs Ass comes to mind. You will only see it in the Special Olympics. The flag is white on white with a little cat piss on the corner. You can't miss it.
RE: American Indians and firewater - sally - 02-12-2012
I agree with Dick, leave them alone.
Even in the initial stages of contact between European Christians and
Native Indian people the stage was set for ethnocentrism, and the
attitude towards the Indians was that of Christian superiority. The
Indians were read a proclamation in Spanish which they had no hope of
understanding, they had no hope of understanding the death sentence they
were being read, and it went something like this:
"We ask and require you to acknowledge the church as the ruler and
superior of the whole world and the high priest called pope and in his
name the king of Spain as lords of this land. If you submit we shall
receive you in all love and charity and shall leave you, your wives and
children and your lands free without servitude, but if you do not submit
we shall powerfully enter into your country and shall make war against
you, we shall take you and your wives and your children and shall make
slaves of them and we shall take away your goods and shall do you all
the harm and damage we can."
2000 years ago we were all tribal.
Then came the missionaries with their fucking bible.
1492 began the termination
The holocaust of our Indian nations
Yeah, with Christian love and a moral authority
They killed our medicine men and stole our country
I never claimed this shit was poetry
It's just the fucking lies of Christianity
You will pray to the lord and get down on your knees
Here's a cross for your back and the coughing disease
Though you helped us survive we will laugh while you bleed
Then deny what we did, write our own history
We will kidnap your children and cut off their hair
Silence their language and outlaw their prayers
Beat them blind until they believe
In the blood of Jesus Christ our king
Christians murdered Indians
Columbus murdered children and now we have a holiday
Still you want to deny your history
Look to the sky for your god to justify
As you commit cultural genocide
Christians came and the natives they did hang
13 at a time for Jesus and his gang
We are the ones you had to dehumanize
So your murder and greed could be justified
The belly of the church is full
With the blood of all those heathen fools
Who would not receive the gift of Christ?
So we burned them as a sacrifice
To our baby killing god above
To our mother church and all her love
We will steal their gods and subjugate
Those who don't believe we'll ahnilate
"The Spaniards made bets as to who would slit a man in two or cut of
his head with one blow. They tore babies from their mother's breast by
their feet and dashed their head against the rocks. They hanged Indians
by thirteen in honor and reverence for their redeemer and their twelve
apostles. They put wood underneath and with fire burned the Indians
alive."
Christians murdered Indians
We believe in the earth, the sky and dreams
The universe and the creator who gave us these
The sacred gift of life and human beings
That makes you perpetrate the hate to ahnilate
So here I am the savage civilized
Voice of the dead and my ancestor's cries
And like the ghosts of this land you can't erase
I see blood on the hands of the master race.
500 years of manifest destiny
500 years of resistance to the enemy
You have faith in the rivers, the mountains, the trees
We've a murdering god to replace all of these
With the blood of forgiveness you too can be free
Or the wrath of Jehovah you're sure to receive
We will baptize you with the blood of the lamb
With the sword and the gospel we will conquer your land
You will join our church and be glad to be saved
Or we'll slaughter your children and your women we'll rape.
Christians murdered Indians
I see blood on the hands of the master race.
RE: American Indians and firewater - HairOfTheDog - 02-12-2012
(02-12-2012, 07:52 PM)username Wrote: No, I don't believe they have a right to sue. That's capitalism at its finest!
The policing issue is a whole 'nother story. I read about it briefly...
The lack of enforcement is a separate issue from whether or not those stores have the right to sell beer. They do.
Quote snipped so nobody yells "trim your quotes bitch!".
In regards to the lawsuit, I think it's bunk. Some members of the tribes created a black market for a product that is perfectly legal to sell, in any quantity, by the liquor store owners, regardless of the fact that it's not legal to consume on much of the tribal land. I agree that it's primarily an enforcement issue, assuming the vast consumption is done on tribal land which prohibits it.
When this goes to court, the tribal attorneys could make a stronger case against the liquor store owners than the beer manufacturers, in my opinion. But those store owners don't have nearly as deep pockets. I don't think either the store owners or the manufacturers are liable, but it will be interesting to see how this plays out. I bet the attorneys will compare the liquor store owners to doctors who prescribe prescriptions pills in mass quantities. While the pills are legal to prescribe, some doctors are being successfully prosecuted and/or sued in a civil court for over-distribution when they should have known better. Of course, store owners don't have the duty to save lives, but I can see some analogies being used in a court case.
I don't see how the beer manufacturers can successfully be sued. I don't think (?) gun manufacturers or pharmaceutical companies have been successfully prosecuted/sued, though I know it's been attempted. The tribal attorneys probably hope the beer manufacturers will settle out of court. I dont' think they will; opens way too many doors.
I still wonder if alcohol wasn't banned altogether whether the problems would be better or worse. If the tribal police or BIA were more strict about enforcing laws prohibiting alcohol consumption on tribal land, how much of a difference would it make - how much is being consumed elsewhere anyway? IDK. Just wondering.
RE: American Indians and firewater - Cracker - 02-12-2012
(02-12-2012, 08:28 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: I dont' think they will; opens way too many doors.
Yep. It opens the door to every hillbilly and redneck and bro who gets a 40 on the way home from work (or first thing in the morning for those who can't be bothered to actually work).
RE: American Indians and firewater - aussiefriend - 02-12-2012
Hey Dick, what about a bit of Sharia law then? Hey? How 'bout that?
"one Nation under God". Ok, different cultures, different tribal laws etc. So how's 'bout bit of the old Sharia? You up for that? It could be argued in court that you are discriminating.
RE: American Indians and firewater - IMaDick - 02-12-2012
(02-12-2012, 09:18 PM)aussiefriend Wrote: Hey Dick, what about a bit of Sharia law then? Hey? How 'bout that?
"one Nation under God". Ok, different cultures, different tribal laws etc. So how's 'bout bit of the old Sharia? You up for that? It could be argued in court that you are discriminating.
That's what you're imposing on the natives in your land.
Those who are born to sharia and want to live under it should have the choice, but no one should shove any of another culture down anyones throats by removing their human right to choose their own path in life.
RE: American Indians and firewater - aussiefriend - 02-12-2012
Sorry (again), I just upchucked in my mouth. I am having that reaction everytime I read one of your posts lately.
RE: American Indians and firewater - IMaDick - 02-12-2012
(02-12-2012, 09:34 PM)aussiefriend Wrote: Sorry (again), I just upchucked in my mouth. I am having that reaction everytime I read one of your posts lately.
That's because you have been fucking wrong in every thread you try to be a genius in.
Try just being the dumb dyed haired screwed in the head bitch you really are and stop putting on airs.
RE: American Indians and firewater - aussiefriend - 02-12-2012
Yes Dick I am wrong, along with the laws in your 1 united country you live in. The laws are wrong, the constitution is wrong and you in your deluded sick world are right. I wonder what the Dick national anthem sounds like? Hang on, just let me
RE: American Indians and firewater - IMaDick - 02-12-2012
(02-12-2012, 09:41 PM)aussiefriend Wrote: Yes Dick I am wrong, along with the laws in your 1 united country you live in. The laws are wrong, the constitution is wrong and you in your deluded sick world are right. I wonder what the Dick national anthem sounds like? Hang on, just let me
Aussie natives in this country have dual citizenship.
RE: American Indians and firewater - username - 02-13-2012
(02-12-2012, 09:18 PM)aussiefriend Wrote: Hey Dick, what about a bit of Sharia law then? Hey? How 'bout that?
From what I read, criminal laws in the U.S. still apply to Indian reservations (for the most part). You can't just murder someone on an Indian reservation and escape prosecution (there are specific laws regarding criminal activities on Indian lands but basically it's not a free-for-all and for the most part, Indian reservations are subject to state and federal criminal laws). However, Indians do have the right to set their own laws (prohibiting alcohol for example) but those laws aren't U.S. laws so enforcing them is either a tribal issue or worked out with the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
RE: American Indians and firewater - username - 02-13-2012
(02-12-2012, 09:18 PM)aussiefriend Wrote: Hey Dick, what about a bit of Sharia law then? Hey? How 'bout that?
Honor killings don't fly in Canada...they wouldn't fly here either.
http://articles.pasadenasun.com/2012-02-11/news/31050620_1_honor-killings-islamic-leaders-muslim-women
RE: American Indians and firewater - aussiefriend - 02-13-2012
(02-13-2012, 01:14 AM)username Wrote: Honor killings don't fly in Canada...they wouldn't fly here either.
http://articles.pasadenasun.com/2012-02-11/news/31050620_1_honor-killings-islamic-leaders-muslim-women
Great derrs of history.
RE: American Indians and firewater - Sterling - 02-15-2012
(02-10-2012, 02:57 AM)aussiefriend Wrote:(02-10-2012, 12:07 AM)cladking Wrote: Indians have a lot of problems with alcohol but the Irish and then Germans aren't so far behind.
It's all very well to espouse these little bits of insight and wisdom but you need to back it up with a little thing called 'facts'.
The Irish are fine thank you very much.
Here's a few facts on the Irish you insipid bitch:
A higher proportion of Irish women who drink compared with women in other European countries (77% compared to 68%)
A study of women who attended the Coombe Women’s Hospital found that almost two‑thirds (63%) of the 43,318 women surveyed said they drank alcohol during their pregnancy. Alcohol consumption, particularly in the first three months of pregnancy, can lead to disorders in how the brain develops in the womb
High levels of alcohol use and heavy drinking among young women are reflected in the fact that one in four women discharged from hospital for alcohol‑related conditions were aged under 30, compared to 17% of men under 30 discharged
Alcohol-related problems cost Ireland an estimated €3.7 billion in 2007: that’s a cost of €3,318 on each person paying income tax in Ireland
And from the Australian Government's Department of Health and Ageing - Ireland is ranked fourth in the world in [per capita] alcohol consumption.
Fact - arrogant, drunken, stupid, fat bitch!
RE: American Indians and firewater - aussiefriend - 02-15-2012
Your 164 posts are such valued input into this forum.
There are really smart people out in the world, you are not one of them.
RE: American Indians and firewater - FAHQTOO - 02-15-2012
(02-15-2012, 08:39 PM)aussiefriend Wrote: Your 164 posts are such valued input into this forum.
There are really smart people out in the world, you are not one of them.
And what exactly have you contributed in your 2,461 posts?
Nothing but gibberish and mental breakdowns.