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+--- Thread: ANOTHER SCHOOL/PUBLIC SHOOTING (/thread-10743.html)
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RE: ANOTHER PUBLIC SHOOTING - Blindgreed1 - 08-06-2015
(08-06-2015, 06:10 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Yeah, so you're just talking about people showing less interest or losing interest more quickly these days in regards to news coverage (and/or events).I believe it does correlate HoTD. If people weren't looking for the next coolest/controversial thing to post in their FB feeds I don't think we'd see this phenomenon to the extent that we are seeing today.
I understand that you think that equates to desensitization. That's probably true in some cases.
What I didn't understand is how that is "part of the problem" when it comes to mass murders, as you originally posted. If anything, I'd imagine it would make for fewer mass murders if one believes that attention/fame is what the killers are after.
Anyway, thanks for responding Gunnar. I understand what you're saying about desensitization effecting the public's response to mass murder (not that desensitization is a problem which contributes to mass murder).
RE: ANOTHER PUBLIC SHOOTING - JsMom - 08-06-2015
(08-06-2015, 05:46 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:(08-06-2015, 05:18 PM)JsMom Wrote:(08-06-2015, 01:58 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote:(08-06-2015, 01:27 PM)JsMom Wrote: That's the problem. These mentally ill people can't get any fucking help, although, I know some wouldn't take it if they could.I think another part of the problem is the desensitizing of the public. Compare how the country reacted to Columbine to that of the most recent theater shootings. Everyone was more concerned about a poached lion a few days later than the shootings.
Valid point! For some.
Okay guys, I'm curious about the valid point, for some.
How does the contention that some of the public is desensitized to mass murders these days contribute to mass murders these days? I'm missing the connection; I don't see the former as being a problem that contributes to the latter.
Are you suggesting that if people were more shocked by mass murders or less concerned about a poached lion that there would be fewer mass murders (or more treatment for mentally ill people)?
I agree that some of us in this world are hardened by all the terror going on. It don't contribute to the mass murders, imo. And I wasn't referring to the lion.
RE: ANOTHER PUBLIC SHOOTING - HairOfTheDog - 08-06-2015
(08-06-2015, 06:15 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: I believe it does correlate HoTD. If people weren't looking for the next coolest/controversial thing to post in their FB feeds I don't think we'd see this phenomenon to the extent that we are seeing today.
People said that when the radio was commercialized, and the television became a household item, and Al Gore invented the internet, and cable news was launched, and now with the saturation of Facebook.
This last year has seen more mass murders and crime than in the past (as opposed to more crime coverage of less actual crime, which had been the trend for several years nationwide).
Mental illness is definitely a contributing factor to mass murder and crime. Shorter public attention spans, desensitized public responses due to more exposure, and Facebook are not contributors -- in my opinion.
But, I understand your opinion; different thought processes is all.
JsMom: good to know that you don't think you're contributing to mass murder, but cancel your Facebook just to be sure mamacita!!
RE: ANOTHER PUBLIC SHOOTING - Blindgreed1 - 08-06-2015
(08-06-2015, 06:53 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:I'm more than just a pretty/fat face.(08-06-2015, 06:15 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: I believe it does correlate HoTD. If people weren't looking for the next coolest/controversial thing to post in their FB feeds I don't think we'd see this phenomenon to the extent that we are seeing today.
People said that when the radio was commercialized, and the television became a household item, and Al Gore invented the internet, and cable news was launched, and now with the saturation of Facebook.
This last year has seen more mass murders and crime than in the past (as opposed to more crime coverage of less actual crime, which had been the trend for several years nationwide).
Mental illness is definitely a contributing factor to mass murder and crime. Shorter public attention spans, desensitized public responses due to more exposure, and Facebook are not contributors -- in my opinion.
But, I understand your opinion; different thought processes is all.
JsMom: good to know that you don't think you're contributing to mass murder, but cancel your Facebook just to be sure mamacita!!
RE: ANOTHER PUBLIC SHOOTING - Duchess - 08-06-2015
Hahaha!
RE: ANOTHER PUBLIC SHOOTING - HairOfTheDog - 08-26-2015
NEWS ANCHOR SHOT ON THE AIR - VIRGINIA
![[Image: 2BAE86B500000578-3211529-image-a-130_1440610093247.jpg]](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/08/26/18/2BAE86B500000578-3211529-image-a-130_1440610093247.jpg)
![[Image: 2BAE365E00000578-3211529-image-a-67_1440601379550.jpg]](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/08/26/16/2BAE365E00000578-3211529-image-a-67_1440601379550.jpg)
WDBJ-TV news reporter, Alison Parker - 24, was shot dead while conducting an on-air interview today. Her cameraman, 27-year-old Adam Ward, was also shot dead on the scene. Both are pictured above.
![[Image: 2BAEE24000000578-3211529-image-a-128_1440610077375.jpg]](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/08/26/18/2BAEE24000000578-3211529-image-a-128_1440610077375.jpg)
The shooter was their co-worker, ^ Bryce Williams - 41, whose real name was Vester Lee Flanagan. He escaped the scene and later shot himself to death.
The woman who was being interviewed by Parker was also hit with a bullet. She's in the hospital - no word yet on her condition.
Williams/Flanagan had sent a 23-page manifesto to ABC News. In it, he claims to have killed his co-workers because they were racists and because cameraman Ward had complained about him to Human Resources.
He also claimed to be responding to Dylann Roof's mass killing at the black church, "IF YOU WANT A RACE WAR...BRING IT ON", along with expressing his admiration of the Virginia Tech and Columbine shooters. He said Jehovah spoke to him, telling him to act.
Williams also wrote that he'd been a victim of bullying and attacks for being a gay black man.
President Obama's office expressed condolences to the families and re-iterated his desire to reduce gun violence with gun control legislation. Hillary Clinton tweeted, "Heartbroken and angry. We must act to stop gun violence, and we cannot wait any longer. Praying for the victims' families in Virginia. -H."
Unless Williams had a medical mental health record or felony conviction or acquired the gun illegally, I don't see how enforcement of any existing or new gun law could have stopped the disgruntled violent asshole, personally.
Refs:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/shooting-alleged-gunman-details-grievances-suicide-notes/story?id=33336339
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/26/us/virginia-shooting-wdbj/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3211529/WDBJ7-reporter-Alison-Parker-Adam-Ward-shot-live-TV-Moneta-gunman.html
RE: ANOTHER PUBLIC SHOOTING - Jimbone - 08-26-2015
Video from the news stations that was broadcasting live that morning AND video shot by the shooter as he committed the crime.
Warning: while the video is not bloody, it is disturbing. Don't follow the link if you're easily upset.
http://www.bestgore.com/murder/wdbj-reporter-alison-parker-cameraman-adam-ward-killed-during-live-broadcast/
RE: ANOTHER PUBLIC SHOOTING - HairOfTheDog - 08-26-2015
There's porn video playing alongside the shooting video on the site link posted by Jimbone.
If you just wanna see the shooting as it was filmed, here's that video.
RE: ANOTHER PUBLIC SHOOTING - Jimbone - 08-26-2015
Sorry about that. My ad blocker must have actually blocked them. You can delete the link.
RE: ANOTHER PUBLIC SHOOTING - HairOfTheDog - 08-26-2015
No worries, Jimbone.
People can choose whether they want their violence with a side of sex, or just a straight shot of violence.
RE: ANOTHER PUBLIC SHOOTING - Blindgreed1 - 08-26-2015
(08-26-2015, 05:11 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: No worries, Jimbone.The fact that he posted the video of him shooting these people to his FB reinforces my theory on why these sort of crimes seem to be escalating. I'm not gonna go all unibomber about it, but technology and it's effects on society really does seem to be following the path ole Ted described in his manifesto.
People can choose whether they want their violence with a side of sex, or just a straight shot of violence.
RE: ANOTHER PUBLIC SHOOTING - HairOfTheDog - 08-26-2015
I think the asshole would have killed whether Facebook existed or not.
He was full of hate and blame towards others. He killed during a live television broadcast and his name is all over news and non-Facebook media too.
Facebook is just another of many means by which to gain notoriety, not the cause or motivator of the killings. People like Williams were killing people in public long before Facebook was invented.
I disagree with your theory. But, I can't know for certain that nobody has ever or will ever kill for the primary or sole purpose of Facebook exposure, so it's just a difference of opinion.
RE: ANOTHER PUBLIC SHOOTING - Blindgreed1 - 08-26-2015
(08-26-2015, 05:53 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: I think the asshole would have killed whether Facebook existed or not.Not nearly as often as they do now, and when was the last time someone took video footage of it with the intent to broadcast it on social media? Never.
He was full of hate and blame towards others. He killed during a live television broadcast and his name is all over news and non-Facebook media too.
Facebook is just another of many means by which to gain notoriety, not the cause or motivator of the killings. People like Williams were killing people in public long before Facebook was invented.
I disagree with your theory. But, I can't know for certain that nobody has ever or will ever kill for the primary or sole purpose of Facebook exposure, so it's just a difference of opinion.
RE: ANOTHER PUBLIC SHOOTING - HairOfTheDog - 08-26-2015
I understand your thought process, I just think your correlation is off Gunnar.
Williams could have killed his co-workers off the air and filmed it, if his sole or primary motivator was broadcasting it on Facebook. But, he did it during a live television broadcast instead, which was sure to be seen. The Facebook broadcast was not a sure thing; he could have been killed at the murder scene and never had a chance to post it on Facebook.
I'm not a Facebook fan, but Facebook doesn't push more people to kill - in my opinion. Anybody who'd kill just for notoriety is whacked and would get notoriety by whatever means available. That's my thinking.
RE: ANOTHER PUBLIC SHOOTING - Blindgreed1 - 08-26-2015
(08-26-2015, 06:41 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: I understand your thought process, I just think your correlation is off Gunnar.You usually do.
Williams could have killed his co-workers off the air and filmed it, if his sole or primary motivator was broadcasting it on Facebook. But, he did it during a live television broadcast instead, which was sure to be seen. The Facebook broadcast was not a sure thing; he could have been killed at the murder scene and never had a chance to post it on Facebook.
I'm not a Facebook fan, but Facebook doesn't push more people to kill - in my opinion. Anybody who'd kill just for notoriety is whacked and would get notoriety by whatever means available. That's my thinking.
And I'm not saying FB pushes anyone to do anything. I'm saying it's a means for everyone to get their 15 minutes on their way out.
RE: ANOTHER PUBLIC SHOOTING - HairOfTheDog - 08-26-2015
(08-26-2015, 06:43 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote:(08-26-2015, 06:41 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: I understand your thought process, I just think your correlation is off Gunnar.You usually do.
Williams could have killed his co-workers off the air and filmed it, if his sole or primary motivator was broadcasting it on Facebook. But, he did it during a live television broadcast instead, which was sure to be seen. The Facebook broadcast was not a sure thing; he could have been killed at the murder scene and never had a chance to post it on Facebook.
I'm not a Facebook fan, but Facebook doesn't push more people to kill - in my opinion. Anybody who'd kill just for notoriety is whacked and would get notoriety by whatever means available. That's my thinking.
I thought you were still advocating this correlation: "If people weren't looking for the next coolest/controversial thing to post in their FB feeds I don't think we'd see this phenomenon to the extent that we are seeing today." I disagree with that.
But, no doubt Facebook is just another means by which to gain exposure -- no disagreement there.
RE: ANOTHER PUBLIC SHOOTING - Jimbone - 08-26-2015
I don't see it as much different than any of those assholes who have done things intentionally for full media exposure in the past. Bud Dwyer shot himself on live TV, as did a local reporter in Florida I believe while doing a report on suicide.
This douche was just using social media and the instantaneous nature of it. He was clearly a mental patient, so carrying out his final act with the subtle touch of narcissism isn't surprising.
RE: ANOTHER PUBLIC SHOOTING - HairOfTheDog - 08-27-2015
I caught part of a guy being interviewed on CNN last night. He was billed as an expert in mass shootings (sorry, missed his name).
Anyway, it was a strange interview. He was almost giving the CNN host and the station shit for covering the story, yet there he was being interviewed about it.
He is one of many who feels that intensive media coverage of such crimes pushes people with homicidal thoughts to carry through on them.
I think he's probably right when it comes to some killers; that the expected infamy is part of the lure. But, I also agree with the host; that people who are lured to follow through on serious fantasies about killing others are fucked up already. Who knows what will tip them over the edge and when.
I don't think the press and news networks should be restricted in what they can cover. But, it wouldn't bother me if they established policy towards shorter and more facts-only coverage. Whether that would actually reduce the number of incidents though, I don't know. Social media would still be active with all of details, comments by people who knew the killer/victims or witnessed the events, speculation, opinion...
In the end, you can't control people's curiosity and, in some ways, I think knowing about these types of killers and their behaviors helps the whole of the public to be aware and alert that they exist among us (and always have).
The killer in yesterday's mass shooting was an "injustice collector", just like Christopher Dorner, and the virgin Santa Barbara mass-murderer who had it out for all women, and so many others. All of them with histories of strange threatening behavior, rambling manifestos about how they were victims of the system, racism, women, whatever...and how their murderous acts were a form of vengeful justice.
I don't think there's any one way to prevent or deter people with such fucked-up mindsets or mental illness from taking it out on others, but a combination of efforts could help. Forced mental health incarceration in severe cases, less accessibility to weapons that make mass-murder much easier to pull off, fewer/reduced means by which to get their warped messages out and achieve notoriety -- all probably worthwhile efforts in combination, yet all potentially restricting the rights of perfectly normal people in the process. I don't get the sense that the majority of the American public wants to make that trade-off.
RE: ANOTHER PUBLIC SHOOTING - Blindgreed1 - 08-27-2015
(08-26-2015, 06:59 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:You can disagree all you want. Doesn't mean you're right. Doesn't mean I am. It's your opinion even if it sucks.(08-26-2015, 06:43 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote:(08-26-2015, 06:41 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: I understand your thought process, I just think your correlation is off Gunnar.You usually do.
Williams could have killed his co-workers off the air and filmed it, if his sole or primary motivator was broadcasting it on Facebook. But, he did it during a live television broadcast instead, which was sure to be seen. The Facebook broadcast was not a sure thing; he could have been killed at the murder scene and never had a chance to post it on Facebook.
I'm not a Facebook fan, but Facebook doesn't push more people to kill - in my opinion. Anybody who'd kill just for notoriety is whacked and would get notoriety by whatever means available. That's my thinking.
I thought you were still advocating this correlation: "If people weren't looking for the next coolest/controversial thing to post in their FB feeds I don't think we'd see this phenomenon to the extent that we are seeing today." I disagree with that.
But, no doubt Facebook is just another means by which to gain exposure -- no disagreement there.
RE: ANOTHER PUBLIC SHOOTING - HairOfTheDog - 08-27-2015
You say one thing, and then say that you said another.
I don't expect you to care whether I or anyone agrees or disagrees, especially when you can't decide if you agree or disagree with your own stated opinions (neither of which I thought sucked).
You know, you might have the makings of a successful politician Gunnar (not that I'd vote for your trifling ass, or that you'd care).
