+- Mock (https://mockforums.net)
+-- Forum: Serious Shit? (https://mockforums.net/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: Lady Cop's Cell Block - Crime Forum (https://mockforums.net/forum-21.html)
+--- Thread: 2 YR OLD DEORR KUNZ JR, MISSING FROM IDAHO CAMPGROUND (/thread-11978.html)
RE: 2 YR OLD DEORR KUNZ JR, MISSING FROM IDAHO CAMPGROUND - sally - 07-25-2015
Plus if he was never at the campsite then gramps and his friend would have to be in on the plot too. They kill the kid and then the four of them come up with an elaborate plan to go camping and pretend he went missing? I don't know.
RE: 2 YR OLD DEORR KUNZ JR, MISSING FROM IDAHO CAMPGROUND - HairOfTheDog - 07-25-2015
(07-25-2015, 05:43 AM)thekid65 Wrote: Probably a discussion for another thread, but I've got mixed feelings on this. I've occasionally wondered if I found myself in a situation to where I wanted to potentially eliminate myself as a suspect, if I'd take a lie detector. And I keep coming back to the same answer. No, I would not.
Although I have no facts or statistics to back this next statement up, I'm thinking the majority of lawyers would say no, do not take one. And there must be a reason for that, and as HotD correctly points out, generally, they are not admissible in court. Either the test itself is fallible, or perhaps it can be too subjective, or maybe it's because the administration of the test can not be done properly.
I simply would not want the focus of a criminal investigation to be on me simply because I was nervous as hell, or failed the test for any other possible reason.
We all know that innocent people do indeed get put in jail, and I'd hate for that reason to be based on what is obviously an unproven science. If it were a proven science, it would be admissible. If you fail a test, the focus pretty much turns solely on you.
Everything you said is correct according to my experience and research, Kid (I did a thesis on polygraph tests many moons ago).
However, in the case of a missing child, if there's little evidence pointing in a specific direction (as is true in this case), suspicion will lie on the parents or caregivers who lost the child -- no matter what police say publicly.
If those parents or caregivers refuse to take the poly, that suspicion is reinforced, "what are they trying to hide; what could be more important than moving the investigation forward to help find their child?" And, sadly, many times the parents or caregivers are involved.
So, I agree with Mark Klaas and other advocates for missing children that the parents or caregivers should take the test as soon as possible. Sometimes they pass with flying colors. Sometimes the results are inconclusive (which can be due to many factors, and that's still better for the parents or caregivers than refusing to take the test). And, sometimes they fail because they're lying about their involvement or they're lying about drug use or something unrelated to the disappearance. If the latter, it can be sorted out and the parents or caregivers can cop to unrelated lies and take the test again; they can show that they put finding their missing child ahead of anything else.
If my child went missing, I'd demand to take the polygraph test immediately. If I was suspected of any other crime, however, I'd probably refuse to take one in most cases, whether I was innocent or guilty.
RE: 2 YR OLD DEORR KUNZ JR, MISSING FROM IDAHO CAMPGROUND - HairOfTheDog - 07-27-2015
Grandpa's Friend Identified
It's now confirmed that he was at the campsite with gramps and little Deorr when the toddler "just disappeared".
![[Image: Isaac-Reinwand-300x195.jpg]](http://assets.eastidahonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/27085358/Isaac-Reinwand-300x195.jpg)
Isaac Reinwand ^, 35, of Idaho Falls, was at the Timber Creek Campground on July 10 alongside Deorr’s parents Jessica Mitchell and Deorr Kunz Sr. and his as yet unnamed great-grandfather, Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman confirmed.
The sheriff’s office had previously withheld Reinwand’s name, referring to him only as a family friend at the campsite. Over the weekend Reinwand’s name was widely publicized on social media, leading to Bowerman confirming the detail to EastIdahoNews.com
“Yes, he was at the scene,” Bowerman said in an email. “He’s (been) a personal friend of grandpa’s for about five years. We are treating him no differently than the family, he has been questioned numerous times, and has been to the scene with me.”
Bowerman said Reinwand, similar to Mitchell and Kunz, are “persons of interest” in this case because they were at the scene. However, at this time, neither Reinwand, Mitchell or Kunz are suspects in the missing persons case.
The great-grandfather, who authorities have not identified, also has not been labeled as a suspect. Authorities said his declining physical and mental health ruled him out at the beginning of the case. (HOTD: So, gramps was in no condition to watch a toddler and the parents left him and a virtual stranger to watch little Deorr?)
Over the weekend, Reinwand was repeatedly identified as a sex offender with an extensive criminal history in online forums and on social media. However, police and court documents dispute that assertion. The Idaho State Repository shows Reinwand was charged with felony rape in 2006, but that charge was amended down to misdemeanor domestic battery.Sheriff’s officials also have told EastIdahoNews.com Reinwand is not a sex offender. “He does have a criminal record, however the police reports are not consistent with his record (and I’m) not sure why,” Bowerman said in the email. Bowerman did not elaborate on the inconsistencies. (HOTD: mumbo jumbo.)
EastIdahoNews.com spoke with Reinwand briefly Monday morning on his doorstep. He confirmed Deorr was with him and the great-grandfather before he went missing, but Reinwand declined to answer further questions. “He just disappeared,” Reinwand said.
http://assets.eastidahonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/27085358/Isaac-Reinwand-300x195.jpg
RE: 2 YR OLD DEORR KUNZ JR, MISSING FROM IDAHO CAMPGROUND - Blindgreed1 - 07-27-2015
(07-27-2015, 11:52 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Grandpa's Friend IdentifiedSo he was found guilty by Facefuck. Awesome.
It's now confirmed that he was at the campsite with gramps and little Deorr when the toddler "just disappeared".
Isaac Reinwand ^, 35, of Idaho Falls, was at the Timber Creek Campground on July 10 alongside Deorr’s parents Jessica Mitchell and Deorr Kunz Sr. and his as yet unnamed great-grandfather, Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman confirmed.
The sheriff’s office had previously withheld Reinwand’s name, referring to him only as a family friend at the campsite. Over the weekend Reinwand’s name was widely publicized on social media, leading to Bowerman confirming the detail to EastIdahoNews.com
“Yes, he was at the scene,” Bowerman said in an email. “He’s (been) a personal friend of grandpa’s for about five years. We are treating him no differently than the family, he has been questioned numerous times, and has been to the scene with me.”
Bowerman said Reinwand, similar to Mitchell and Kunz, are “persons of interest” in this case because they were at the scene. However, at this time, neither Reinwand, Mitchell or Kunz are suspects in the missing persons case.
The great-grandfather, who authorities have not identified, also has not been labeled as a suspect. Authorities said his declining physical and mental health ruled him out at the beginning of the case. (HOTD: So, gramps was in no condition to watch a toddler and the parents left him and a virtual stranger to watch little Deorr?)
Over the weekend, Reinwand was repeatedly identified as a sex offender with an extensive criminal history in online forums and on social media. However, police and court documents dispute that assertion. The Idaho State Repository shows Reinwand was charged with felony rape in 2006, but that charge was amended down to misdemeanor domestic battery.Sheriff’s officials also have told EastIdahoNews.com Reinwand is not a sex offender. “He does have a criminal record, however the police reports are not consistent with his record (and I’m) not sure why,” Bowerman said in the email. Bowerman did not elaborate on the inconsistencies. (HOTD: mumbo jumbo.)
EastIdahoNews.com spoke with Reinwand briefly Monday morning on his doorstep. He confirmed Deorr was with him and the great-grandfather before he went missing, but Reinwand declined to answer further questions. “He just disappeared,” Reinwand said.
http://assets.eastidahonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/27085358/Isaac-Reinwand-300x195.jpg
RE: 2 YR OLD DEORR KUNZ JR, MISSING FROM IDAHO CAMPGROUND - sally - 07-27-2015
Well domestic violence doesn't necessarily make someone a child killer, but he sure does look like one.
RE: 2 YR OLD DEORR KUNZ JR, MISSING FROM IDAHO CAMPGROUND - Maggot - 07-27-2015
The court of public opinion is sometimes more powerful than the law itself.
RE: 2 YR OLD DEORR KUNZ JR, MISSING FROM IDAHO CAMPGROUND - HairOfTheDog - 07-27-2015
(07-27-2015, 12:13 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: So he was found guilty by Facefuck. Awesome.
No. Read the article.
Reinwand has not even been named a formal suspect, nor have the parents.
Reinwand and the parents are Persons of Interest, according to today's statement by the Sheriff. Gramps is cleared because he apparently doesn't have the mental and/or physical capacity to disappear a kid.
It appears to me that LE was withholding the name of Reinwand for a reason, Reinwand was lying very low for a reason, some people on social media knew he was at the campsite and started researching his background and hypothesizing, and so the Sheriff figured he needed to confirm/clarify Reinwand's current status in the investigation.
There are probably some people on social media who suspect that Reinwand is guilty of involvement and/or that one or both of the parents are guilty of involvement. They're entitled to their opinions.
It's certainly not odd for people to consider the last adult(s) to see a child before the child disappears to be a POI or potential suspect. It's standard and reasonable.
I have no idea if Reinwand was involved or not, but it interests me that he was in fact with gramps when gramps was reportedly supposed to be watching little Deorr.
RE: 2 YR OLD DEORR KUNZ JR, MISSING FROM IDAHO CAMPGROUND - sally - 07-27-2015
Unless the parents are lying about the time they were gone what could he have possibly done with the kid in 10 minutes. He obviously didn't disappear from the campsite at the time the kid went missing otherwise I imagine the parents would wonder where the hell Reinwand went.
RE: 2 YR OLD DEORR KUNZ JR, MISSING FROM IDAHO CAMPGROUND - HairOfTheDog - 07-27-2015
Reinwand is half gramps' age. I wonder if he is gramps' caregiver?
There are a lot of 'unless' and 'ifs' and unknowns in the timeline still.
So, I don't have a firm idea as to how long a person or animal had to prey upon and move Deorr (or how long Deorr was wandering alone, if that's what happened).
- We don't know if the parents asked gramps (and Reinwand) to watch Deorr while they reportedly explored, or if the parents just assumed gramps and Reinwand were watching Deorr when they left the campsite.
- We don't know if the parents searched for 20 minutes (after reportedly being away for 10-15 minutes) before calling 911, or if they instead searched for an hour, or if either of those scenarios is even valid. We don't know what Reinwand was doing while the parents were reportedly searching.
- We don't know if Reinwand and/or gramps rode with the family to the campsite or took another vehicle.
- We don't know the results of the parents' polys or whether Reinwand agreed to take one.
- We know Reinwand has a violent criminal record (and I know his criminal record includes sealed cases, but don't of course know what those cases entail).
Reinwand would be considered a POI even if he had no criminal record because he was apparently the last able-bodied person alone with the missing child and there's seemingly no known evidence as to what happened to little Deorr yet. The fact that Reinwand's identity was shielded for a couple of weeks (which is unusual, in my experience) certainly piqued public interest in him.
Anyway, I'm on the fence in this case; too many possibilities and too few available clues. I still won't be surprised if Deorr wandered off and drowned in the water, like little Sidney Heidrick did this weekend. I think it's less likely that an animal or bird got him, but it's possible. And, I won't be terribly shocked if one or more of the adults at the campsite is involved in Deorr's disappearance.
I hope Deorr is found soon.
RE: 2 YR OLD DEORR KUNZ JR, MISSING FROM IDAHO CAMPGROUND - Blindgreed1 - 07-27-2015
(07-27-2015, 12:28 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:My bad. I thought this was written: "Over the weekend, Reinwand was repeatedly identified as a sex offender with an extensive criminal history in online forums and on social media." Guess I need to work on my reading comprehension???(07-27-2015, 12:13 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: So he was found guilty by Facefuck. Awesome.
No. Read the article.
Reinwand has not even been named a formal suspect, nor have the parents.
Reinwand and the parents are Persons of Interest, according to today's statement by the Sheriff. Gramps is cleared because he apparently doesn't have the mental and/or physical capacity to disappear a kid.
It appears to me that LE was withholding the name of Reinwand for a reason, Reinwand was lying very low for a reason, some people on social media knew he was at the campsite and started researching his background and hypothesizing, and so the Sheriff figured he needed to confirm/clarify Reinwand's current status in the investigation.
There are probably some people on social media who suspect that Reinwand is guilty of involvement and/or that one or both of the parents are guilty of involvement. They're entitled to their opinions.
It's certainly not odd for people to consider the last adult(s) to see a child before the child disappears to be a POI or potential suspect. It's standard and reasonable.
I have no idea if Reinwand was involved or not, but it interests me that he was in fact with gramps when gramps was reportedly supposed to be watching little Deorr.
RE: 2 YR OLD DEORR KUNZ JR, MISSING FROM IDAHO CAMPGROUND - HairOfTheDog - 07-27-2015
(07-27-2015, 02:03 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: My bad. I thought this was written: "Over the weekend, Reinwand was repeatedly identified as a sex offender with an extensive criminal history in online forums and on social media." Guess I need to work on my reading comprehension???
I'm sorry, Gunnar. I misunderstood you, I think.
Reinwand was arrested and indicted on rape charges as far as I can see, but you're right that he was not convicted of rape and instead pleaded to domestic violence.
I don't know if those social media commenters to whom the Sheriff referred had wrongly labeled Reinwand legally guilty of rape (sex offense), or if those commenters know something I don't in regards to the sealed cases.
Anyway, here's the reluctant interview with Reinwand from this morning.
RE: 2 YR OLD DEORR KUNZ JR, MISSING FROM IDAHO CAMPGROUND - Duchess - 07-27-2015
He's not very bright.
RE: 2 YR OLD DEORR KUNZ JR, MISSING FROM IDAHO CAMPGROUND - sally - 07-27-2015
I wouldn't leave my 2 year old with that weirdo and great grandpa who has alzheimers, that's for sure. What an odd story.
RE: 2 YR OLD DEORR KUNZ JR, MISSING FROM IDAHO CAMPGROUND - Love Child - 07-27-2015
Its wierd that the guy isn't like, "OMG it is such a tragedy, it is awful" etc etc. The guy shows no emotion about the incident.
RE: 2 YR OLD DEORR KUNZ JR, MISSING FROM IDAHO CAMPGROUND - Carsman - 07-28-2015
Enough time has now passed without even the slightest clue as to what happened to this poor kid, seems like it may/will not be solved. Unless the weirdo in the video (supposedly cleared) & or the parents (supposedly cleared) becomes a factor. Baffling!
RE: 2 YR OLD DEORR KUNZ JR, MISSING FROM IDAHO CAMPGROUND - sally - 07-28-2015
I was just assuming that gramps and his friend had the mental capacity to know what's going on, but now it seems that gramps is confused and doesn't remember what he ate for breakfast and the friend sounds like he might be intellectually disabled. So maybe the parents did do something to the kid without them knowing.
RE: 2 YR OLD DEORR KUNZ JR, MISSING FROM IDAHO CAMPGROUND - HairOfTheDog - 07-28-2015
(07-28-2015, 10:25 AM)Carsman Wrote: Enough time has now passed without even the slightest clue as to what happened to this poor kid, seems like it may/will not be solved. Unless the weirdo in the video (supposedly cleared) & or the parents (supposedly cleared) becomes a factor. Baffling!
The way LE words things when making public statements during missing persons and criminal investigations is sometimes confusing. They don't want to give away information that they think will harm the investigation, but they sometimes feel motivated or obligated to respond to public interest.
In this case, the only person who has been "cleared" is gramps. The sheriff said yesterday that he "was ruled out early on" because of his declining mental and physical health.
The parents and Reinwand are not cleared. The sheriff said all three are Persons of Interest (POIs). Mom Jessica Mitchell, Dad Deorr Kunz, and gramps' friend Isaac Reinwand are all considered POIs because they were at the scene of the potential crime, they are part of the investigation, and they have not been ruled-out/cleared.
Very rarely will LE publicly label a person a "suspect" before they have enough evidence to file charges. LE almost always publicly keeps individuals classified as POIs unless/until they have such evidence.
So, gramps is cleared. The three other adults at the campsite are all POIs. And, there are no official suspects in the case at this point.
The sheriff has said that all three POIs have been cooperative and that the parents were "solid" in the past. It's common for such statements to be made in missing person cases because LE either (1) can't rule-out/clear the POIs but doesn't believe they're involved, or (2) suspects the POIs are involved but doesn't have enough evidence to file charges and doesn't want the POIs to stop talking or the public to stop looking for the missing person. Also, LE doesn't want to hand a defense attorney alternate suspects if they end up charging someone else down the line.
RE: 2 YR OLD DEORR KUNZ JR, MISSING FROM IDAHO CAMPGROUND - Carsman - 07-28-2015
The POI's if in fact turn out to be involved, they will have been fantastic magicians to make the kid disappear without a trace! No blood, no scent, no nothing! Just vanished.
RE: 2 YR OLD DEORR KUNZ JR, MISSING FROM IDAHO CAMPGROUND - sally - 07-28-2015
I don't believe it was accidental anymore. If he fell in the water or got lost they would have found him by now. No?
RE: 2 YR OLD DEORR KUNZ JR, MISSING FROM IDAHO CAMPGROUND - HairOfTheDog - 07-28-2015
Sadly, it doesn't take a magician or a genius to disappear a person without a trace, Cars. Some unsophisticated teens have been able to conceal murders in missing persons cases for longer than a couple of weeks, and many unsophisticated adults have concealed murders in such cases for decades.
Trained tracking and cadaver dogs don't always hit on a missing person's scent or decomp even when the missing person or his/her body had recently been at the location. Trained dogs also sometimes register false positives; they hit at locations that the missing person is later proven never to have been. The dogs are really helpful tools sometimes, but there are a lot of factors that impact their effectiveness.
Absence of blood at a spot doesn't mean the missing person wasn't attacked/killed there. Strangulation and suffocation are common manners of death that often don't involve blood spill. Deorr could have been killed at the campsite without leaving any traces of blood.
Sally:
The search expert interviewed last week indicated that a body in a location like Timber Creek would rise to the surface after about 3 weeks of decomp. Deorr will have been missing 3 weeks on 7/31.
I now think the chances of accidental death are slimmer too, because nothing belonging to little Deorr has turned up anywhere and he was reportedly fully clothed, booted, and had a truck in his pocket when he disappeared. Also, I am suspicious of Reinwand now that we know a little more about him and now that it's confirmed that he was alone with gramps and little Deorr when the boy supposedly "just disappeared". I'm not convinced he's involved, but I suspect that he could be.