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ERIC GARNER, CHOKED TO DEATH BY NYPD - username - 12-03-2014
No indictment in the Gardner case either. Time to break out the plywood in NY.
We'll see.
RE: Ferguson - Duchess - 12-03-2014
(12-03-2014, 04:17 PM)username Wrote: No indictment in the Gardner case either. Time to break out the plywood in NY.
We'll see.
Sorry to read that. I thought it was excessive force. Now I want to know if we'll be allowed to read a transcript. DA's never seem to have a problem getting indictments yet here are 2 recent ones involving LE and there is no indictment.
RE: Ferguson - username - 12-03-2014
(12-03-2014, 05:07 PM)Duchess Wrote:(12-03-2014, 04:17 PM)username Wrote: No indictment in the Gardner case either. Time to break out the plywood in NY.
We'll see.
Sorry to read that. I thought it was excessive force. Now I want to know if we'll be allowed to read a transcript. DA's never seem to have a problem getting indictments yet here are 2 recent ones involving LE and there is no indictment.
I've heard that the transcripts won't be released. I gather that the release of the transcripts in Ferguson was a rare occurrence. Then again, if a mob starts burning the city down, ya' never know.
BTW, it's Garner, not Gardner as I typed above. Oops. I'm sure the video has been posted elsewhere but this is sad IMO.
RE: Ferguson - Maggot - 12-03-2014
That fat fuck had a heart attack right? He seems very stressed out from the git go.
RE: Ferguson - username - 12-03-2014
(12-03-2014, 05:25 PM)Maggot Wrote: That fat fuck had a heart attack right? He seems very stressed out from the git go.
The cause of Garner's death was "compression of neck (choke hold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police," the medical examiner's office has said. The death was ruled a homicide.
The New York City Police Department prohibits choke holds.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/justice/new-york-grand-jury-chokehold/
Crazy that it can be ruled a homicide without an indictment. I would think the case would at least be worthy of a charge of involuntary manslaughter (at minimum).
HotD can explain it to us.
(12-03-2014, 05:41 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Come sit on the couch with me and I'll tell you all about it, French Fry.
Homicide just means that the deceased didn't die of natural causes or suicide; the person died as result of someone else's actions.
While Garner died due to the choke hold compression applied by NYPD cops, the grand jury apparently didn't believe that there was evidence to suggest the cops used unnecessary force in restraining Garner in that manner, and they didn't believe that the cops intended or could have reasonably foreseen that the choke hold restraint would result in death. Thus, the grand jury ruled that no probable cause existed to substantiate murder or manslaughter charges. No indictment. --- That's my take.
I haven't followed the case closely. Based on the video alone, I believe the officers should have been indicted.
RE: Ferguson - Duchess - 12-03-2014
Yes, it's very sad. They killed him. This happens all the time, daily around the United States, not the deaths but the...I'm trying to find a word that's not as strong as harassment. Many black men go through this, maybe not as forcefully but often they are stopped simply for walking down the street.
I saw something a few months ago, it must have been on the Today Show, it was of an older black man pulled over in a white, well to do neighborhood. He was pulled over for nothing more than being dark skinned in a nice white 'hood. All the women of the house on that street ran out into the street trying to convince the police not to take him away, he was the handyman for these women, that's what he was doing there, working.
RE: Ferguson - HairOfTheDog - 12-03-2014
(12-03-2014, 05:52 PM)username Wrote: Damn. You're good! It's still terribly sad but I can understand that a policeman wouldn't expect someone to die under those circumstances. Still, the officer used a hold that is prohibited in LE procedures in NY. Given that, I'd still find the officer partially at fault/at least negligent. I imagine the family has filed a big, fat civil suit over it.
Remember how those officers who compressed and bashed Kelly Thomas (RIP) to death --while he cried for his dad-- were acquitted? Fuckers. http://mockforums.net/showthread.php?tid=6160
In Kelly's case at least the brutal cops were indicted, undoubtedly because his dad (who was a retired ranking LEO) advocated so hard to get justice for his son.
The fact that those officers weren't convicted (especially Ramos) of at least Kelly's manslaughter, despite the whole compression and beating being caught on tape, leaves me pretty unsurprised when other inequities in the judicial system occur in cases of police officer(s) vs. civilians.
RE: Ferguson & St. Louis, MO -- Deaths and Protests - Duchess - 12-03-2014
(12-03-2014, 04:17 PM)username Wrote: No indictment in the Gardner case either.
The Mayor of NYC is not happy about that.
In a direct and sometimes passionate speech from Staten Island this evening, de Blasio risked the ire of the NYPD by making his dissatisfaction with the failure of the jury panel not to charge Officer Daniel Pantaleo abundantly clear.
An emotional de Blasio said the decision of a grand jury not to indict the officer who who put Eric Garner into a fatal chokehold was, 'A very painful day for so many New Yorkers.'
In a deeply personal and heartfelt address, the mayor, who is married to an African American woman, said that when he spoke to Eric Garner's bereaved father, 'I couldn't help but immediately think of what it would mean to me to lose (his son) Dante.'
With barely a word of support for the NYPD or their cleared officer, de Blasio's used his own son to explain that he knows the struggle and frustration that black people feel when dealing with police in New York City.
'We've had to talk to Dante for years about dangers he may face,' said de Blasio about the infamous 'talk' many parents of African American or mixed-race children have nationwide.
'I've had to worry over the years..Is my child safe? And not just from harsh realities…crimes and violence…are they safe from the people they want to have faith in (cops)?'
Story
RE: Ferguson & St. Louis, MO -- Deaths and Protests - Duchess - 12-03-2014
...aaaaand now the Department of Justice is involved and investigating.
RE: Ferguson & St. Louis, MO -- Deaths and Protests - FAHQTOO - 12-03-2014
I can agree with the protesters on this one.
RE: Ferguson & St. Louis, MO -- Deaths and Protests - username - 12-03-2014
(12-03-2014, 08:34 PM)FAHQTOO Wrote: I can agree with the protesters on this one.
j/k. I don't think the cop that put him in a choke hold intended to kill him but he shouldn't have used a move that is against LE procedures in NY AND, it just pains me to watch the video. I don't know if anyone else hears the same thing, but before he's even grabbed, Garner sounds like he's near tears to me. He's just really, freaking tired of being harassed for pretty much stupid shit time and again. "Just leave me alone, please". And then, when he says over and over "I can't breathe", his words are ignored. All because he was maybe selling single cigarettes and irritating the local business owners?
I read somewhere that lemonade stands are illegal in some states...might as well choke hold those little bastards too.
RE: Ferguson & St. Louis, MO -- Deaths and Protests - Duchess - 12-03-2014
I just heard someone say that if that 14 minute video showing exactly what went down and no indictment was forthcoming what makes us think cop cams would be a success.
RE: Ferguson & St. Louis, MO -- Deaths and Protests - Midwest Spy - 12-03-2014
What a disturbing video to watch. I can understand why everyone's outraged.
Once the man has been brought to the ground the chokehold should have ceased immediately. There's also about 10 officers there.
This should've been pretty easy to get an indictment. I'm baffled.
Someone needs to be held accountable.
RE: Ferguson & St. Louis, MO -- Deaths and Protests - HairOfTheDog - 12-04-2014
(12-03-2014, 09:44 PM)Duchess Wrote: I just heard someone say that if that 14 minute video showing exactly what went down and no indictment was forthcoming what makes us think cop cams would be a success.
The body cams aren't necessarily gonna change the outcome when there is already other video/audio available.
But, when an incident goes down and there is no surveillance or eyewitness video, the body cams (and dash cams) provide a key piece of evidence.
If no one had recorded the Garner choke-hold incident, there would only have been a verbal police narrative as to what went down. Dead guys can't talk and eyewitnesses are inconsistent. We probably would have never heard of it. It woulda likely been positioned as just another case of a big black thug who resisted arrest and had to be killed by cops in self defense. A small blip in the news.
Body cams help ensure that both sides are at least visually represented when the incident narrative is told, in any environment.
RE: Ferguson & St. Louis, MO -- Deaths and Protests - HairOfTheDog - 12-04-2014
(12-03-2014, 08:34 PM)FAHQTOO Wrote: I can agree with the protesters on this one.
Me too. We're not alone. This one isn't over yet.
Snip:
Attorney General Eric Holder announced Wednesday that the Justice Department will conduct a civil rights investigation into the death of Eric Garner, a black man who died after being placed in a chokehold by New York City Police Officer Daniel Pantaleo.
Holder's announcement came shortly after a Staten Island grand jury declined to indict Pantaleo in Garner's death.
"Prosecutors will conduct an independent, thorough, fair and expeditious investigation," Holder said. "The department will conduct a complete review of the material gathered during the local investigation."
"We’ve all seen the video of Mr. Garner’s death," Holder said. "His death, of course, was a tragedy. All lives must be valued. All lives."
Loretta Lynch, the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of New York and the current nominee to replace Holder, responded to the decision in a statement of her own.
“Since the death of Eric Garner last July, our office has monitored this case closely. At the outset, informed by prior experience and in keeping with the standard practice in these types of cases in New York, the local investigation proceeded first," Lynch said. "As the Attorney General explained earlier tonight, because the local investigation has come to a close, the Justice Department will now move forward with its own independent inquiry to determine whether federal civil rights laws have been violated."
Story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/justice-department-eric-garner_n_6264928.html
This is a case where I'm actually glad to see the feds intervene.
RE: Ferguson & St. Louis, MO -- Deaths and Protests - Duchess - 12-04-2014
(12-04-2014, 12:33 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Body cams help ensure that both sides are at least visually represented when the incident narrative is told, in any environment.
I believe that but that comment struck me as being valid as well.
I was listening to a bunch of talking heads last night. A few people were blowing off his death and scoffing at his "I can't breathe" statement. One man laughed and said, if he couldn't breathe he wouldn't have been able to say he couldn't breathe.
More & more I am thinking professional juries might be the way to go.
RE: ERIC GARNER -- CHOKED TO DEATH BY NYPD - HairOfTheDog - 12-04-2014
I don't know about doing away with peer juries and moving to professional juries or judges for all cases, Duchess.
I would like to see an unbiased legal/research organization conduct a study by presenting cases that have already been decided (by peer grand and trial juries) to professional juries and (separately) to recently retired judges.
For me, it would be important to understand the differences in the decisions/verdicts reached by each of the three types of judgement bodies, along with the rationale behind the verdicts/decisions of each. I'd wanna be sure there was a notable difference in the outcomes and, if so, that the professional juries' decisions were generally considered more just (as determined by unbiased legal experts and a sample of the general public) before advocating to abolish peer juries and move to professional ones.
RE: ERIC GARNER -- CHOKED TO DEATH BY NYPD - HairOfTheDog - 12-04-2014
A Couple of Today's Cover Stories...
![[Image: 10679616_10152396391232541_1347527622258823371_o.jpg]](https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/p640x640/10679616_10152396391232541_1347527622258823371_o.jpg)
![[Image: B3_zcWtCcAAN_Rw.jpg:large]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3_zcWtCcAAN_Rw.jpg:large)
RE: ERIC GARNER -- CHOKED TO DEATH BY NYPD - HairOfTheDog - 12-04-2014
The Civil Claim/Suit
Eric Garner was killed while being restrained by NYPD officers in July of 2014. The by-stander cell phone video of the incident is a very good and clear one; see post 3.
The family of Eric Garner filed a claim against the city in October of 2014. The claim names the NYPD and several specific officers.
The claim, which says the suit will ask for $75 million, maintains that Mr. Garner’s death was a direct result of the actions of the police. It says officers acted “recklessly and negligently” in wrestling him to the ground using a chokehold, a procedure that has long been banned by the department.
It cites the finding of the city’s medical examiner, who ruled the death a homicide and found that Mr. Garner died from a chokehold and the compression of his chest by police officers.
While the report found that Mr. Garner’s poor health was a contributing factor, it was not the primary cause of his death. (I think the fact that Mr. Garner, 43, had other health problems probably figured heavily in the grand jury's decision not to indict Officer Daniel Pantaleo - JMO).
The claim accuses the officers and their employer of wrongful death, assault, battery, intentional infliction of emotional distress, negligent supervision, and negligent training, among other injuries.
I think that the Garner family stands a good chance of winning the suit if it makes it to civil court.
Ref: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/08/nyregion/eric-garners-family-to-sue-new-york-city-over-chokehold-case.html
RE: ERIC GARNER -- CHOKED TO DEATH BY NYPD - HairOfTheDog - 12-04-2014
Legal Experts Weigh-In on Grand Jury Decision
A grand jury of 23 spent 3 month reviewing evidence presented by a prosecutor before deciding there was no reasonable cause to charge chokehold officer Daniel Panteleo (who's on modified duty with NYPD).
Here's what some legal experts are saying about the grand juries decision not to indict.
While legal experts note it's impossible to know how the grand jurors reached their conclusion, they say the Garner case, like Michael Brown's death in Ferguson, Missouri, once again raised concerns about the influence local prosecutors have over the process of charging the police officers they work with on a daily basis.
"The video speaks for itself," said Jeffrey Fagan, a professor at Columbia Law School. "It appears to show negligence. But if we learned anything from the Brown case, it's the power of prosecutors to construct and manage a narrative in a way that can shape the outcome."
Ekow N. Yankah, a professor at Cardozo School of Law, agreed that, "It is hard to understand how a jury doesn't see any probable cause that a crime has been committed or is being committed when looking at that video, especially."
Another observer, James A. Cohen, who teaches at Fordham University Law School, went further, saying, "Logic doesn't play a role in this process."
Story: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/eric-garner-chokehold-case-grand-jury-decision-prosecutors-charging-police/