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Do all black lives matter, or only those killed by cops? - cannongal - 07-12-2016
Black grandmother goes on a rant:
Former black Marine went on Rant in 2015:
Facebook Rant by Black cop in Florida:
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/07/10/riveting-post-by-black-police-officer-confronts-blm-with-raw-honesty-and-every-american-needs-to-see-it-363067
Copy/paste of post:
I have come to realize something that is still hard for me to understand to this day. The following may be a shock to some coming from an African American, but the mere fact that it may be shocking to some is prima facie evidence of the sad state of affairs that we are in as Humans.
I used to be so torn inside growing up. Here I am, a young African-American born and raised in Brooklyn, NY wanting to be a cop. I watched and lived through the crime that took place in the hood. My own black people killing others over nothing. Crack heads and heroin addicts lined the lobby of my building as I shuffled around them to make my way to our 1 bedroom apartment with 6 of us living inside. I used to be woken up in the middle of the night by the sound of gun fire, only to look outside and see that it was 2 African Americans shooting at each other.
It never sat right with me. I wanted to help my community and stop watching the blood of African Americans spilled on the street at the hands of a fellow black man. I became a cop because black lives in my community, along with ALL lives, mattered to me, and wanted to help stop the bloodshed.
As time went by in my law enforcement career, I quickly began to realize something. I remember the countless times I stood 2 inches from a young black man, around my age, laying on his back, gasping for air as blood filled his lungs. I remember them bleeding profusely with the unforgettable smell of deoxygenated dark red blood in the air, as it leaked from the bullet holes in his body on to the hot sidewalk on a summer day. I remember the countless family members who attacked me, spit on me, cursed me out, as I put up crime scene tape to cordon off the crime scene, yelling and screaming out of pain and anger at the sight of their loved ones taking their last breath. I never took it personally, I knew they were hurting. I remember the countless times I had to order new uniforms, because the ones I had on, were bloody from the blood of another black victim…of black on black crime. I remember the countless times I got back in my patrol car, distraught after having watched another black male die in front me, having to start my preliminary report something like this:
Suspect- Black/ Male, Victim-Black /Male.
I remember the countless times I canvassed the area afterwards, and asked everyone “did you see who did it”, and the popular response from the very same family members was always, “Fuck the Police, I ain't no snitch, Im gonna take care of this myself". This happened every single time, every single homicide, black on black, and then my realization became clearer.
I woke up every morning, put my freshly pressed uniform on, shined my badge, functioned checked my weapon, kissed my wife and kid, and waited for my wife to say the same thing she always does before I leave, “Make sure you come back home to us”. I always replied, “I will”, but the truth was I was never sure if I would. I almost lost my life on this job, and every call, every stop, every moment that I had this uniform on, was another possibility for me to almost lose my life again. I was a target in the very community I swore to protect, the very community I wanted to help. As a matter of fact, they hated my very presence. They called me “Uncle Tom”, and “wanna be white boy”, and I couldn’t understand why. My own fellow black men and women attacking me, wishing for my death, wishing for the death of my family. I was so confused, so torn, I couldn’t understand why my own black people would turn against me, when every time they called …I was there. Every time someone died….I was there. Every time they were going through one of the worst moments in their lives…I was there. So why was I the enemy? I dove deep into that question…Why was I the enemy? Then my realization became clearer.
I spoke to members of the community and listened to some of the complaints as to why they hated cops. I then did research on the facts. I also presented facts to these members of the community, and listened to their complaints in response. This is what I learned:
Complaint: Police always targeting us, they always messing with the black man.
Fact: A city where the majority of citizens are black (Baltimore for example) …will ALWAYS have a higher rate of black people getting arrested, it will ALWAYS have a higher rate of blacks getting stopped, and will ALWAYS have a higher rate of blacks getting killed, and the reason why is because a city with those characteristics will ALWAYS have a higher rate of blacks committing crime. The statistics will follow the same trend for Asians if you go to China, for Hispanics if you go to Puerto Rico, for whites if you go to Russia, and the list goes on. It’s called Demographics
Complaint: More black people get arrested than white boys.
Fact: Black People commit a grossly disproportionate amount of crime. Data from the FBI shows that Nationwide, Blacks committed 5,173 homicides in 2014, whites committed 4,367. Chicago’s death toll is almost equal to that of both wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, combined. Chicago’s death toll from 2001–November, 26 2015 stands at 7,401. The combined total deaths during Operation Iraqi Freedom (2003-2015: 4,815) and Operation Enduring Freedom/Afghanistan (2001-2015: 3,506), total 8,321.
Complaint: Blacks are the only ones getting killed by police, or they are killed more.
Fact: As of July 2016, the breakdown of the number of US Citizens killed by Police this year is, 238 White people killed, 123 Black people killed, 79 Hispanics, 69 other/or unknown race.
Fact: Black people kill more other blacks than Police do, and there are only protest and outrage when a cop kills a black man. University of Toledo criminologist Dr. Richard R. Johnson examined the latest crime data from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports and Centers for Disease Control and found that an average of 4,472 black men were killed by other black men annually between Jan. 1, 2009, and Dec. 31, 2012. Professor Johnson’s research further concluded that 112 black men died from both justified and unjustified police-involved killings annually during this same period.
Complaint: Well we already doing a good job of killing ourselves, we don’t need the Police to do it. Besides they should know better.
The more I listened, the more I realized. The more I researched, the more I realized. I would ask questions, and would only get emotional responses & inferences based on no facts at all. The more killing I saw, the more tragedy, the more savagery, the more violence, the more loss of life of a black man at the hands of another black man….the more I realized.
I haven’t slept well in the past few nights. Heartbreak weighs me down, rage flows through my veins, and tears fills my eyes. I watched my fellow officers assassinated on live television, and the images of them laying on the ground are seared into my brain forever. I couldn’t help but wonder if it had been me, a black man, a black cop, on TV, assassinated, laying on the ground dead,..would my friends and family still think black lives mattered? Would my life have mattered? Would they make t-shirts in remembrance of me? Would they go on tv and protest violence? Would they even make a Facebook post, or share a post in reference to my death?
All of my realizations came to this conclusion. Black Lives do not matter to most black people. Only the lives that make the national news matter to them. Only the lives that are taken at the hands of cops or white people, matter. The other thousands of lives lost, the other black souls that I along with every cop, have seen taken at the hands of other blacks, do not matter. Their deaths are unnoticed, accepted as the “norm”, and swept underneath the rug by the very people who claim and post “black lives matter”. I realized that this country is full of ignorance, where an educated individual will watch the ratings-driven news media, and watch a couple YouTube video clips, and then come to the conclusion that they have all the knowledge they need to have in order to know what it feels like to have a bullet proof vest as part of your office equipment, “Stay Alive” as part of your daily to do list, and having insurance for your health insurance because of the high rate of death in your profession. They watch a couple videos and then they magically know in 2 minutes 35 seconds, how you are supposed to handle a violent encounter, which took you 6 months of Academy training, 2 – 3 months of field training, and countless years of blood, sweat, tears and broken bones experiencing violent encounters and fine tuning your execution of the Use of Force Continuum. I realized that there are even cops, COPS, duly sworn law enforcement officers, who are supposed to be decent investigators, who will publicly go on the media and call other white cops racist and KKK, based on a video clip that they watched thousands of miles away, which was filmed after the fact, based on a case where the details aren’t even known yet and the investigation hasn’t even begun. I realized that most in the African American community refuse to look at solving the bigger problem that I see and deal with every day, which is black on black crime taking hundreds of innocent black lives each year, and instead focus on the 9 questionable deaths of black men, where some were in the act of committing crimes. I realized that they value the life of a Sex Offender and Convicted Felon, [who was in the act of committing multiple felonies: felon in possession of a firearm-FELONY, brandishing and threatening a homeless man with a gun-Aggravated Assault in Florida: FELONY, who resisted officers who first tried to taze him, and WAS NOT RESTRAINED, who can be clearly seen in one of the videos raising his right shoulder, then shooting it down towards the right side of his body exactly where the firearm was located and recovered] more than the lives of the innocent cops who were assassinated in Dallas protecting the very people that hated them the most. I realized that they refuse to believe that most cops acknowledge that there are Bad cops who should have never been given a badge & gun, who are chicken shit and will shoot a cockroach if it crawls at them too fast, who never worked in the hood and may be intimidated. That most cops dread the thought of having to shoot someone, and never see the turmoil and mental anguish that a cop goes through after having to kill someone to save his own life. Instead they believe that we are all blood thirsty killers, because the media says so, even though the numbers prove otherwise. I realize that they truly feel as if the death of cops will help people realize the false narrative that Black Lives Matter, when all it will do is take their movement two steps backwards and label them domestic terrorist. I realized that some of these people, who say Black Lives Matter, are full of hate and racism. Hate for cops, because of the false narrative that more black people are targeted and killed. Racism against white people, for a tragedy that began 100’s of years ago, when most of the white people today weren’t even born yet. I realized that some in the African American community’s idea of “Justice” is the prosecution of ANY and EVERY cop or white man that kills or is believed to have killed a black man, no matter what the circumstances are. I realized the African American community refuses to look within to solve its major issues, and instead makes excuses and looks outside for solutions. I realized that a lot of people in the African American community lead with hate, instead of love. Division instead of Unity. Turmoil and rioting, instead of Peace. I realized that they have become the very entity that they claim they are fighting against.
I realized that the very reasons I became a cop, are the very reasons my own people hate me, and now in this toxic hateful racially charged political climate, I am now more likely to die,... and it is still hard for me to understand…. to this day.
*****************************
I know I'm narrow minded, but I really have to ask, If black lives really matter, why aren't they protesting all the random killing in Chicago? In one weekend (this past weekend, actually) there were 4 Killed, 39 Wounded In Weekend Shootings Across Chicago. Please tell me how this is acceptable, but the shooting of the man in Florida is not.
RE: Do all black lives matter, or only those killed by cops? - Maggot - 07-12-2016
Its easier to blame the establishment than it is to blame themselves.
RE: Do all black lives matter, or only those killed by cops? - Duchess - 07-12-2016
They don't seem to matter when they are killing each other. If you don't value your own life how can you value someone else's?
RE: Do all black lives matter, or only those killed by cops? - QueenBee - 07-12-2016
(07-12-2016, 12:28 PM)Duchess Wrote:
They don't seem to matter when they are killing each other. If you don't value your own life how can you value someone else's?
I was about to say the same thing....do your lives only matter if someone of an other race is doing the killing??
RE: Do all black lives matter, or only those killed by cops? - HairOfTheDog - 07-12-2016
Not all black people think alike, of course. I respect and agree with some of sentiments expressed by the individuals in the OP.
I also respect and agree with some of the sentiments of the black surgeon who worked around the clock to care for the Dallas shooting victims. He emotionally admitted that he was sickened by the violence against police, while also admitting that he felt conflicted because his life experiences have led him to fear police and feel sickened by what he sees as some of the unjustified shootings of people of color at the hands of police.
The surgeon was interviewed yesterday, alongside his very close friend (a white male police officer); the two hope that the country can finally start addressing its differences and looking for solutions in the same way they do privately in their friendship. Me too.
Two male black members of Congress were also interviewed yesterday. They are staunchly pro-police and condemn all violence. They shared their stories of being pulled over and targeted by police when they're not in suit and tie, despite doing nothing suspicious or illegal. They, like I, don't' feel conflicted in supporting police and condemning violence while also supporting systemic reform and accountability for willfully bad cops and/or corrupt departments.
Anyway, if the Black Lives Matter movement/policy was promoting the killing of police officers or anyone else, I'd denounce them. They're not, but some black radical groups and protesters are directly or indirectly doing so and I consider them domestic terrorists who hurt the cause.
I support BLM's efforts to bring some of the serious problems related to our criminal justice system to the forefront and push for national change, even though a lot of people who are least affected by the problems don't want to hear it. I think BLM has succeeded on that front and that benefits black lives and all lives, in my opinion.
Better hiring/screening processes for police officers, diversionary programs for youth in Chicago and other high-crime urban areas, better training in de-escalation strategies and situational assessment, more diversity and police training in dealing with the mentally ill, mandatory police body cams to more effectively deter/address violence by civilians and officers, independent investigatory bodies for police brutality cases, and abolishing revenue-generating police policies that negatively impact black citizens disproportionately are all changes that I support, regardless of who's helping to drive them.
I think that the many millions of dollars a year that PDs and city/state governments fork out to settle wrongful death and police brutality suits would be much better spent funding some of those systemic improvements.
RE: Do all black lives matter, or only those killed by cops? - Midwest Spy - 07-12-2016
When BLM came together, after the Michael Brown incident, I asked this very question.
While I still feel that Phil Castile was unjustly shot, the outrage over his death at the hands of a cop is 1000 times greater than the outrage over the 2 year old black kid who was killed a day later in Minneapolis in the crossfire of gang warfare.
Zero outrage from anyone in the black community.
As the black cop said in his piece: "the only black lives that matter are those killed by cops & whites."
RE: Do all black lives matter, or only those killed by cops? - HairOfTheDog - 07-12-2016
I also agree with Dallas PD Chief Brown. Many in society are asking too much of good police officers. They work within the system and do their best to serve and protect within their communities. When the system in which they work is broken, it's not the fault of the officers.
I still believe most cops are good guys. However, just like there are teachers attracted to the profession because they're sexually attracted to teens and there are priests who use their positions of trust to molest children, there are power-hungry control freaks who are attracted to policing. Corrupt teachers, priests, and police officers don't get a pass from me just because I respect the professions and the good majority of professionals.
Not all cops that kill people are bad or brutal; sometime it's justified, sometimes it's lack of training/competence, sometimes it's a perfect storm of factors that couldn't have been prevented. Painting all police officers with a negative broad brush is wrong, in my opinion.
Likewise, while some people who get brutalized or killed by police brought it on themselves, not all of them did. People who make up their own facts in order to paint every police shooting victim as a "thug" or a "piece of shit" who deserved it are just as wrong as those who insist that all police officers are bad ones, in my view.
RE: Do all black lives matter, or only those killed by cops? - Duchess - 07-12-2016
(07-12-2016, 01:24 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: I also agree with Dallas PD Chief Brown. Many in society are asking too much of good police officers.
After I heard him say that I gave it some thought. I had never considered that aspect of it before. I agree with him. They have a job to do and so do parents. I think many parents are lax in their parenting. It's up to them to instill a healthy respect for others. I think some do try but their kids fail them and I think there are other parents who don't try at all. Most of us learn at a very young age that bad behavior has consequences, others don't learn that at all.
RE: Do all black lives matter, or only those killed by cops? - HairOfTheDog - 07-12-2016
(07-12-2016, 01:06 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: Zero outrage from anyone in the black community.
Yes there is outrage and tremendous grief by many people in the black community.
But, people don't expect gang members to fairly serve and protect the community. And, people have good reason to believe that if those gang members are caught, they'll be held accountable by the criminal justice system.
Some of those same outraged community members have no reason to believe that a police officer who kills a person unjustifiably will be held accountable in any way. So, they protest to demand justice and change the system which enables that lack of accountability.
The vast majority of blacks are killed by other blacks. The vast majority of whites are killed by other whites. Violent criminals typically kill those by whom they live. In my experience, most people are flawed but decent. No decent people of any color want to see children and non-threatening adults killed, though most people aren't terribly surprised when violent criminals kill people. When there is suspicion that a person killed someone unjustifiably, a person who is sanctioned by a badge and enabled by a system to do so with impunity, it's more likely to result in protests (by people of all colors).
RE: Do all black lives matter, or only those killed by cops? - cannongal - 07-12-2016
(07-12-2016, 01:47 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: But, people don't expect gang members to fairly serve and protect the community. And, people have good reason to believe that if those gang members are caught, they'll be held accountable by the criminal justice system.
Some of those same outraged community members have no reason to believe that a police officer who kills a person unjustifiably will be held accountable in any way. So, they protest to demand justice and change the system which enables that lack of accountability.
I new you'd have a logical reason. It makes sense.
It still frustrates me that thousands of people are willing to walk onto a major highway, during rush hour and stop traffic, but those same people won't stand up in their own neighborhoods and say "enough is enough" to the gangs.
RE: Do all black lives matter, or only those killed by cops? - OnBendedKnee - 07-12-2016
Excellent points all around within this thread.
RE: Do all black lives matter, or only those killed by cops? - sally - 07-12-2016
(07-12-2016, 02:28 PM)cannongal Wrote: It still frustrates me that thousands of people are willing to walk onto a major highway, during rush hour and stop traffic, but those same people won't stand up in their own neighborhoods and say "enough is enough" to the gangs.
What are you possibly going to say to them to make a change though? You can't protest gang members and expect any change. One thing I see often, however, is that cops are out fucking with people over petty things, like hiding behind trees to catch them going over 25 mph, meanwhile you call them up to report people slinging crack in front of your house and they tell you they have bigger fish to fry. I have a friend that has some rental houses in the ghetto and the cops are nowhere to be found out there. Perhaps the black community should be protesting that.
RE: Do all black lives matter, or only those killed by cops? - Donovan - 07-12-2016
It would be a mistake to assume all black people are murderous thugs simply because that is what sells ads on tv. Are all white people serial killers just because the overwhelming majority of serial killers are white males?
The logical fallacy of "if all A are B then all B must be A" is the very definition of prejudice.
Gangs become prevalent in areas where there are no jobs, no money, no opportunity, and the police are seen as a dangerous enemy. White, black, latino, asian, whoever is unlucky enough to live there. Poverty and hopelessness are the commonalities, not race. Ghettos don't have suburban tax dollars to fund their schools. They don't have any of the perks or advantages of a middle class, two parent household. They don't have civic groups preventing the proliferation of pawn shops, liquor stores and strip clubs on every corner. And when a person has nothing but the ground he walks on, that's what he defends. Many urban poor are born, grow up, live and die without ever leaving their own neighborhood. We see this pattern in the US, overseas, in Europe, in the middle east, and South America.
I'm not saying I condone black on black crime, any more than I condone white on white crime. I'm saying I understand it.
RE: Do all black lives matter, or only those killed by cops? - cannongal - 07-12-2016
(07-12-2016, 05:04 PM)sally Wrote: What are you possibly going to say to them to make a change though?
Good question-
(07-12-2016, 05:04 PM)sally Wrote: One thing I see often, however, is that cops are out fucking with people over petty things, like hiding behind trees to catch them going over 25 mph,
You're pretty lucky, I'd love to see them doing that more often on my streets. I mean, no- let's let people fly through residential zones. God knows, nobody would be out walking or trying to ride bikes.
(07-12-2016, 05:04 PM)sally Wrote: meanwhile you call them up to report people slinging crack in front of your house and they tell you they have bigger fish to fry.
This I can relate to- Heroin is a huge issue in this state If you find a needle or other paraphernalia in a state park, you get to stand there and stare at it for 3 hours while waiting for the cops to get there. All they do is pick it up and put it in one of those needle thingies. Now, I just pack an old pair of tongs and an empty coffee can. If I see anything on the trail, I put it in the can & toss the can at the end of the hike.
(07-12-2016, 05:04 PM)sally Wrote: I have a friend that has some rental houses in the ghetto and the cops are nowhere to be found out there. Perhaps the black community should be protesting that.
I spent part of my childhood in a gheto-ish area in Massachusetts. The area started out as Italian and the Hispanics started moving in. I can remember sitting on the third floor porch of my grandparents home, watching groups of young Hispanic Men & groups of Italian men meet in the middle of the street and beat the shit out of each other. Tires would get slashed, houses burgled and vandalized, the area turned into a real pit. Lots of houses went up for sale. My Parents got the hell out in the late 80's.
Somewhere in the late 90's, the city started offering a free abandoned house to any cop that was willing to move into that area. They had 3 takers. I was down that way last year or the year before, visiting family that still lives there. The area looks really nice now. The houses are kept up, and there wasn't much trash on the street. They had torn down some houses and built a community center and expanded the play ground, with real swings and play equipment. I was quite impressed.
I wonder if that type of thing (offering a cop a free house in a bad area) would work in other cities.
RE: Do all black lives matter, or only those killed by cops? - Maggot - 07-12-2016
Cops should want body cams at least it would cover their ass. It only takes a perp a split second to shot a cop, both sides are on edge and I can see some not taking calls in some places. Laws can be written but enforcement is a different matter. If your just a Joe Smoe.
RE: Do all black lives matter, or only those killed by cops? - OnBendedKnee - 07-12-2016
(07-12-2016, 08:29 PM)Maggot Wrote: Cops should want body cams at least it would cover their ass. It only takes a perp a split second to shot a cop, both sides are on edge and I can see some not taking calls in some places. Laws can be written but enforcement is a different matter. If your just a Joe Smoe.
Excellent.
For the sake of argument, allow me to present another side to this debate.
BodyCams, as good as they are do take away Law Enforcement's discretion. For example, you are pulled over for DUI. You're not raging drunk- yet sure, you're over the legal limit.
Gone are the days you could be given a courtesy ride home (especially if you're cooperative and close to where you live).
DUI's are a misdemeanour and an arrest is at the discretion of the cop. Well, used to be.
Now if a cop takes it upon himself to do you a solid ("just this once") he is open to having the BodyCam tape subpoena enforced by an up and coming defence attorney who's client WAS arrested for the same crime (who knows what the total circumstances were though).
Can you imagine the hassle of explaining how you arrest some yet not others for the "same" crime?
BodyCams would just about require all laws be equally enforced- DUI; possession of marijuana; bar fights, and on and on.
I am still a firm believer the overall 'good' of BodyCams well outweigh any perceived 'bad'- yet did want to demonstrate there are some negatives to the debate.
RE: Do all black lives matter, or only those killed by cops? - Maggot - 07-12-2016
It would fit within the narrative and would satisfy the populous until 10 yrs go by and the public eye is on to bigger and better things. Being "right" or "wrong" changes according to the general observations and time frame of the general public. An influence that can be subverted with care. Or just discarded as another fad. The good videos could be weighed with anything bad.
RE: Do all black lives matter, or only those killed by cops? - Love Child - 07-13-2016
I get tired of watching videos that begin in the middle of conversations or events. I get tired of trying to interpret a violent action or innocence from a video. People have been convicted on less, videos are supposed to help us, sometimes they bring more questions, or is it that people, myself included do not want to face the truth?
I also appreciate the conversation happening in this thread. I was thinking about BLM movement this week while reflecting on the shooting that happened in Orlando.
It is my observation, I could be wrong, but it is my observation that people are ready to support LGBTQ that were targeted by changing their profile pictures, by talking about it, by showing support in other ways, but I do not see the same people showing support for BLM.
But also I understand that-because I believe people can only support so many causes-but people were really loud after Orlando, and now that has quieted down.
How many non-blacks are killed by cops in the US?
RE: Do all black lives matter, or only those killed by cops? - Maggot - 07-13-2016
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RE: Do all black lives matter, or only those killed by cops? - HairOfTheDog - 07-14-2016
The BLM proposed changes to policing and the criminal justice system would not only benefit black people, but would also benefit community members of all colors and good police officers of all colors, in my opinion.