+- Mock (https://mockforums.net)
+-- Forum: Serious Shit? (https://mockforums.net/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: Discussions, Opinions & Debate (https://mockforums.net/forum-11.html)
+--- Thread: What would happen if... (/thread-4473.html)
What would happen if... - Cracker - 11-26-2010
Maybe Duchess or a financier can answer this question for me.
What would happen if the mortgage companies refinanced all of us, within the next year, for the amount our houses are actually worth currently? Would it destroy anything?
Some areas are worse than others as far as property values declining, but most people have taken a huge hit. People are not able to move to new jobs because they are upside-down in their mortgages. Some people are just walking away from the financial obligation and taking the hit to their credit because they believe they have no other choice but to move on. Many are losing their homes and have no prospect of employment and nowhere to go but to live with family.
What would happen if we freed up the debt on money that really doesn't exist? The huge disparity between existing mortgages and property values is holding our economy back. If we changed just that, would everything else take care of itself? Could people stay in their homes? Would I be spending more money because I would feel safer and less screwed over? Would people start buying again and banks be able to hit a better median value for foreclosed homes currently on the market?
Obama only made refinancing of this sort available to people stupid enough to buy homes over 31% of their gross income or people who meet this standard because they have lost most of their income. What about us working stiffs who still have to pay pretend money because we kept our jobs and bought homes with conventional loans? Seems we have been forgotten.
Would it kill the financial industry to do this or would they save in the long run by keeping the money flowing? Anybody know?
RE: What would happen if... - IMaDick - 11-26-2010
It would collapse the economy even worse than it is, keep in mind that all of the money that exists is priciple when a loan is taken out, the interest does not exist.
in other words profit is all imaginary, it is nothing more than a transfer of the original money to the lender from the borrower.
If you want to do something fun with finacials, see if you can find out how much money is in circulation and then how much is owed , I think it will blow your mind, there is no way that any debt can be paid off without the money being borrowed somewhere else.
it's all based on the interest"profit" does not exist in tangible money.none of it.
RE: What would happen if... - Cracker - 11-26-2010
I know somebody got the proceeds when a house was purchased, but chances are they purchased something, too, that is also financed. What if we settled somewhere in the middle? Sellers would price homes more moderately because banks would stop lending like there is no reasonable limit to credit.
RE: What would happen if... - Cracker - 11-26-2010
(11-26-2010, 09:00 PM)IMaDick Wrote: It would collapse the economy even worse than it is, keep in mind that all of the money that exists is priciple when a loan is taken out, the interest does not exist.
in other words profit is all imaginary, it is nothing more than a transfer of the original money to the lender from the borrower.
If you want to do something fun with finacials, see if you can find out how much money is in circulation and then how much is owed , I think it will blow your mind, there is no way that any debt can be paid off without the money being borrowed somewhere else.
it's all based on the interest"profit" does not exist in tangible money.none of it.
I was going to look up how much of America is: a.) owned outright/financed, b.) owned by American interests. I probably don't want to know either.
RE: What would happen if... - Cracker - 11-26-2010
This always angers me when I check it: http://www.poodwaddle.com/worldclock.swf
Click <more> and it tells you how much the average American owes compared to how much debt the average American taxpayer owes.
RE: What would happen if... - IMaDick - 11-26-2010
Cracker, the funds transferred when a home is sold"principle" is borrowed or saved in a lump for a down payment ,and the profit to the lender"interest" does not exist in money, it's all just a paper transfer, when that money is paid the money to pay the interest comes from other real money not from the paper transfer, interest does not exist in tangible money, ever.
the interest which is being added to what we as a nation owe china does not exist, if the fed prints enough money to cover the interest the dollar will be worth zero.
if the lenders give up money on the loans which they hold on the houses in todays market, they are not only forfeiting profit"interest" they are also forfeiting principle "real tangible money" when that happens the dollar also devalues "inflation" if the dollar devalues enough the interest owed to foreign nations and domestic accounts doubles ,keep in mind interest "profit" does not exist in real tangible money" anything paid must come from real circulating money, which can only come from one source and not force higher interest rates"which money does not exist" and that's from the pockets of working americans which has an impact all it's own.
RE: What would happen if... - Cracker - 11-26-2010
"One in 389 U.S. households received a foreclosure notice in October." Source: CNBC
This will get worse.
Yeah, compounded interest is the Devil's henchman. I would settle for the original amount of the loan (I'm the asshole who bought it, I'll pay for it), but how about simple interest? I love simple interest. I actually have a great rate right now that will last a few more years, but I don't trust the market now. I am disenfranchised.
Added: "Nevada again had the highest foreclosure rate in the country with one in every 79 properties in the state getting a foreclosure notice." Jesus.
RE: What would happen if... - pyropappy - 11-26-2010
This is just the beginning; wait untill all the government (union) employees start taking pay cuts and reductions in benefits because the local governments can not afford them any more. Look to Europe for what is comming; prepare now.
RE: What would happen if... - username - 11-26-2010
My husband is the economics major. I might ask him when I'm willing to listen to a two hour lecture. I would think though that what Dick is saying is correct. While it might not be actual profit, the lenders assume a certain amount of interest income. If they didn't get that, they'd tighten credit further (which was the whole point of the bank bailout...to keep credit floating) so it would squeeze the banks, who would then tighten credit and the whole economy would suffer.
Like I said, my husband would have a very, very long opinion about the topic. I'm just not sure I want to hear it right now.
RE: What would happen if... - sally - 11-26-2010
Who gives a shit, if you were smart or in any way lucky then your house should be paid for.
RE: What would happen if... - sally - 11-26-2010
(11-26-2010, 10:38 PM)pyropappy Wrote: This is just the beginning; wait untill all the government (union) employees start taking pay cuts and reductions in benefits because the local governments can not afford them any more. Look to Europe for what is comming; prepare now.I just don't understand this type of talk. Nothing is going to happen except that we will go on the way we always have. If you haven't accomplished shit for yourself in this amount of time (I'm assuming you are at least 30 years old from other posts) then you are probally not going to accomplish much more, don't blame it on the goverment.
RE: What would happen if... - Cracker - 11-26-2010
(11-26-2010, 10:38 PM)pyropappy Wrote: This is just the beginning; wait untill all the government (union) employees start taking pay cuts and reductions in benefits because the local governments can not afford them any more. Look to Europe for what is comming; prepare now.
Umm, have you heard of furloughs? State employees have already had pay and benefits cut (some states around 20%). Many state and local governments have had major layoffs. Only federal employees are exempt right now.
RE: What would happen if... - Cracker - 11-26-2010
(11-26-2010, 10:54 PM)sally Wrote: Who gives a shit, if you were smart or in any way lucky then your house should be paid for.
The mortgage industry would hate you.
RE: What would happen if... - IMaDick - 11-27-2010
(11-26-2010, 10:54 PM)sally Wrote: Who gives a shit, if you were smart or in any way lucky then your house should be paid for.
Go Ahead try and own your home, it's impossible to truely own property.
you get the use of it as long as you pay uncle sam, city and county governments to live there.
your payments never end.
fucking sheeple are the worst kind of morons, they live a fools life.
RE: What would happen if... - Cracker - 11-27-2010
(11-27-2010, 12:02 AM)IMaDick Wrote:(11-26-2010, 10:54 PM)sally Wrote: Who gives a shit, if you were smart or in any way lucky then your house should be paid for.
Go Ahead try and own your home, it's impossible to truely own property.
you get the use of it as long as you pay uncle sam, city and county governments to live there.
your payments never end.
fucking sheeple are the worst kind of morons, they live a fools life.
We can't all live in the woods, Dick.
That is actually a very Native American philosphy. You can't own land, you can just live there as long as the land allows you.
I grew up in the second largest county in California. The pioneers sold the water rights and some of the mineral rights to their homesteads to the City of Los Angeles. Most people never think about how far down they "own" their land, or if somebody else does.
RE: What would happen if... - username - 11-27-2010
(11-27-2010, 12:19 AM)Cracker Wrote: I grew up in the second largest county in California. The pioneers sold the water rights and some of the mineral rights to their homesteads to the City of Los Angeles. Most people never think about how far down they "own" their land, or if somebody else does.
You either lease or own your land, right?
RE: What would happen if... - Cracker - 11-27-2010
(11-27-2010, 12:47 AM)username Wrote:(11-27-2010, 12:19 AM)Cracker Wrote: I grew up in the second largest county in California. The pioneers sold the water rights and some of the mineral rights to their homesteads to the City of Los Angeles. Most people never think about how far down they "own" their land, or if somebody else does.
You either lease or own your land, right?
Special use lands are usually leased (ranch lands come to mind), or people lease timber rights, mine claims, etc. When people buy land, they should always have a title check done to make sure nobody else owns the riparian rights, mineral rights, oil rights, etc. Some deeds specifically state they don't include these rights.
RE: What would happen if... - Maggot - 11-27-2010
When so many people file foreclosure in any area and everyone moves away do your property taxes go up or down? How IS Detroit doing nowadays anyway.
RE: What would happen if... - Cracker - 11-27-2010
Our property taxes will be going up a little this year, but Georgia has a special way to fuck us. It's called a LOST. Local Option Sales Tax. That means we pay an extra 1% sales tax. My fucking county has three concurrent running right now, so we pay an extra 3% on all goods and services. Can you fucking believe the stupid ass voters here did that? That is in addition to property tax. You can't write off sales tax, so we are totally fucked. I am spending my year becoming less of a consumer. They can fuck off, backwards ass votes who don't understand tax liability. Fuckers get back more than they pay in so what the fuck do they need to understand. Pisses me TF off when I think about it. I swear my blood pressure just went up thinking about it.
RE: What would happen if... - Cracker - 11-27-2010
Holy shit! Thirty-four states have LOST taxes. Jesus we are stupid as a nation. Why the hell do people vote in more taxes? It is beyond me. The Buddhist in me is saddened we can't learn to live off what we take from property taxes. Where has my America gone? The America where people say, "No, fuck you, take it if you can. I won't just give it to you."