Johnny S. Clarke & Lisa Straub- young Ohio couple murdered

[trixie]

I had a dream last night that they arrested someone finally. Let's hope that comes true! Although, I did fall asleep listening to my police scanner...

We're all going crazy in here, we need something! We're either going over the exact same things or making up the craziest scenarios.

I have had several dreams about this case! I also am finding myself a little scared to be home alone at night! We've always locked our doors, but anytime I heard a sound or thought I saw a shadow out a window last night I couldn't help but think of this case! Just another reason LE needs to give us some info!

But, last night I heard on the police scanner that some woman's husband was out of town and she heard something on her roof and wanted someone to check it out. Made me laugh cause I could picture myself doing the same thing... I'm a chicken, especially right now, even though I don't think is random in the slightest.

[trixie]

So, these Interband pants got me thinking....this is Ohio...who calls them Interband? Why not Yoga pants? I never even heard the two toned colors being called Interband before and I'm quite the clothes whore. So, I did a little more research because I thought that word "Interband" was too complicated for just two different color yoga pants.

There is a store called "Interband" out of Largo, Florida. It is a leather apparel store. Could it be that they are Interband pants because the tag on them says "Interband" and she ordered/bought them from an Interband store?? AND, didn't somone say that those vacation pictures were from Florida?

Just throwing that out there.

this certainly could be... BUT i think we may be worrying too much about the pants and what they are and what they should be called etc. while i could be very wrong, i'm don't think it's relevant. my guess is that they are pants such as the yoga pants someone posted a picture of and someone just threw some random made up term for the name of pants.
this sweater is described as:
"korean style interband high collar sweater"
(i believe because of the varied bands of color... hope this picture works)

I can't see the pic...

[HeartBreaker]

So, these Interband pants got me thinking....this is Ohio...who calls them Interband? Why not Yoga pants? I never even heard the two toned colors being called Interband before and I'm quite the clothes whore. So, I did a little more research because I thought that word "Interband" was too complicated for just two different color yoga pants.

There is a store called "Interband" out of Largo, Florida. It is a leather apparel store. Could it be that they are Interband pants because the tag on them says "Interband" and she ordered/bought them from an Interband store?? AND, didn't somone say that those vacation pictures were from Florida?

Just throwing that out there.

this certainly could be... BUT i think we may be worrying too much about the pants and what they are and what they should be called etc. while i could be very wrong, i'm don't think it's relevant. my guess is that they are pants such as the yoga pants someone posted a picture of and someone just threw some random made up term for the name of pants.
this sweater is described as:
"korean style interband high collar sweater"
(i believe because of the varied bands of color... hope this picture works)

crap... it didn't work!

here's a link to the page with picture... at least i know that will work!

http://www1.wholesale-dress.net/korean-s...15759.html

[RaisingAPrince]

I had a dream last night that they arrested someone finally. Let's hope that comes true! Although, I did fall asleep listening to my police scanner...

We're all going crazy in here, we need something! We're either going over the exact same things or making up the craziest scenarios.

I have had several dreams about this case! I also am finding myself a little scared to be home alone at night! We've always locked our doors, but anytime I heard a sound or thought I saw a shadow out a window last night I couldn't help but think of this case! Just another reason LE needs to give us some info!

But, last night I heard on the police scanner that some woman's husband was out of town and she heard something on her roof and wanted someone to check it out. Made me laugh cause I could picture myself doing the same thing... I'm a chicken, especially right now, even though I don't think is random in the slightest.

It wasn't me I swear! My husband was gone and I was alone with our 2 year old son. I kept hearing sounds but kept blaming it on the ice! As long as I blame it on something I feel better!

I agree that it's not random. A lot of people here have good ideas on what went down or who did it, and even though I'm not fully convinced on any one, I do believe they knew the killers and this was planned. BUT I do often wonder "well if the people that did this aren't getting caught, maybe they think they can get away with it again and start doing random robberies/murders". You just never know!

[trixie]

Mock needs an app so I can keep up with this while I'm out.

[Wish.I.was.a.P.I]

So, these Interband pants got me thinking....this is Ohio...who calls them Interband? Why not Yoga pants? I never even heard the two toned colors being called Interband before and I'm quite the clothes whore. So, I did a little more research because I thought that word "Interband" was too complicated for just two different color yoga pants.

There is a store called "Interband" out of Largo, Florida. It is a leather apparel store. Could it be that they are Interband pants because the tag on them says "Interband" and she ordered/bought them from an Interband store?? AND, didn't somone say that those vacation pictures were from Florida?

Just throwing that out there.

this certainly could be... BUT i think we may be worrying too much about the pants and what they are and what they should be called etc. while i could be very wrong, i'm don't think it's relevant. my guess is that they are pants such as the yoga pants someone posted a picture of and someone just threw some random made up term for the name of pants.
this sweater is described as:
"korean style interband high collar sweater"
(i believe because of the varied bands of color... hope this picture works)

I completely agree that it's neither here nor there what the pants look like etc however, the way they describe the pants being underneath her head opposed to around her neck or just simply next to her, makes me wonder if somehow someone placing the pants under her head was a sign of compassion in some way..or to make a statement. I know it sounds stupid that somone would show compassion if they had tortured her but the wording of how the pants were placed is just weird to me... under her head...

[grey sweat pants]

What if in one of the scenarios posted Lisa was subdued first? Then she could be used as leverage against Johnny???

[TotallyCurious]

If you have not watched the interview with Maytee gesturing how the
bodies were wrapped, please do not!

I had never thought of it like that and now I can not get it out of my
mind. I did not sleep a wink last night just being upset by watching
the video.

Equally upsetting is her having seen the body and being so cold about it.
I can come to tears now simply remembering one of my children breaking
their kneecap. And the venom she spewed. I also thought she said
on one occasion that she stayed in the car.

She knows much more than she is saying and she has been
prepared for a dastardly death on more than one occasion is my sad belief.

[EastCoastKat]

Well I had written up my theory but I lost it somehow! my luck, of course! lol Anyway, I think the post by "Grieving Friend" held A LOT of information and the two common denominators in all of this - Mr. Z and Ms T. According to GF (Grieving Friend), earlier that very night, Mr. Z was calling around trying to illicit money from GF's mom. Now let's go back a little bit to what Tiff said here.

She had been to LS house twice before - with Mr. Z. She seemed to be hanging out A LOT with Mr. Z lately, so much that Mr. Z's mom thought the two were dating. Also, according to Mr. Z's mom, he was in very bad shape, in withdrawal from percocets. This is something I have been thinking:

Tiffany was at Mr. Z's house on this night. According to Tiff (she said this here at Mock), hanging out with JC/LS was not planned in advance, it was a spontaneous invite from JC/LS that night while they were talking on the phone. My question is, why was Tiff talking to LS on the phone in the first place (my opinion: the drugs/percs)? During the conversation is when JC/LS supposedly invited Tiff over. However, what about Mr. Z, who invited him? By Tiff's own words she was going to go with Mr.Z, but this was a spontaneous invite, so when did she have a chance to talk to Mr. Z about going over to LS house? And what was his mode of transportation to get there? - this leads me to believe Tiff and Mr. Z were together - at his house. At the time of this call.

The mom, who is mentioned in Grieving Friend's post, is the very mom that Tiff talked about here, her words she "woke my friend's (Z's) mom up, and used her car" to get to the residence.I believe they weren't waiting for a ride, they just went ahead and took Z's mom's car and went to the house.

Tiffany and Z go over to the house, however, the police state there were NO footprints. that's because, they did go through the garage, since they know very well how to get into the house through the garage. Could Mr.Z have gone in through the garage at that point, and THIS is when everything went down. REMEMBER, Tiff's cell phone records will STILL SHOW that she talked to JC/LS earlier that night, and I believe she made the "who are you, what are you doing here" story to cover herself, however, that conversation never took place. It was just the regular convo about drugs, and being invited to the house, and possibly told by JC that he had drugs at the house to do/sell. At this point, Z is broke and needs money, wants money and/or drugs, and knows just where to get it (JC/LS house - he knows how nice the house is, that the parents are out, and that JC has drugs/money). Remember, he ~allegedly~ tried to illicit money from someone else earlier that night, and also supposedly stole a cell phone and laptop afterward - this kid was desperate.

SOMETHING went down at the house between Z and JC. that's what I believe. I'm not entirely sure Tiff was involved physically. She might have been present, she might not have even entered the home. Perhaps it all started friendly, with them all hanging out, but at this point it sounds like Z was a little out of control (coming off withdrawal). He had no money to buy the percs. JC had the percs, but he was not willing to share without getting payment. This is when I think a confrontation/fight/struggle broke out. Because Z wanted the percs, but had no money, he went after JC for it. I don't believe Lisa was present at the time, but was probably upstairs about to change, when she hears the struggle and comes down. At this time, Z has already overpowered JC. Yes, you may be thinking JC is a big guy and how can Z overpower him? I'm certain JC had NO idea his friend would attack him, and I believe it was a suprise attack. By then he has already subdued JC when Lisa enters. She freaks, so Z immediately hits LS with an object (causing the bleeding to her head) so that she doesn't get away so quickly. She's next to get tied up, and get the bag.

NONE of this was planned! Things escalated, a fight broke out for one reason or another, things just got out of control (i blame The First 48 for me thinking this too lol! many murders involving drugs are unexpected/escalated/unplanned!). The reason it took soo long for them to contact someone, anyone, else.. was because they were THERE and the struggle took quiet a while. So you might ask, why didn't they just take off and act like nothing ever happened instead of calling attention to themselves? Because the PHONE records would SHOW that a) Tiff talked to JC/LS and b) the pings would put them at the house. They had to explain that, right? The story of Tiff calling and hearing the struggle is FALSE! This was, as LC said, a red herring, to both cover the phone call as well as point LE into thinking the assailants were UNKNOWN to the victims.

They called Sharita FROM LS house, as all reports show. Because again, they had BEEN there all along. Tiff's story about how she got worried after an hour of not hearing back from JC is FALSE! she had to explain that time (the time of the struggle) away, and that's the story she is using. If her story was true about her going to the house to check up on them after not hearing from them, where were her footprints? She went up to the front door, according to her, not the garage, so wouldn't she have left footprints?

I believe when they originally went to the house, the garage door was open, they parked inside and closed the garage door. They also exited the garage and closed it, Which explains when the cops go there they saw nothing (no footprints because T/Z went in thru the garage).

From then on, I believe the stories in the news are true. Tiff goes and picks up the dad and we all know the rest. I want to know though, was Mr.Z also there when she went to pick up the father? That would say A LOT. If he was there too, that would back up my theory that they both went to the home originally and never left.

If anyone can find any holes in my scenario above PLEASE let me know! This all came to me in one night, after reading 300+ pages here on this case. What really set my flag off was, what was the COMMON denominator throughout this whole things? That is Mr. Z (who hasn't been talked about as much) and Ms. T. I could be TOTALLY wrong and OFF BASE and I have not thought of any loopholes that there can be yet.

The only thing I can think of us Tiff's claims that she called JC back right away and texted LS a few times right after she supposedly heard the struggle. That would be hard for me to explain away as to why she would be sending concerned texts to Lisa. I would really want to see if there is proof of these calls/texts from Tiff right after the inital phone call.

Again just wanted to reiterate that this was a totally unexpected event, and because Tiff is a DOWN ASS BITCH, she is not going to snitch on Mr. Z, regardless of if it was intentional or not. Plus of course the fact that she was involved (again, I honestly don't think she expect what happened, to happen)

I think you are almost right on...and as far as Mr.Z being able to overwhelm JC, I believe it's possible. In these last pictures of JC the famous one with LS, where JC is in the green shirt, if you look at the whole picture JC didn't look as pumped up and the only picture I have seen of Mr.Z he had a sweatshirt hoodie on...so I am not exactly sure what Mr. Z has muscle wise...

When you use the element of surprise you most certainly have an upper hand!! JC may have have been hit in the head just hard enough to stun or knock him out, but not break any skin (yeah, the coroner's report didn't mention it but they didn't mention where the blood was coming from on LS either, just the manner of death really) so this is plausible. And if TW's phone call is all BS, well yeah, Mr.Z could have surprised JC in the kitchen, while somebody, gee who could that be??, kept LS busy upstairs in the bedroom with "girl talk" until LS heard something was happening, and they both started to run to the kitchen and LS was then hit in the head too. I wish LE would confirm if LS was raped or not, or at least something!! But I think it was more TW was a look out, but Mr. Z could have definitely been one of them who was hands on, and the other one, well JC expecting only TW and Mr.Z would have let Mr.Z in but would been surprised to see someone he didn't invite over that night right behind Mr. Z....and they jumped JC from the get go...

And it is kind of creepy to see TW, VD one of JC's best buddies and his girl (who was with JC just a few hours before watching probowl), and Mr. Z in the same picture! Looks like Mr.Z and VD's girlfriend go to the same high school too. Unless I have the wrong Mr.Z, lol!

I definitely think your theory is plausible...

[Duchess]

The quickest way to get me to do something is to tell me not to...now I've got to watch that video.

[EastCoastKat]

Mock needs an app so I can keep up with this while I'm out.

I thought the same thing, lol...can't get MOCK on my droid!

[LoserCity]

I had a dream last night that they arrested someone finally. Let's hope that comes true! Although, I did fall asleep listening to my police scanner...

We're all going crazy in here, we need something! We're either going over the exact same things or making up the craziest scenarios.

I have had several dreams about this case! I also am finding myself a little scared to be home alone at night! We've always locked our doors, but anytime I heard a sound or thought I saw a shadow out a window last night I couldn't help but think of this case! Just another reason LE needs to give us some info!

But, last night I heard on the police scanner that some woman's husband was out of town and she heard something on her roof and wanted someone to check it out. Made me laugh cause I could picture myself doing the same thing... I'm a chicken, especially right now, even though I don't think is random in the slightest.

Funny - I have called 911 twice i the middle of the night when my husband was out of town because of things I heard outside. LE didn't see anything unusual, but the next day a lady from the neighborhood had her car stolen right out of the driveway.

[lou1975]

The quickest way to get me to do something is to tell me not to...now I've got to watch that video.

same as above

[EastCoastKat]

What if in one of the scenarios posted Lisa was subdued first? Then she could be used as leverage against Johnny???

That too is a real possibility, it would make me stop in my tracks if someone had someone I loved, look at the lady that went to bank to withdraw that money with one of the perps, while the other one kept control of the daughters, the Petit family, that was horrible, all that destruction and there were only 2 of them, took out the father first.

[Wish.I.was.a.P.I]

Well I had written up my theory but I lost it somehow! my luck, of course! lol Anyway, I think the post by "Grieving Friend" held A LOT of information and the two common denominators in all of this - Mr. Z and Ms T. According to GF (Grieving Friend), earlier that very night, Mr. Z was calling around trying to illicit money from GF's mom. Now let's go back a little bit to what Tiff said here.

She had been to LS house twice before - with Mr. Z. She seemed to be hanging out A LOT with Mr. Z lately, so much that Mr. Z's mom thought the two were dating. Also, according to Mr. Z's mom, he was in very bad shape, in withdrawal from percocets. This is something I have been thinking:

Tiffany was at Mr. Z's house on this night. According to Tiff (she said this here at Mock), hanging out with JC/LS was not planned in advance, it was a spontaneous invite from JC/LS that night while they were talking on the phone. My question is, why was Tiff talking to LS on the phone in the first place (my opinion: the drugs/percs)? During the conversation is when JC/LS supposedly invited Tiff over. However, what about Mr. Z, who invited him? By Tiff's own words she was going to go with Mr.Z, but this was a spontaneous invite, so when did she have a chance to talk to Mr. Z about going over to LS house? And what was his mode of transportation to get there? - this leads me to believe Tiff and Mr. Z were together - at his house. At the time of this call.

The mom, who is mentioned in Grieving Friend's post, is the very mom that Tiff talked about here, her words she "woke my friend's (Z's) mom up, and used her car" to get to the residence.I believe they weren't waiting for a ride, they just went ahead and took Z's mom's car and went to the house.

Tiffany and Z go over to the house, however, the police state there were NO footprints. that's because, they did go through the garage, since they know very well how to get into the house through the garage. Could Mr.Z have gone in through the garage at that point, and THIS is when everything went down. REMEMBER, Tiff's cell phone records will STILL SHOW that she talked to JC/LS earlier that night, and I believe she made the "who are you, what are you doing here" story to cover herself, however, that conversation never took place. It was just the regular convo about drugs, and being invited to the house, and possibly told by JC that he had drugs at the house to do/sell. At this point, Z is broke and needs money, wants money and/or drugs, and knows just where to get it (JC/LS house - he knows how nice the house is, that the parents are out, and that JC has drugs/money). Remember, he ~allegedly~ tried to illicit money from someone else earlier that night, and also supposedly stole a cell phone and laptop afterward - this kid was desperate.

SOMETHING went down at the house between Z and JC. that's what I believe. I'm not entirely sure Tiff was involved physically. She might have been present, she might not have even entered the home. Perhaps it all started friendly, with them all hanging out, but at this point it sounds like Z was a little out of control (coming off withdrawal). He had no money to buy the percs. JC had the percs, but he was not willing to share without getting payment. This is when I think a confrontation/fight/struggle broke out. Because Z wanted the percs, but had no money, he went after JC for it. I don't believe Lisa was present at the time, but was probably upstairs about to change, when she hears the struggle and comes down. At this time, Z has already overpowered JC. Yes, you may be thinking JC is a big guy and how can Z overpower him? I'm certain JC had NO idea his friend would attack him, and I believe it was a suprise attack. By then he has already subdued JC when Lisa enters. She freaks, so Z immediately hits LS with an object (causing the bleeding to her head) so that she doesn't get away so quickly. She's next to get tied up, and get the bag.

NONE of this was planned! Things escalated, a fight broke out for one reason or another, things just got out of control (i blame The First 48 for me thinking this too lol! many murders involving drugs are unexpected/escalated/unplanned!). The reason it took soo long for them to contact someone, anyone, else.. was because they were THERE and the struggle took quiet a while. So you might ask, why didn't they just take off and act like nothing ever happened instead of calling attention to themselves? Because the PHONE records would SHOW that a) Tiff talked to JC/LS and b) the pings would put them at the house. They had to explain that, right? The story of Tiff calling and hearing the struggle is FALSE! This was, as LC said, a red herring, to both cover the phone call as well as point LE into thinking the assailants were UNKNOWN to the victims.

They called Sharita FROM LS house, as all reports show. Because again, they had BEEN there all along. Tiff's story about how she got worried after an hour of not hearing back from JC is FALSE! she had to explain that time (the time of the struggle) away, and that's the story she is using. If her story was true about her going to the house to check up on them after not hearing from them, where were her footprints? She went up to the front door, according to her, not the garage, so wouldn't she have left footprints?

I believe when they originally went to the house, the garage door was open, they parked inside and closed the garage door. They also exited the garage and closed it, Which explains when the cops go there they saw nothing (no footprints because T/Z went in thru the garage).

From then on, I believe the stories in the news are true. Tiff goes and picks up the dad and we all know the rest. I want to know though, was Mr.Z also there when she went to pick up the father? That would say A LOT. If he was there too, that would back up my theory that they both went to the home originally and never left.

If anyone can find any holes in my scenario above PLEASE let me know! This all came to me in one night, after reading 300+ pages here on this case. What really set my flag off was, what was the COMMON denominator throughout this whole things? That is Mr. Z (who hasn't been talked about as much) and Ms. T. I could be TOTALLY wrong and OFF BASE and I have not thought of any loopholes that there can be yet.

The only thing I can think of us Tiff's claims that she called JC back right away and texted LS a few times right after she supposedly heard the struggle. That would be hard for me to explain away as to why she would be sending concerned texts to Lisa. I would really want to see if there is proof of these calls/texts from Tiff right after the inital phone call.

Again just wanted to reiterate that this was a totally unexpected event, and because Tiff is a DOWN ASS BITCH, she is not going to snitch on Mr. Z, regardless of if it was intentional or not. Plus of course the fact that she was involved (again, I honestly don't think she expect what happened, to happen)

I think you are almost right on...and as far as Mr.Z being able to overwhelm JC, I believe it's possible. In these last pictures of JC the famous one with LS, where JC is in the green shirt, if you look at the whole picture JC didn't look as pumped up and the only picture I have seen of Mr.Z he had a sweatshirt hoodie on...so I am not exactly sure what Mr. Z has muscle wise...

When you use the element of surprise you most certainly have an upper hand!! JC may have have been hit in the head just hard enough to stun or knock him out, but not break any skin (yeah, the coroner's report didn't mention it but they didn't mention where the blood was coming from on LS either, just the manner of death really) so this is plausible. And if TW's phone call is all BS, well yeah, Mr.Z could have surprised JC in the kitchen, while somebody, gee who could that be??, kept LS busy upstairs in the bedroom with "girl talk" until LS heard something was happening, and they both started to run to the kitchen and LS was then hit in the head too. I wish LE would confirm if LS was raped or not, or at least something!! But I think it was more TW was a look out, but Mr. Z could have definitely been one of them who was hands on, and the other one, well JC expecting only TW and Mr.Z would have let Mr.Z in but would been surprised to see someone he didn't invite over that night right behind Mr. Z....and they jumped JC from the get go...

And it is kind of creepy to see TW, VD one of JC's best buddies and his girl (who was with JC just a few hours before watching probowl), and Mr. Z in the same picture! Looks like Mr.Z and VD's girlfriend go to the same high school too. Unless I have the wrong Mr.Z, lol!

I definitely think your theory is plausible...

I would agree except for the fact that 1. There were signs of a struggle and I've mentioned before that I think there would be some type of bruises or marks on Z if he was in that altercation. and 2. If I'm not mistaken, the reports say that there was holes punched in walls from somone looking for the safe...do you know how hard you have to punch the walls to create holes that make it obvious you were looking for a safe??? I haven't seen one pic of any ZB that looks big enough to fight with and subdue Johnny and go around punching holes in the walls.

I just don't believe the two of them did that.

[browntabby1226]

Well I had written up my theory but I lost it somehow! my luck, of course! lol Anyway, I think the post by "Grieving Friend" held A LOT of information and the two common denominators in all of this - Mr. Z and Ms T. According to GF (Grieving Friend), earlier that very night, Mr. Z was calling around trying to illicit money from GF's mom. Now let's go back a little bit to what Tiff said here.

She had been to LS house twice before - with Mr. Z. She seemed to be hanging out A LOT with Mr. Z lately, so much that Mr. Z's mom thought the two were dating. Also, according to Mr. Z's mom, he was in very bad shape, in withdrawal from percocets. This is something I have been thinking:

Tiffany was at Mr. Z's house on this night. According to Tiff (she said this here at Mock), hanging out with JC/LS was not planned in advance, it was a spontaneous invite from JC/LS that night while they were talking on the phone. My question is, why was Tiff talking to LS on the phone in the first place (my opinion: the drugs/percs)? During the conversation is when JC/LS supposedly invited Tiff over. However, what about Mr. Z, who invited him? By Tiff's own words she was going to go with Mr.Z, but this was a spontaneous invite, so when did she have a chance to talk to Mr. Z about going over to LS house? And what was his mode of transportation to get there? - this leads me to believe Tiff and Mr. Z were together - at his house. At the time of this call.

The mom, who is mentioned in Grieving Friend's post, is the very mom that Tiff talked about here, her words she "woke my friend's (Z's) mom up, and used her car" to get to the residence.I believe they weren't waiting for a ride, they just went ahead and took Z's mom's car and went to the house.

Tiffany and Z go over to the house, however, the police state there were NO footprints. that's because, they did go through the garage, since they know very well how to get into the house through the garage. Could Mr.Z have gone in through the garage at that point, and THIS is when everything went down. REMEMBER, Tiff's cell phone records will STILL SHOW that she talked to JC/LS earlier that night, and I believe she made the "who are you, what are you doing here" story to cover herself, however, that conversation never took place. It was just the regular convo about drugs, and being invited to the house, and possibly told by JC that he had drugs at the house to do/sell. At this point, Z is broke and needs money, wants money and/or drugs, and knows just where to get it (JC/LS house - he knows how nice the house is, that the parents are out, and that JC has drugs/money). Remember, he ~allegedly~ tried to illicit money from someone else earlier that night, and also supposedly stole a cell phone and laptop afterward - this kid was desperate.

SOMETHING went down at the house between Z and JC. that's what I believe. I'm not entirely sure Tiff was involved physically. She might have been present, she might not have even entered the home. Perhaps it all started friendly, with them all hanging out, but at this point it sounds like Z was a little out of control (coming off withdrawal). He had no money to buy the percs. JC had the percs, but he was not willing to share without getting payment. This is when I think a confrontation/fight/struggle broke out. Because Z wanted the percs, but had no money, he went after JC for it. I don't believe Lisa was present at the time, but was probably upstairs about to change, when she hears the struggle and comes down. At this time, Z has already overpowered JC. Yes, you may be thinking JC is a big guy and how can Z overpower him? I'm certain JC had NO idea his friend would attack him, and I believe it was a suprise attack. By then he has already subdued JC when Lisa enters. She freaks, so Z immediately hits LS with an object (causing the bleeding to her head) so that she doesn't get away so quickly. She's next to get tied up, and get the bag.

NONE of this was planned! Things escalated, a fight broke out for one reason or another, things just got out of control (i blame The First 48 for me thinking this too lol! many murders involving drugs are unexpected/escalated/unplanned!). The reason it took soo long for them to contact someone, anyone, else.. was because they were THERE and the struggle took quiet a while. So you might ask, why didn't they just take off and act like nothing ever happened instead of calling attention to themselves? Because the PHONE records would SHOW that a) Tiff talked to JC/LS and b) the pings would put them at the house. They had to explain that, right? The story of Tiff calling and hearing the struggle is FALSE! This was, as LC said, a red herring, to both cover the phone call as well as point LE into thinking the assailants were UNKNOWN to the victims.

They called Sharita FROM LS house, as all reports show. Because again, they had BEEN there all along. Tiff's story about how she got worried after an hour of not hearing back from JC is FALSE! she had to explain that time (the time of the struggle) away, and that's the story she is using. If her story was true about her going to the house to check up on them after not hearing from them, where were her footprints? She went up to the front door, according to her, not the garage, so wouldn't she have left footprints?

I believe when they originally went to the house, the garage door was open, they parked inside and closed the garage door. They also exited the garage and closed it, Which explains when the cops go there they saw nothing (no footprints because T/Z went in thru the garage).

From then on, I believe the stories in the news are true. Tiff goes and picks up the dad and we all know the rest. I want to know though, was Mr.Z also there when she went to pick up the father? That would say A LOT. If he was there too, that would back up my theory that they both went to the home originally and never left.

If anyone can find any holes in my scenario above PLEASE let me know! This all came to me in one night, after reading 300+ pages here on this case. What really set my flag off was, what was the COMMON denominator throughout this whole things? That is Mr. Z (who hasn't been talked about as much) and Ms. T. I could be TOTALLY wrong and OFF BASE and I have not thought of any loopholes that there can be yet.

The only thing I can think of us Tiff's claims that she called JC back right away and texted LS a few times right after she supposedly heard the struggle. That would be hard for me to explain away as to why she would be sending concerned texts to Lisa. I would really want to see if there is proof of these calls/texts from Tiff right after the inital phone call.

Again just wanted to reiterate that this was a totally unexpected event, and because Tiff is a DOWN ASS BITCH, she is not going to snitch on Mr. Z, regardless of if it was intentional or not. Plus of course the fact that she was involved (again, I honestly don't think she expect what happened, to happen)

I think you are almost right on...and as far as Mr.Z being able to overwhelm JC, I believe it's possible. In these last pictures of JC the famous one with LS, where JC is in the green shirt, if you look at the whole picture JC didn't look as pumped up and the only picture I have seen of Mr.Z he had a sweatshirt hoodie on...so I am not exactly sure what Mr. Z has muscle wise...

When you use the element of surprise you most certainly have an upper hand!! JC may have have been hit in the head just hard enough to stun or knock him out, but not break any skin (yeah, the coroner's report didn't mention it but they didn't mention where the blood was coming from on LS either, just the manner of death really) so this is plausible. And if TW's phone call is all BS, well yeah, Mr.Z could have surprised JC in the kitchen, while somebody, gee who could that be??, kept LS busy upstairs in the bedroom with "girl talk" until LS heard something was happening, and they both started to run to the kitchen and LS was then hit in the head too. I wish LE would confirm if LS was raped or not, or at least something!! But I think it was more TW was a look out, but Mr. Z could have definitely been one of them who was hands on, and the other one, well JC expecting only TW and Mr.Z would have let Mr.Z in but would been surprised to see someone he didn't invite over that night right behind Mr. Z....and they jumped JC from the get go...

And it is kind of creepy to see TW, VD one of JC's best buddies and his girl (who was with JC just a few hours before watching probowl), and Mr. Z in the same picture! Looks like Mr.Z and VD's girlfriend go to the same high school too. Unless I have the wrong Mr.Z, lol!

I definitely think your theory is plausible...

I would agree except for the fact that 1. There were signs of a struggle and I've mentioned before that I think there would be some type of bruises or marks on Z if he was in that altercation. and 2. If I'm not mistaken, the reports say that there was holes punched in walls from somone looking for the safe...do you know how hard you have to punch the walls to create holes that make it obvious you were looking for a safe??? I haven't seen one pic of any ZB that looks big enough to fight with and subdue Johnny and go around punching holes in the walls.

I just don't believe the two of them did that.

Why do you think they used there fists on the walls maybe they had a bat or hammer.

[toledoarea]

Why does everyone think Mr. Z is some badass? This man, Johnny, he was fighting for his life. As well as his girlfriend Lisa. I'll tell ya what. I'd bet every penny I had that Mr. Z and his pregnant bitch aren't gonna come in MY house, subdue me, duct tape my hands behind my back and my girlfriends hands, and place bags over our heads and kill us. It's not gonna happen. There is NO WAY this 17 yr old strung out on drugs, mal-nutritioned punk is gonna overtake a 21 yr old man who is fighting for his life. And if you do believe that, then obviously you've never been in a fight before.

[browntabby1226]

Why does everyone think Mr. Z is some badass? This man, Johnny, he was fighting for his life. As well as his girlfriend Lisa. I'll tell ya what. I'd bet every penny I had that Mr. Z and his pregnant bitch aren't gonna come in MY house, subdue me, duct tape my hands behind my back and my girlfriends hands, and place bags over our heads and kill us. It's not gonna happen. There is NO WAY this 17 yr old strung out on drugs, mal-nutritioned punk is gonna overtake a 21 yr old man who is fighting for his life. And if you do believe that, then obviously you've never been in a fight before.

I think there was a element of being caught off guard,changes your reaction time.

[toledoarea]

Okay fine. Now that we've come to the conclusion that Mr. Z is a badass, if he's gonna subdue me and take my life, he and I are both gonna be a bloody mess.

[Duchess]

Why does everyone think Mr. Z is some badass? This man, Johnny, he was fighting for his life. As well as his girlfriend Lisa. I'll tell ya what. I'd bet every penny I had that Mr. Z and his pregnant bitch aren't gonna come in MY house, subdue me, duct tape my hands behind my back and my girlfriends hands, and place bags over our heads and kill us. It's not gonna happen. There is NO WAY this 17 yr old strung out on drugs, mal-nutritioned punk is gonna overtake a 21 yr old man who is fighting for his life. And if you do believe that, then obviously you've never been in a fight before.

I agree with that & have thought that all along. When one knows their life is at stake one does not go quietly, I don't care what popular opinion is regarding that. I'm fighting to the death & you're going to know I gave it my best shot.