US soldier murders 16 civilians....

[Midwest Spy]

MS, for just a minute, try to think rationally and don't put words in my mouth. Show me where I said he should get paraded through the streets. If you weren't such a lazy ass, you'd see my other post where I think he should get a trial and if it's determined he needs psych help or whatever, so be it. I want him to face trial and I don't want to go overboard giving sympathy to a guy that killed 16 innocent people. Period. Yes, war is ugly but this goes way beyond pee'ing on the enemy. Asshole.

This post isn't about my outrage at the Taliban. If you want to start a separate post about their horrific crimes, have at it. The evil assholes don't get a "free pass" from me but I'm not going to say "well, there are evil assholes in Afghanistan so this guy was totally justified killing women and children". That's just FUCKED UP.

The fact that you can't separate the two just shows how retarded you really are.

Let me just say you're the type that'll never have yourself/child/family member pick up a weapon and defend the Constitution, but you'll certainly be at the front of the line ready to hurl the first stone at those who do.

So, moron, I'm not defending this guy for killing women and children. All the circumstances in his life led him to make a terrible decision. I believe he'll serve 10-15 years in prison.

These guys aren't robots. Thank God most of them just commit suicide (I'm sure that's what most Libs hope and pray for) when they come home and can't live with what they've seen/done.

Don't just pick and choose the children you cry for. It's unbecoming.

[Maggot]

I do not care if they roast this guys nuts over an open fire. Just do it on American soil. I am afraid Barry will not defend American soldiers good or bad he is still an American. We shall see.............will he stand and commit to the indifference of war or bend to the Islamic revolution? Barry is rather limp wristed in this aspect. Standing as point man he fails. War is hell and Barrys balls are as big as MSN lets them grow.

[HairOfTheDog]

This soldier needs help, clearly, and I believe he likely is suffering from PTSD (it's not a made up excuse).

But, I agree with user on this one. Try him and hand him the correct sentence in the appropriate type of US correctional facility. His mitigating circumstances will be considered in that process. Had this occured during a combat mission or by military order, I would look at who else should be held accountable. But, this was one man's actions alone and he alone is accountable.

Comparing the murder of 16 civilians outside of his military capacity and authority to how many civilians the Taliban killed in that same period is apples to oranges. Are we the Taliban and do we share their agenda? No. Rationalizing that it's somehow not so bad because Afghans "throw their daughters under tanks" is also illogical. What was this man there to do? Did he have the support of his military team when he killed civilians in the middle of the night? Should he be responsible for his own actions? These are the pertinent questions, in my opinion. I can certainly empathise with what likely contributed to him committing such a horrendous crime. The justice system leaves a lot of room for such considerations when determining the sentence for this man's crimes.

[Cracker]

Comparing the murder of 16 civilians outside of his military capacity and authority to how many civilians the Taliban killed in that same period is apples to oranges.

Dead kids are dead kids. Are the ones WE killed any more or less dead? Nope. It is WE, btw. I am willing to accept my part of the blame. Are you?

Who said the soldier gets a pass? He's fucked. Not even because he will pay in a military court of law, but because he killed kids. That is an automatic life-fucker.

Why should his command get a pass? They gave a baby killer a weapon. AND he was drinking on base. That is a huge no-no. You tards act like making the command (however high you have to go) pay for their part gives the soldier a pass.

I like the mommy board faux-concern I'm getting from you and user. Doesn't matter WHY it happened or if we can make it not happen again, just blame the man who transgressed and move on...

This story has more than 16 victims and more than one villian.

[username]

Let me just say you're the type that'll never have yourself/child/family member pick up a weapon and defend the Constitution, but you'll certainly be at the front of the line ready to hurl the first stone at those who do.

So, moron, I'm not defending this guy for killing women and children. All the circumstances in his life led him to make a terrible decision. I believe he'll serve 10-15 years in prison.

These guys aren't robots. Thank God most of them just commit suicide (I'm sure that's what most Libs hope and pray for) when they come home and can't live with what they've seen/done.

Don't just pick and choose the children you cry for. It's unbecoming.

Yeah, right M.S. You're patriotic, I'm not because I won't just excuse a soldier for murdering innocent women and children. You are defending him. "These guys aren't robots". FFS, maybe we should excuse L.E. when they start randomly shooting innocents in Toledo because it's a crime-ridden city and they're traumatized by all that they witness.

Ha...trick question.

I'm pretty sure I don't cry as much as you, ya' teary eyed soup chicken, but yeah, I think it's a sad situation and I expressed some sympathy for him earlier. Still, right is right and wrong is wrong. This guy was wrong.

[username]

Comparing the murder of 16 civilians outside of his military capacity and authority to how many civilians the Taliban killed in that same period is apples to oranges.

Dead kids are dead kids. Are the ones WE killed any more or less dead? Nope. It is WE, btw. I am willing to accept my part of the blame. Are you?

Who said the soldier gets a pass? He's fucked. Not even because he will pay in a military court of law, but because he killed kids. That is an automatic life-fucker.

Why should his command get a pass? They gave a baby killer a weapon. AND he was drinking on base. That is a huge no-no. You tards act like making the command (however high you have to go) pay for their part gives the soldier a pass.

I like the mommy board faux-concern I'm getting from you and user. Doesn't matter WHY it happened or if we can make it not happen again, just blame the man who transgressed and move on...

This story has more than 16 victims and more than one villian.

And yet, you still refuse to answer the question about the black kid who is brought up in a fucked up/violent/abusive environment who goes out and shoots someone and how that relates to personal responsibility. Please, cause and effect...right?

And again, I said earlier, questioning how this came to happen (how he was re-deployed after his head injury etc.) are totally reasonable questions but that doesn't mean we should shrug our shoulders over what this guy did. It's not typical. He needs to bare responsibility.

[Cracker]

When we talk about cutting back the military what we are really talking about is making men and women deploy more often than they should. You will see more of this.

The guy is fucked. There is no escaping what he did. Suggesting otherwise is just dumb.

I bet more than 9 black kids died today in America. What's your point?

Each Day in America for Black Children

July 2011
•1 child is killed by abuse or neglect.
•4 children or teens are killed by firearms.
•5 children or teens die from accidents.
•25 babies die before their first birthdays.
•94 children are arrested for drug offenses.
•96 children are arrested for violent offenses.
•233 babies are born at low birthweight.
•312 babies are born to teen mothers.
•332 babies are born without health insurance.
•417 children are confirmed as abused or neglected.
•442 public school students are corporally punished.*
•936 high school students drop out.*
•607 babies are born into poverty.
•1,296 children are arrested.
•1,317 babies are born to unmarried mothers.
•6,916 public school students are suspended.
* Based on calculations per school day (180 days of seven hours each)

[Cracker]

And yet, you still refuse to answer the question about the black kid who is brought up in a fucked up/violent/abusive environment who goes out and shoots someone and how that relates to personal responsibility.

Honestly, I just skimmed some of your posts. Shut up, you do it, too.

In case you didn't notice, I'm the first one bitching about the parents who raise POS black kids (or any POS kids). You can't use that argument on me.

[username]

When we talk about cutting back the military what we are really talking about is making men and women deploy more often than they should. You will see more of this.

The guy is fucked. There is no escaping what he did. Suggesting otherwise is just dumb.

I bet more than 9 black kids died today in America. What's your point?

You brought up the point by questioning cause and effect. If you're going to question what caused this guy to snap, I think it's equally fair (or unreasonable depending on how you look at it) to question what causes other people to snap.

When I heard he was on his 4^th deployment, I was kind of shocked but then I think I heard that some soldiers are deployed far more many times than that? I totally think this is an opportunity to examine these things...but it doesn't change what this one soldier did.

[HairOfTheDog]

Comparing the murder of 16 civilians outside of his military capacity and authority to how many civilians the Taliban killed in that same period is apples to oranges.

Dead kids are dead kids. Are the ones WE killed any more or less dead? Nope. It is WE, btw. I am willing to accept my part of the blame. Are you?

Who said the soldier gets a pass? He's fucked. Not even because he will pay in a military court of law, but because he killed kids. That is an automatic life-fucker.

Why should his command get a pass? They gave a baby killer a weapon. AND he was drinking on base. That is a huge no-no. You tards act like making the command (however high you have to go) pay for their part gives the soldier a pass.

I like the mommy board faux-concern I'm getting from you and user. Doesn't matter WHY it happened or if we can make it not happen again, just blame the man who transgressed and move on...

This story has more than 16 victims and more than one villian.

I disagree with you. I've never read/posted on a "mommy board", so that part is irrelevant to me.

Every time someone goes off the rails and kills people, there is a reason why he/she went off the rails and killed people. Doesn't matter where it happened or who did it, there is always cause and effect.

I read the posts objectively. Crime prevention is always prudent; for this particular type of crime or any other. I didn't see anyone suggesting otherwise. The issue right here and now is that one man took a gun in the middle of the night, went into the homes of sleeping families, and slaughtered them. Matters not to me that they are not American families or that their cultural values may be different than mine. It was not self defense and it was not part of a military action. It was one man's actions. To what degree he will be held accountable, considering mitigatiing circumstances, will be determined in court.

I think if this was a man in Los Angeles who saw his friend get shot at work and severely injured, went out drinking, and then shot down a bunch of people, your position might be different. I see them as very similar situations. I'm not minimizing the impacts of war and war zones, but this soldier was there to do a job and committed a horrendous crime in the process. You are laying a lot of weight on his bosses. Maybe that's fitting; I'd like to hear more of the story. Still doesn't change the fact that this one man killed 16 civilians by his own hand.

And, of course I'm not saying that other children who die in the area aren't as important. That's a ludicrous assertion. We are talking about the people killed by this one man, acting entirely on his own. The fact that other tragic deaths are occuring in the area doesn't minimize these 16, for me.

[Cracker]

A soldier never acts "entirely on his own." They are OUR soldiers. They act in our name. They are accountable as government property to their superiors. You can't apply civilian justice to our military.

They don't just wander on and off bases. Alcohol IS NOT ALLOWED is Muslim countries on our bases. More than one person dropped this ball.

If we punish only the one soldier, nothing will change. Our men and women will continue to be driven past the point of sound functioning. Fix the problem, don't just hand out punishment.

Some of us are more invested in this war because it cost us more than a few words on a screen. You won't understand and I won't explain, but the simplistic views I see here just make me shake my head.

[Lady Cop]

The wife of the U.S. Army staff sergeant suspected of killing 16 Afghans, including nine children, says she's as confused as anyone else about the crimes her husband is accused of.

In a statement to ABC News, Karilyn Bales said her heart goes out to all the victims in the massacre, where her husband Robert Bales is accused of going house-to-house firing on civilians at random and attempting to burn some of the bodies.

She said: 'My family including my and Bob’s extended families are all profoundly sad. We extend our condolences to all the people of the Panjawai District'.

'Our family has little information beyond what we read and see in the media. What has been reported is completely out of character of the man I know and admire'.

Her comments came on the day that Bales' attorney John Henry Browne said he met the soldier for the first time since he was brought to Fort Leavenworth on Friday night.

Lawyer John Henry Browne said he met for more than three hours with Robert Bales, a 10-year Army veteran who is being held in an isolated cell at the military prison.

Mr Browne said: 'What's going on on the ground in Afghanistan, you read about it, I read about it, but it's totally different when you hear about it from somebody who's been there'.

[HairOfTheDog]

A soldier never acts "entirely on his own." They are OUR soldiers. They act in our name. They are accountable as government property to their superiors. You can't apply civilian justice to our military.

They don't just wander on and off bases. Alcohol IS NOT ALLOWED is Muslim countries on our bases. More than one person dropped this ball.

If we punish only the one soldier, nothing will change. Our men and women will continue to be driven past the point of sound functioning. Fix the problem, don't just hand out punishment.

Some of us are more invested in this war because it cost us more than a few words on a screen. You won't understand and I won't explain, but the simplistic views I see here just make me shake my head.

You aren't the only one shaking her head. And, you don't know about personal investments others might have in this war. And, nobody said that others shouldn't be punished IF they are complicit; some just asserted that it doesn't change the fact that Mr. Bales holds personal responsibility for his own actions, no matter what.

I do not believe that because someone is a soldier that they are no longer an individual and that they are owned by me or society in general. I have more respect for soldiers than that. Yes, they work as a team/unit to represent our country's interests and I support and appreciate them. But, they are a group of individuals working as a team. Some will be better people than others, same as any work environment. When one steps outside the team charter and acts on his own, it is "he" who is responsible for that decision and those actions. If he was traumatized and not thinking clearly at the time, or if his superiors were negligent in allowing him to maintain his job, these factors can be addressed in court.

Hopefully, potential future incidents of this nature can be minimized by evaluating the mitigating factors involved and making appropriate changes in maximum number of deployments, alcohol prohibition enforcement, and/or whatever it is that my be determined to have contributed to this crime. I don't disagree with you there.

On everthing else, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

[username]

What HotD said.

[Mohammed]

So, moron, I'm not defending this guy for killing women and children. All the circumstances in his life led him to make a terrible decision.

Yeah, no shit

Bad, bad Bales

[Lady Cop]

So, moron, I'm not defending this guy for killing women and children. All the circumstances in his life led him to make a terrible decision.

Yeah, no shit

Bad, bad Bales

wow.
troubled guy indeed if that's true. but it's a long way from fraud to murdering babies en masse.

[HairOfTheDog]

Thanks for the link Mo.

http://news.yahoo.com/afghan-murder-susp...-news.html

I hope no one attempts to make the case that we should hold the US government responsible for the fact that this soldier was guilty of defrauding the elderly in 2000, according to financial regulators. I guess some could say that fraud, theft and exploitation of the elderly was justified because of a bad economy brought on by the government, but I wouldn't buy that argument either and would also hold Bales responsible for this unrelated fraud crime. And, wait, the economy was fine in 2000. Who to blame? Might we have to consider this man responsible for his own actions? Maybe since he wasn't wearing a uniform when he committed fraud on his own accord, we can go ahead and hold him accountable for that one?

[username]

Thanks for the link Mo.

http://news.yahoo.com/afghan-murder-susp...-news.html

I hope no one attempts to make the case that we should hold the US government responsible for the fact that this soldier was guilty of defrauding the elderly in 2000, according to financial regulators. I guess some could say that fraud, theft and exploitation of the elderly was justified because of a bad economy brought on by the government, but I wouldn't buy that argument either and would also hold Bales responsible for this unrelated fraud crime. And, wait, the economy was fine in 2000. Who to blame? Might we have to consider this man responsible for his own actions? Maybe since he wasn't wearing a uniform when he committed fraud on his own accord, we can go ahead and hold him accountable for that one?

[Mohammed]

wow.
troubled guy indeed if that's true. but it's a long way from fraud to murdering babies en masse.

Well, I say if you got a smile like that ....



.... it simply comes so much more easier.

[Lady Cop]

i was merely expressing disbelief and sad disappointment in the guy since PTSD does not account for defrauding the old man. we know he did the shooting/killing. one report now says he does not remember and wasn't drinking. they're going to have to go with the obvious mental defense or he'll likely get death penalty.