Open UP! This is the poli.......BAM.....unnhh

[Tommy Tourette]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03/23/...-into-law/

[HairOfTheDog]

Jesus, this is an ill-conceived law. Just like "stand your ground", it's way too subjective and leaves the decision as to what constitutes a threat and when it's okay to use deadly force on people who may feel threatened for no valid reason other than because they have a chip on their shoulder or because they are indeed doing something wrong. It's a built in defense for lawbreakers who find the police at their homes. "I didn't know I was doing anything wrong; that officer was a threat to my safety".

Internal Affairs, the media, defense lawyers, civil lawyers - all means by which a citizen can address what he/she feels is a questionable or illegal act by a police officer. What problem is Indiana trying to solve here? Have there been a series of wrongful entries by police where innocent citizens have wound up dead? If not, this is some majorly flawed bullshit. What the hell was Daniels thinking when he signed this bill into law? His attempt to qualify it as a "good thing" for police officers is weak and disjointed.

This POS legislation should have been vetoed, imo. It increases the risk to law enforcement officers unnecessarily.

[Lady Cop]

oh smart...now when police have a no-knock warrant, the drug dealers are allowed to shoot them. what the hell, they often get killed on domestic calls too.


FUCKING ASSHOLE----> Republican Governor Mitch Daniels

[HairOfTheDog]

oh smart...now when police have a no-knock warrant, the drug dealers are allowed to shoot them. what the hell, they often get killed on domestic calls too.


FUCKING ASSHOLE----> Republican Governor Mitch Daniels

There's a reason no-knock warrants exist. Tell ya what. I wouldn't blame an LEO in Indiana for refusing to participate in some of them once this law goes into effect. Also wouldn't be surprised to see no-knock warrants decline considerably. Let's restrict LE's tools/abilities to address crime, give criminals more power and excuses, and make it open season to take fire on LE in Indiana. Beautiful.

[Lady Cop]

a few years back a Palm Beach detective was serving a warrant on a child pornographer. the suspect opened the door to the detective's knock, and shot him with a deer rifle at point-blank range. now if he were in indifuckingana he could say the detective opened his door and scared him. the detective had 2 little children. and the rounds went right through his vest/armor and killed him.

if your own governor won't cover your back, fuck him, he can have the badge back. there are states where every effort is made to protect those who protect the rest of society.

[ZEROSPHERES]

Deputize the Indiana Govenor and the Indiana Senate and send them on all the no knock procedures. They wrote the law so they can interpret it and enforce it. Let them set the example showing everyone how easy and safe it is to implement.

[FAHQTOO]

Well, I'm shocked...Mitch Daniels has been a good governor for the most part. I haven't heard anything about this before he signed it. Not on the local news or on FB.
I thought we just passed a law that LEOs could enter anyones house without a warrant...that was all over the news for weeks.

I will say one thing though LC...the cops in my area have changed a lot over the last few years. Other than 2 of them, the rest are a bunch of assholes and bullies with a chip on their shoulder, and a badge on their chest.
They're not the no nonsense cops I was used to when I was my kid's age.If you got pulled over, chances are you got a ticket and you were on your way...and if you needed help, they gave it with respect. These young fuckers we have now harass you to no end, belittle you, and try their best to intimidate you and make you fear them. Nobody should have to feel fear when dealing with a cop, unless you're doing something that you need to be afraid.

I'm not saying I hate cops by any means, or that I want to see them killed for entering someones home, and...I don't agree with this law AT ALL, but with the way this country is going down the shitter...it's only going to get worse. People are making plans to take this country back...from the government, at all levels.

I'll write the Governor, and post something on FB also and tell others to do the same.

[Tommy Tourette]

...........
I will say one thing though LC...the cops in my area have changed a lot over the last few years. Other than 2 of them, the rest are a bunch of assholes and bullies with a chip on their shoulder, and a badge on their chest.

...................

amen!

Let's interject a bit of CAUTION into the cop mentality.
Maybe check an address a couple times before storming the door.

[Tommy Tourette]

Funny how different forums react to the same info

http://popforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=124774

[HairOfTheDog]

...........
I will say one thing though LC...the cops in my area have changed a lot over the last few years. Other than 2 of them, the rest are a bunch of assholes and bullies with a chip on their shoulder, and a badge on their chest.

...................

amen!

Let's interject a bit of CAUTION into the cop mentality.
Maybe check an address a couple times before storming the door.

No disagreement that there are definitely asshole cops and questionable searches everywhere. But, unless there's a trend of cops killing innocent people during searches and that problem can't be controlled by law enforcement management itself (and I haven't seen any such evidence of either, but doesn't mean it doesn't exist), then making it a civilian right to shoot a police officer if you feel threatened when they arrive at your door is ignorant and short-sighted, in my opinion.

[Cheyne]

Un-fucking-believable. Now you can legally shoot and/or kill a cop in Indiana? So when Bubba is kicking the shit out of his girlfriend and the cop tries to intervene-Bubba can kill him?

[Sterling]

For the sake of argument, how did the law read before this addition? I find it odd that the article prompting this discussion failed to mention ANY group or sponsorship behind the “new” legislation. So why the new law? I’d bet the ONLY difference between what was on the books before and now was a carte blanche shooting of anyone including public officials. Now the culprits need a reason. Where is that expert on Castle Law, sonny223? He’d know.

[IMaDick]

Homeland security has the power to do whatever the fuck they want, Federal law enforcement nation wide will be the LE of the future.

when the fed wants to reduce one places power this is how it's done and then they swoop in and fill the power void.

Remember you heard it here first dipshits.

[HairOfTheDog]

For the sake of argument, how did the law read before this addition? I find it odd that the article prompting this discussion failed to mention ANY group or sponsorship behind the “new” legislation. So why the new law? I’d bet the ONLY difference between what was on the books before and now was a carte blanche shooting of anyone including public officials. Now the culprits need a reason. Where is that expert on Castle Law, sonny223? He’d know.

This is a good question; did a little research. Still don't know the motivation behind this new law signed by Gov. Daniels, but here's some relevant history that I found interesting.

1. Amendment IV of US Constitution - Enacted December of 1791:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

Purpose / Problem to be solved:
Abuse of "writ of assistance" requirements for government and military officials to enter private homes during the American Revolution.

2. May of 2011: (Indiana Supreme Court Ruling):
Justice Steven David writing for the court said if a police officer wants to enter a home for any reason or no reason at all, a homeowner cannot do anything to block the officer's entry.

"We believe ... a right to resist an unlawful police entry into a home is against public policy and is incompatible with modern Fourth Amendment jurisprudence," David said. "We also find that allowing resistance unnecessarily escalates the level of violence and therefore the risk of injuries to all parties involved without preventing the arrest." Davidfurther stated that other means of resisting (complaint, legal action against an unlawful search... ) was the appropriate solution/resistance.

Purpose / Problem to be solved: To minimize violence if unlawful police entry takes place in a civilian's home (best I can surmise).


3. March of 2012: The new Indiana law (passed by Governor Daniels):
Reverses a state Supreme Court ruling that homeowners do not have the right to use force against law enforcement officials who they believe are illegally entering their homes.

Purpose / Problem to be solved: ??
This is what I don't understand; was unable to find a clear mission statement. Was the 2011 ruling overturned to take the heat off Indiana government officials because Indiana voters objected to it as unconstitutional? Was it because Indiana LE was taking advantage of the "no-resist" nature of the 2011 law and entering homes without showing probable cause and obtaining the necessary knock or no-knock warrants?

[IMaDick]

For the sake of argument, how did the law read before this addition? I find it odd that the article prompting this discussion failed to mention ANY group or sponsorship behind the “new” legislation. So why the new law? I’d bet the ONLY difference between what was on the books before and now was a carte blanche shooting of anyone including public officials. Now the culprits need a reason. Where is that expert on Castle Law, sonny223? He’d know.

This is a good question; did a little research. Still don't know the motivation behind this new law signed by Gov. Daniels, but here's some relevant history that I found interesting.

1. Amendment IV of US Constitution - Enacted December of 1791:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

Purpose / Problem to be solved:
Abuse of "writ of assistance" requirements for government and military officials to enter private homes during the American Revolution.

2. May of 2011: (Indiana Supreme Court Ruling):
Justice Steven David writing for the court said if a police officer wants to enter a home for any reason or no reason at all, a homeowner cannot do anything to block the officer's entry.

"We believe ... a right to resist an unlawful police entry into a home is against public policy and is incompatible with modern Fourth Amendment jurisprudence," David said. "We also find that allowing resistance unnecessarily escalates the level of violence and therefore the risk of injuries to all parties involved without preventing the arrest." Davidfurther stated that other means of resisting (complaint, legal action against an unlawful search... ) was the appropriate solution/resistance.

Purpose / Problem to be solved: To minimize violence if unlawful police entry takes place in a civilian's home (best I can surmise).


3. March of 2012: The new Indiana law (passed by Governor Daniels):
Reverses a state Supreme Court ruling that homeowners do not have the right to use force against law enforcement officials who they believe are illegally entering their homes.

Purpose / Problem to be solved: ??
This is what I don't understand; was unable to find a clear mission statement. Was the 2011 overturned it to take the heat off Indiana government officials because Indiana voters objected to the 2011 as unconstitutional? Was it because Indiana LE was taking advantage of the "no-resist" nature of the 2011 law and entering homes without showing probable cause and obtaining the necessary knock or no-knock warrants?

Now find a way to apply those Constitutional principles to homeland security and you have it made, and while you're at it take a look at the war powers act that was signed on st patricks day and see if you can find a way to justify it based on a war on foreign soil.

I would love to sit close and have a deep serious conversation about life with you sometime.

[HairOfTheDog]

Now find a way to apply those Constitutional principles to homeland security and you have it made, and while you're at it take a look at the war powers act that was signed on st patricks day and see if you can find a way to justify it based on a war on foreign soil.

I would love to sit close and have a deep serious conversation about life with you sometime.

Well hell Dick, get a fire going, open a bottle, throw some music on and I'm there. I like to just shoot the shit, but always open to deep conversation and learning from others. Don't call me a "dipshit" in person, though. That kinda shit makes me want to slap and tickle people. Don't know why.