2012 ELECTION

[Duchess]

Do you mean Condi? She can't be trusted, she's a lying twat like so many of the others.

[HairOfTheDog]

Barry is just kicking back now, the debates cannot come fast enough as I believe he will stumble quite a bit. He has stayed out of the shark infested waters. I also think Ron Paul will hold his delegates hostage in the final countdown. Using them as a leverage for some form of sanity in this mess.

I think you were probably right in your prediction. Ron Paul still hasn't handed over an endorsement to Romney - the Romney camp really wants (and needs, imo) those Libertarian and Independent votes. The Paul camp strategy is interesting to follow, imo.

Just watched the Republican National Convention highlights; Ron Paul's son, Senator Rand Paul, delivered a speech and only mentioned Romney one time. He contradicted a key point that Romney had emphasized. While Romney made it clear that he does not believe in cutting defense spending, Senator Paul argued that defense cuts should be part of any budget-cutting plan.

[HairOfTheDog]

RON PAUL'S IMPACT/INFLUENCE ON 2012 ELECTION?

Ron Paul says that he did not speak at the RNC because the planners offered him a speaking slot only if he met these 2 conditions:

1. that he deliver remarks vetted by the Romney campaign
2. that he give a full-fledged endorsement of Mr. Romney

He was interviewed by the New York Times and said that he declined because: “It wouldn’t be my speech; that would undo everything I’ve done in the last 30 years. I don’t fully endorse him for president.”

Meanwhile, his son Senator Rand Paul has endorsed Romney, spoke at the convention, and continues to be mentioned as a possible candidate for 2016.

There seems to be a lot of strife in the Ron Paul camp at this time, especially after many of his delegates walked out of the convention due to a change in party rules. It's hard to get a feel for what the end goal truly is; lots of inconsistent opinions and analysis across press sources.

It seems that some of Ron Paul's followers want to make in-roads by supporting the Republican party and will compromise generously on the Libertarian agenda to do so, for the future. Others are fundamentalist fundamentalists and want to stick with the agenda at all costs. JMO. Whatever is happening behind the scenes and within his contingency, I really do think (and hope) that finally a viable 3^rd party option is emerging for 2016, whether it be under the Republican party umbrella or not. If so, it's a big deal.

Ron Paul's support and delegates are still important in this election, imo. They could really help Romney inch closer to Obama. The debates are only several weeks away - curious as to what the Paul camp's official stance will be by the time the candidates face the nation directly on the issues (and how much influence, if any, Ron Paul has in getting some of his agenda incorporated into the Republican platform in trade for support and delegates).

I still feel like I'm choosing between the lesser of two evils in 2012 (though Ryan makes Romney's ticket more appealing to me), but maybe 2016 or 2020 will offer something more.

[pspence]

why is it that republicans are so outspoken about illegals coming into our country but are dead silent about huge corporations outsourcing our U.S. jobs? I think they are all a bunch of crooks.

[Donovan]

why is it that republicans are so outspoken about illegals coming into our country but are dead silent about huge corporations outsourcing our U.S. jobs? I think they are all a bunch of crooks.

Because as nonvoters who are foreigners, non-european and brown colored, they represent the perfect boogeymen for the current superconservative xenophobic caucasian party base of the GOP. Meanwhile corporations drive the funding engine and therefor have tremendous clout. It's our fault really for creating a situation where the best panderer wins. We deserve what we get.

[Jimbone]

Because as nonvoters who are foreigners, non-european and brown colored, they represent the perfect boogeymen for the current superconservative xenophobic caucasian party base of the GOP. Meanwhile corporations drive the funding engine and therefor have tremendous clout. It's our fault really for creating a situation where the best panderer wins. We deserve what we get.

That's a little hyperbolic, isn't it?

Talk to people of any political persuasion in southern California who have watched their hospitals close, schools become overcrowded, and state finances become a shambles because of unchecked immigration.

The enormous financial strain it causes is truly the untold story of illegal immigration. If you haven't lived in a border state, or done social service work in a border state you truly have no idea how endemic and problematic it is.

To me it's a financial issue, period.

[Duchess]

I'm not politically savy so this may be a very dumb question but why aren't these big corporations & others who employ overseas workers given the kind of tax breaks needed to keep their companies here? I've never understood that. If you want to create jobs in America give the employers what they need in order to make those jobs available. It sounds so simple to me.

[HairOfTheDog]

I'm not politically savy so this may be a very dumb question but why aren't these big corporations & others who employ overseas workers given the kind of tax breaks needed to keep their companies here? I've never understood that. If you want to create jobs in America give the employers what they need in order to make those jobs available. It sounds so simple to me.

Obama's been hitting Romney hard on his business record regarding outsourcing for some time.

Part of Romney's economic & tax plan (released before the Ryan VP announcement) calls for tax breaks to companies who pull work back to the US.

ETA: Obama's plan includes a similar incentive.

[username]

I read this morning that Clint Eastwood's speech was somewhat bizarre. He spoke to an empty chair next to him pretending that Obama was seated there?

Made me sad. I love Clint and he's getting old.

[Maggot]

Empty chair empty suit same same.

[username]

Empty chair empty suit same same.

Did you watch it? I read that Clint rambled. :(

[Duchess]

I read this morning that Clint Eastwood's speech was somewhat bizarre. He spoke to an empty chair next to him pretending that Obama was seated there?

Made me sad. I love Clint and he's getting old.

I watched it & it was very bizarre, he got a lot of laughs and those there appeared to be completely into it which made it even more strange. I really didn't even get it at first and had a WTF moment.

For the first time I thought he looked old. I think I heard someone say he is 82.

[Donovan]

Because as nonvoters who are foreigners, non-european and brown colored, they represent the perfect boogeymen for the current superconservative xenophobic caucasian party base of the GOP. Meanwhile corporations drive the funding engine and therefor have tremendous clout. It's our fault really for creating a situation where the best panderer wins. We deserve what we get.

That's a little hyperbolic, isn't it?

Talk to people of any political persuasion in southern California who have watched their hospitals close, schools become overcrowded, and state finances become a shambles because of unchecked immigration.

The enormous financial strain it causes is truly the untold story of illegal immigration. If you haven't lived in a border state, or done social service work in a border state you truly have no idea how endemic and problematic it is.

To me it's a financial issue, period.

I have lived in border states many times over the years, and the "immigration problem" is a paper tiger. Hospitals don't close because of immigrants, they close because they are bought up by private insurance and medical corporations for the purpose of shutting them down. It's happened half a dozen times in my area with nary a Messican in sight. Further, the undocumented worker supply in border and harvesting states is damn near slave labor and supports our entire farm system at this point. Those people rarely see the inside of a decent home, let alone an emergency room. I've done business with migrant workers, and the conditions in which they exist in our country is generally pretty appalling.

What I said about the illegal immigrants being nonvoters is true. They don't have a bloc, so their voices are irrelevant. They don't matter except as a smoke screen.

As for "purely financial issue" I agree. In any situation where money is bleeding out at an aortic pace and entire economies are being drained like Robert Pattinson's prom date, in order to find the source of the problem you have to follow the flow of money to where it winds up.

And that sure as hell isn't the migrant worker population. There are people and corporations getting rich. Those people and corporations have the ear of the elected government because they spend and vote and pay for those elected officials, who must pander to as many sides as possible to get elected. And that is the answer to the OP question.

[HairOfTheDog]

why is it that republicans are so outspoken about illegals coming into our country but are dead silent about huge corporations outsourcing our U.S. jobs? I think they are all a bunch of crooks.

Here's my understanding about what's been addressed by both parties so far, pspence (and I believe that the Dems will be pushing the Republicans hard on the issue during the debates in Oct - we should here a lot more then).

Romney believes in free enterprise and global competition. He wants the business tax codes and loopholes reformed, which he believes will make using American sources more competitive for American companies. Imo, not a reward for keeping jobs here, but a tax reform that will result in encouraging/allowing businesses to keep more jobs here.

Obama proposes a more direct approach; he wants to reduce business tax and give direct incentives/rewards to companies who keep work in the US and/or bring it back home. Obama sees outsourcing as a negative and wants legislation passed to create more jobs.

(If interested, see post 747 for July press conference comments by both candidates regarding jobs/taxes)

[Riotgear]

why is it that republicans are so outspoken about illegals coming into our country but are dead silent about huge corporations outsourcing our U.S. jobs? I think they are all a bunch of crooks.

Here's my understanding about what's been addressed by both parties so far, pspence (and I believe that the Dems will be pushing the Republicans hard on the issue during the debates in Oct - we should here a lot more then).

Romney believes in free enterprise and global competition. He wants the business tax codes and loopholes reformed, which he believes will make using American sources more competitive for American companies. Imo, not a reward for keeping jobs here, but a tax reform that will result in encouraging/allowing businesses to keep more jobs here.

Obama proposes a more direct approach; he wants to reduce business tax and give direct incentives/rewards to companies who keep work in the US and/or bring it back home. Obama sees outsourcing as a negative and wants legislation passed to create more jobs.

(If interested, see post 747 for July press conference comments by both candidates regarding jobs/taxes)

[pspence]

I read this morning that Clint Eastwood's speech was somewhat bizarre. He spoke to an empty chair next to him pretending that Obama was seated there?

Made me sad. I love Clint and he's getting old.

I watched it & it was very bizarre, he got a lot of laughs and those there appeared to be completely into it which made it even more strange. I really didn't even get it at first and had a WTF moment.

For the first time I thought he looked old. I think I heard someone say he is 82.

He looked 92. It was embarrassing. If I were a loved one I wouldn't have let him do it...I bet he is crushed reading the reviews

[Jimbone]

I have lived in border states many times over the years, and the "immigration problem" is a paper tiger. Hospitals don't close because of immigrants, they close because they are bought up by private insurance and medical corporations for the purpose of shutting them down. It's happened half a dozen times in my area with nary a Messican in sight. Further, the undocumented worker supply in border and harvesting states is damn near slave labor and supports our entire farm system at this point. Those people rarely see the inside of a decent home, let alone an emergency room. I've done business with migrant workers, and the conditions in which they exist in our country is generally pretty appalling.

What I said about the illegal immigrants being nonvoters is true. They don't have a bloc, so their voices are irrelevant. They don't matter except as a smoke screen.

As for "purely financial issue" I agree. In any situation where money is bleeding out at an aortic pace and entire economies are being drained like Robert Pattinson's prom date, in order to find the source of the problem you have to follow the flow of money to where it winds up.

And that sure as hell isn't the migrant worker population. There are people and corporations getting rich. Those people and corporations have the ear of the elected government because they spend and vote and pay for those elected officials, who must pander to as many sides as possible to get elected. And that is the answer to the OP question.

Hospitals close because they are unable to pay their bills or there is not demand for their service. Even if I concede that every for profit hospital closed because of greedy hospital barons, half of the closures in CA have been non-profit hospitals. They close because of reduced MediCal and MediCare reimbursements... included in that are reimbursements they could not claim because of the number of non-citizens they treat.

Also, as far as following the flow of money... you know I am talking about the money that flows into government programs and is then administered by government and social service agencies, right? I'm not talking about the corporate cronyism that is going on - I was strictly speaking of the public revenues that go into social services. It's been my experience that these agencies provide benefits to illegal aliens as easily as they provide them to citizens. These agencies then can claim higher service numbers, and justify their increasing budget request. It's the bureaucratic shuffle.

Trying to argue that illegal immigrants do not use up services or are somehow not accessing services intended for citizens would be disingenuous. It's happening in every state, not just border states.

Cheesus, we even have "sanctuary cities" that will openly flout established immigration policy.

It's a hot mess, just like user's nose.

He looked 92. It was embarrassing. If I were a loved one I wouldn't have let him do it...I bet he is crushed reading the reviews

I'm guessing Clint doesn't give a shit at this point in his life. He delivered a few lines that hit their mark, so I'm sure he's happy.

[Duchess]

It's a hot mess, just like user's nose.

Hahaha!

[username]

It's a hot mess, just like user's nose.

Hahaha!

Day 3. Ugh.

I keep turning the channel when they start talking about Clint's appearance (and I just saw something that said "Clint Eastwood argues with empty chair--loses"). He has and always will remind me of my father. Similar facial features, build etc. Besides that, you know how Clint used to sort of grimace/pull up one side of his mouth...? My dad did that when he was pissed. When he made that face you just KNEW the shit was going to hit the fan.

[Duchess]

Fox News joined CNN, The Huffington Post, the Washington Post's Wonkblog, and ThinkProgress in publishing a fact-check of the Republican vice presidential nominee's speech, finding that the speech was full of lies and misleading assertions.

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