LABOR UNIONS & RIGHT TO WORK

[Adub]

Driving in that city is the shits.

[HairOfTheDog]

Driving in that city is the shits.

Yes, it is. But, the driving in this city, even in the rain, isn't as bad as the parking experience (most of the time).

[thekid65]

Unions time have come and gone. As was previously mentioned, Big Brother pretty much takes care of all the shit that the unions were formed to handle in the first place. (sweat shops, dangerous working conditions, etc) I noted the stats that you posted HOTD:

Pay rates average 3.2% less : A pretty insignificant number, especially when it can be offset a bit by the union worker having to pay dues. I tried to look around to see how much typical union dues are. Not a lot of info out there on this. Typically it appears it's based on a percentage of ones salary. I did see a couple of articles where folks were talking in the $80/month range.

Unions make it very difficult, if not impossible at times to fire the incompetent, or sub-par worker. A major contention here in I-dee-ho when it comes to the teachers union. Pretty much the only thing they can fire them for nowadays is being a child molester. As far as wages go, due to the pay scale, what ends up happening a lot is that poor teachers get rewarded, while excellent teachers do not.

Unions raise the cost of the product being produced, by higher labor costs.

Unions donate a lot of surplus $$$ to political parties (typically the left), leading to corruption in one way or another for sure.

Pensions? Another concept who's time has come and gone. I've always been of the opinion that folks should be responsible for their own investing/saving for retirement. We've all heard the horror stories of pension funds going tits up, leaving those that were counting on them high-and-dry. I honestly feel sorry for those folks.

I think a lot of business owners, especially small businesses, are good people. They want to pay their people a good wage, and give them benefits. They want to succeed. They want to provide a good working environment. A happy employee is a productive employee, generally speaking. Productive employees make the company money, and help the company grow, as long as the owner has a solid business plan. All of this can be accomplished w/o the expense and hassle of dealing with a labor union.

Not surprising that unions are generally supported by the self-entitled bullshit politics of the Democrats. Everyone needs someone to take care of them, as opposed to making folks stand on their own two feet. Everyone deserves to be treated the same, regardless of the amount of work, or quality of work they produce.

The downside to RTW? Yeah, you can pretty much be fired for anything, even if you're a solid employee. But tell me, what employer really wants to fire his good employees w/o just cause? I'd love to hear anyone come up with solid reasoning as to why unions are good for America.

Sphincter Cop? How about you? Being a policeman, surely you are a member of a union, yes? Surely you see a lot of worthless policeman out there who should be fired, yes? Does the union do you, personally any good at all? Or, is this another thing you're not allowed to talk about.

[HairOfTheDog]

I'd like to hear more from anyone who has positive or negative personal experience with unions too.

I worked in Aerospace while I was working toward my Bach Degree at night. My position was classified as "management", though I primarily interfaced with union employees on the manufacturing floor. There was a lot of dead weight amongst union employees with seniority (but some great productive people too). That's my only direct experience with unions and that was back in the late 80s and early 90s.



Note:
This quote from my OP is no longer valid: "With the unemployment rate shooting rom 7.0% in Oct 2012 to 7.8% in Nov 2012..."

I read this morning that the unemployment rate for November has been adjusted (along with September's and October's). The new report shows that November's unemployment rate is 7.7%, which is the lowest in 4 years after adjustments.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/07/news/eco...?iid=s_mpm

[username]

Apparently worker protection laws are REALLY fucked up in Europe. I was half paying attention to a John Stossel program yesterday. Here's an excerpt from his blog...

Politicians claim they make our lives better by passing laws. But usually the laws go wrong. Examples:
Work rules protect employees from greedy companies.
Wall Street Journal Reporter Anne Jolis says work rules destroyed jobs in Europe. Workers there get "vacation do-overs"- if they are sick on vacation, they get additional paid time off to make up for it. In Spain, employers must give 24 months of severance pay after they fire someone. No wonder companies don't hire.
America doesn't have mandatory vacation time, but we still have 170,000 pages of rules. Dan Mitchell from the CATO Institute says those rules are a reason this economic recovery is slower than all the others.


Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/stosse...z2Ea847cdC

[Duchess]

Vacation "do overs"? Wow. Dumb rule, so is the 24 months of severance pay. That's no way to do business.

[HairOfTheDog]

Vacation "do overs"? Wow. Dumb rule, so is the 24 months of severance pay. That's no way to do business.

Very dumb policies just begging to be exploited.

Imagine the number of people who falsely claim to have been sick during their vacations in order to get more paid vacation - bet it's a lot. Bet the number of people who purposely get fired so that they can then spend the next couple of years being paid to lounge and look for the next gig is high too.

Thanks for posting that info, user. Most of Europe's had really generous employee-oriented labor laws for at least 20 years. But, I had no idea that they'd gotten so extreme; almost certainly a contributing factor in Europe's economic struggles.

I agree with Kid - legitimate business owners in this day and age know what it takes to maintain good employees and that includes fairness and reasonable compensation. Labor laws are important to ensure that workers don't get exploited by seedy employers, but neither governments nor unions should have the power to strangle-hold businesses. In the end, it not only hurts businesses' profitability (and/or forces them to shut their doors or relocate), but also negatively impacts job growth - which hurts the whole of the employee pool in the region, imo.

[HairOfTheDog]

Snipped:

LANSING, Mich. (AP) — Democrats in Michigan's Legislature and congressional delegation made a final push Monday to stall Republican-led right-to-work proposals that would limit the power of unions in the major Midwest industrial state.

U.S. Sen. Carl Levin and Michigan Democrats in the U.S. House met with Gov. Rick Snyder Monday morning in Detroit and urged him to veto the legislation, which could get final passage as early as Tuesday when the Legislature reconvenes. Levin said Snyder pledged to "seriously consider" the group's requests, including their demand for a statewide referendum on the issue.

President Barack Obama, who has stated his opposition to right-to-work legislation in Michigan and elsewhere, arrived at a suburban Detroit auto plant Monday afternoon. He was greeted by Snyder as well as Democratic members of Michigan's congressional delegation.

Full story here:
http://start.new.toshiba.com/news/read.p...3E&ps=1011


Gov. Snyder's under some hard-core political pressure.

[username]

I hope to hell he doesn't buckle.

[Maggot]

He should turn it into law then take a golfing vacation in Hawaii

[HairOfTheDog]

I think Snyder's gonna sign it; he had to expect a lot of uproar from Democrats and Union activists when he got behind the legislation. But, the Union demonstrators aren't giving up yet. Lot's going on in Lansing this morning.



Crowds are converging on Lansing, as a rally is being held outside the Lansing Center, near the state capital. From there, the crowd will march to the capitol building.

Union demonstrators rallying against right-to-work legislation in Michigan have turned the front lawn of the state Capitol into an impromptu carnival that includes giant, inflatable rats representing Republicans supporting the divisive measure.

Inflatable rats appeared on the edge of the lawn Tuesday morning holding signs that say, "The Rat Pack." The rats include signs labeling the three top Republicans pushing the legislation quickly through the GOP-controlled Legislature: Gov. Rick Snyder, Senate Majority Leader Randy Richardville and House Speaker Jase Bolger.

Activists also erected tents and inflated two giant inflatable eagles.

Union members stood on the front steps waving flags and leading chants, including "This is what democracy looks like" and "Who's house? Our house."

State police have set up guard outside every Michigan Capitol entrance as lawmakers prepare to push through right-to-work legislation.


Full story here:
http://www.wnem.com/story/20312699/gover...egislation


If Michigan, in particular, passes this RTW legislation, it's a big hit to unions across the country, imo. This is a huge deal. If Snyder bites the bullet and signs off, I wouldn't blame him if he took off for some golfing or fishing (or at least a few drinks); what a shit storm for him personally.

[FAHQTOO]

I think Snyder's gonna sign it; he had to expect a lot of uproar from Democrats and Union activists when he got behind the legislation. But, the Union demonstrators aren't giving up yet. Lot's going on in Lansing this morning.



Crowds are converging on Lansing, as a rally is being held outside the Lansing Center, near the state capital. From there, the crowd will march to the capitol building.

Union demonstrators rallying against right-to-work legislation in Michigan have turned the front lawn of the state Capitol into an impromptu carnival that includes giant, inflatable rats representing Republicans supporting the divisive measure.

Inflatable rats appeared on the edge of the lawn Tuesday morning holding signs that say, "The Rat Pack." The rats include signs labeling the three top Republicans pushing the legislation quickly through the GOP-controlled Legislature: Gov. Rick Snyder, Senate Majority Leader Randy Richardville and House Speaker Jase Bolger.

Activists also erected tents and inflated two giant inflatable eagles.

Union members stood on the front steps waving flags and leading chants, including "This is what democracy looks like" and "Who's house? Our house."

State police have set up guard outside every Michigan Capitol entrance as lawmakers prepare to push through right-to-work legislation.


Full story here:
http://www.wnem.com/story/20312699/gover...egislation


If Michigan, in particular, passes this RTW legislation, it's a big hit to unions across the country, imo. This is a huge deal. If Snyder bites the bullet and signs off, I wouldn't blame him if he took off for some golfing or fishing (or at least a few drinks); what a shit storm for him personally.

And this is what Union thugs do when they don't get their way. Stomping on peaceful protesters underneath a tent they tore down.

[HairOfTheDog]

And this is what Union thugs do when they don't get their way. Stomping on peaceful protesters underneath a tent they tore down.

Yep, over 10,000 people showed up in Lansing last night; some to protest and some to act like thuggish dipshits. I read that when RTW was passed in Wisconsin last year, Union activists occupied and protested at the capitol for 3 weeks. Michigan LE geared up big time last night to nip something similar in the bud.

Governor Snyder signed the Michigan RTW bills in to law on Tuesday, 12/11/12 pm.
By a 58-51 vote, the Republican-led House passed a bill that would ban workplace rules that make union membership a condition of employment for government workers. It then approved a second bill, covering private-sector workers, by a vote of 58-52.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/...sands?lite

[Maggot]

Now you will see the unions true colors.

[HairOfTheDog]

This is a very good piece, imo, about how organized labor (down to 11% of the workforce now) across the country is planning to politically regain its ground by targeting Republican leaders and further supporting Democratic ones.

Snip:
WASHINGTON (AP) — Blindsided by a new law weakening union rights in Michigan, organized labor is preparing to target Republican governors in politically important states up for re-election in 2014 — part of a renewed offensive against perceived anti-union policies.

While unions fared reasonably well nationally last month at the ballot box, their struggle to survive has forced them to spend staggering sums just trying to hold ground. It is money not spent on recruiting new workers to stem a membership decline that has made unions more vulnerable than ever.

"It's unfortunate that that's the case," said Michael Podhorzer, political director for the AFL-CIO. "But the reality of having elected officials who are so anti-organizing is that this is the first step to getting to the point where we can organize workers."

In Michigan, Gov. Rick Snyder signed legislation last week prohibiting unions from requiring workers to pay dues or representation fees, even if they are covered by union contracts.

It was another jarring blow for unions in Michigan, a cradle of the modern American labor movement. Unions already had spent $22 million this year in the state on a failed effort to enshrine collective bargaining rights in the Michigan Constitution.

Full Story here:
http://start.new.toshiba.com/news/read.p...011&page=1