walking while black - Trayvon Martin

[HairOfTheDog]

Sooooo, T knows that George has a gun but George has forgotten he does?

Really hoping that George Zimmerman takes the stand.

I have so many questions from his written statement that night that I hope are addressed during the trial.

Here's one that bothers me.

George says Trayvon emerged from the darkness after he called 911 dispatch and went out to look for a street sign and to see what way the "suspect" had headed.

He says that when Trayvon asked him if had a problem, that he (George) made a conscious decision not to identify himself as NW or tell him that he'd called authorities because he didn't want to cause a confrontation. Instead, he just told Trayvon, "no".

Then, George says that Trayvon said, "you do now". At which time, George says that he reached for his cell phone to call 911 again and Trayvon punched him in the face.

My question is, if George thought that Trayvon would be provoked by authority, rather than diffused by it, why would he think that calling authorities right in front of Trayvon would be any less likely to cause a confrontation than telling Trayvon he was NW or that he'd just called authorities? It makes no sense at all to me.

And, since George chose never to identify himself, when he reached for his cell phone, is it reasonable to assume that Trayvon might have thought he was reaching for something else? Was that something else possibly visible at that time?

I'd like to hear George explain the rationale for some of his decisions that night and his perceptions of Trayvon's reaction to him, under oath and under cross examination. In conjunction with the forensics and time line, that's the best hope for determining whether his version of events is truth or fiction, imo.

Here's George's written statement that night, for reference:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/...cript.html

[Cynical Ninja]

Sooooo, T knows that George has a gun but George has forgotten he does?

Are you blatantly ignorant or are you trying to score points with the Trayvon supporters?

How is she ignorant? She is telling the truth!

Zimmerman apparently forget about the gun he was carrying that Trayvon somehow did know was there!

Illogical captain, I think you will agree.

[Duchess]

I have so many questions from his written statement that night that I hope are addressed during the trial.

I think you're in the wrong profession, you would have made a hell of an attorney.

[Midwest Spy]

Sooooo, T knows that George has a gun but George has forgotten he does?

Are you blatantly ignorant or are you trying to score points with the Trayvon supporters?

How is she ignorant? She is telling the truth!

Zimmerman apparently forget about the gun he was carrying that Trayvon somehow did know was there!

Illogical captain, I think you will agree.

Zimmerman is going to walk.

[Cynical Ninja]

Zimmerman is going to walk.

If he does prepare yourself for the return of that good old American tradition - the race riot!

[ZEROSPHERES]

Jail may be the safest place for Z. Let's put him there for his own protection and to guard against civil unrest.

[HairOfTheDog]

Thinking he's lost him Z is now returning to his truck. This is where T jumps him, knocking him to the ground.

I've said it before in this thread. If you're going to bumrush somebody, make sure they're unarmed, or take their weapon from them.

I'm not sure why you keep stating that George was bumrushed or jumped by Trayvon, MS?

In so doing, you are at once saying that George is lying while also saying that he's telling the truth. Hard to follow.

George says that he and Trayvon were standing up and conversing before the first punch was thrown. He was face to face with Trayvon, to whom he'd chosen not to identify himself nor his NW status, when George says that Trayvon punched him in the nose as George reached for his cell phone. George says he fell to the ground at that point.

That's George's version of events, which is inconsistent with your version of George's version of events.

Again, here's George's own version of events:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/...cript.html
-------------------------------------------------------------

Another point of confusion for me: the statement that George was beaten almost unconscious keeps being posted as fact.

George's actions and responses immediately after the shooting indicate no sign of confusion, short term memory loss, physical or mental impairment. In his written statement that night, he said his head felt like it was going to explode when it was being pounded against the sidewalk. That's where it stops. The EMS report from the scene shows nothing to indicate that there was a concussion, abnormal vitals, irregular breathing, or any sign of internal injuries. Tenderness, bleeding and abrasions to the back of the head and an injured nose is all that was noted by the Emergency Medical personnel who evaluated Zimmerman that night.

If the "beaten almost unconscious" statement is supported by medical records, appreciated if someone could post them. I'm missing that piece. TIA.

Here's the EMS Report that I've seen from that night:
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images...report.pdf

[username]

There is no IF to Zimmerman being a big fat liar. George says that after the broke my nose punch (blood) Trayvon was smothering him with one hand on his mouth and the other pinching his nose.
Trayvon only let go to slide his hand down Zimm's side to go for the gun.

Hello? Where is the blood smear down George's side? Trayvon should have had a lot of George's blood on his hands. But, none of George's blood was found anywhere on Trayvon except for one thumb size print down on the bottom of the inside sweatshirt that Trayvon had on.

Maybe that is where Zimmerman grabbed onto the kid to keep him from getting away? Just before the shot.

Of course, George's brother says that the reason there was no blood on Trayvon was because George swallowed. And Robert Jr knows all about swallowing.

I can't see how one could possibly beat someone to the point where they're in fear for their life and not have a bit of blood on your hands/person besides a thumb print. Crazy.

[username]

HotD rocks as the crime forum moderator.

I'd be all confuzzled if she didn't keep bringing in the facts.

[sally]

I'm not sure why you keep stating that George was bumrushed or jumped by Trayvon, MS?

In so doing, you are at once saying that George is lying while also saying that he's telling the truth. Hard to follow.

MS pulls this nonsense out of his ass because he has it embedded in his pea brain that Trayvon was a thug that was up to no good anyway and Z was just doing his duty at a safe distance.

[Midwest Spy]

I'm not sure why you keep stating that George was bumrushed or jumped by Trayvon, MS?

In so doing, you are at once saying that George is lying while also saying that he's telling the truth. Hard to follow.

MS pulls this nonsense out of his ass because he has it embedded in his pea brain that Trayvon was a thug that was up to no good anyway and Z was just doing his duty at a safe distance.

If I didn't keep pointing this shit out, it would be a boreass festival of Zimmerman haters in here.

Post #6, btw.

[Cynical Ninja]

Does it honestly surprise you that so many people here see zimmerman in a negative light after what he's done?

Whatever the hums and the hars and the do you mind if donts of this case the fact is he shot and killed an innocent teenager out shopping for candy.

What do you want us to do? Give him a round of applause?

[HairOfTheDog]

If I didn't keep pulling this shit out of my ass, I wouldn't be such a boreass filleted by the Zimmerman haters in here.

^ Edited for accuracy.

It's approximately your Post #60 reflecting the same point of ignorance, btw.

Knucklehead.

[Midwest Spy]

If I didn't keep pulling this shit out of my ass, I wouldn't be such a boreass filleted by the Zimmerman haters in here.

^ Edited for accuracy.

It's approximately your Post #60 reflecting the same point of ignorance, btw.

Knucklehead.

It's all fine and dandy, HotD, but I'm on the side with Bone, Six and F.U., and I'm pretty sure they concur that fat Zim is going to walk.

I'm not in love with Zim, but with just his version of things to go by, a jury is most likely going to acquit.

BTW, you're welcome to spank my ass anytime and I'd love to return the favor.

[HairOfTheDog]

It's all fine and dandy, HotD, but I'm on the side with Bone, Six and F.U., and I'm pretty sure they concur that fat Zim is going to walk.

I'm not in love with Zim, but with just his version of things to go by, a jury is most likely going to acquit.

BTW, you're welcome to spank my ass anytime and I'd love to return the favor.

I didn't mention anything about what side you're on: Zimmerman's, Trayvon's, undecided - none of them are boreass to me.

If you don't really believe Zimmerman, it's okay to come out of the closet with it and just say so.

If that's not the case, just pointing out to you that your current theory (which you've posted many times) requires Zimmerman to be a liar and therefore conflicts with your side's story, Mr. Rockford.

ETA: I'm honestly not clear from your posts whether it's George's version of events that you believe will get him acquitted, or your contradictory version of events?

[sally]

I don't read the crime forum much, but if MS, Six and JBone post their retarded comments in all the other threads too, I could see where I might become so annoyed that my spleen would burst.

[Cheyne]

The defense crap with trying to get the cell pics in reminds me of the bad old days with rape trials. The victim would have her entire life dissected, including the clothes she was wearing, her hairstyle, where she was walking and the number of men she had had consensual sexual relations with, ad nauseam. Those pics have no bearing on this case.

Are there any other charges besides Murder 2? Does the jury have the option to convict for Manslaughter?

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Thats the problem with SYG as its written, it does not go far enough to limit the scope and the authors apparently did not anticipate the law being used in this kind of situation where the shooter is accused of being the aggressor

Six, do you foresee this law being revised at some point in the near future?

There is no telling. I think it needs to be worked over some, every time some asshole gets in a shooting thy claim SYG. Its bullshit most of the time. Wouldn't take pages and pages to get it better, problem is if you open the door a crack to a revision the anti gun nuts would try and ram in all kinds of stuff just like they did with the background checks

[SIXFOOTERsez]

I think thats based on the premise by the prosecution that T was an innocent law abiding boy scout that just happened to be black and wearing a hoodie, the defense alleges that in fact T was at least a wannabe thug like most young black kids here in the US.
Anything that is on Z's phone as it applies to the case happened after the incident.

No one is saying Trayvon was a boy scout but where is the evidence he was a wannabe thug?

As for saying that most young black kids in the US are wannabe thugs?

Oh dear, your mask slipped there a bit didn't it?

T's family and all tried to portray him as an innocent little kid, didn't want any recent photos released or in the paper, check out post 1910

Have you looked around? See how many black kids are running around with their pants hanging off their ass, are in jail, gang members, worship rappers? Yea, I believe most black kids wanna be a thug, pimp, dealer, playa whatthefuckever..If you don't thats fine, but keep an eye on your kids.
So no mask, I own it

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Kind of interesting that the previous judge said no to anything found on Zimmerman's phone. Zimmerman's cell phone info is exempt, not relevant.

So the defence can trawl through Trayvons phone looking for shit to fling at his character but the prosecution can't do the same with Zimmermans phone?

I think thats based on the premise by the prosecution that T was an innocent law abiding boy scout that just happened to be black and wearing a hoodie, the defense alleges that in fact T was at least a wannabe thug like most young black kids here in the US.
Anything that is on Z's phone as it applies to the case happened after the incident.

Sorry, Six, I don't understand your statement?

How would, for example only, past texts by Zimmerman expressing anger about strange teens in the neighborhood, pictures of him drunk and flipping the bird or caressing his gun, lamenting about his arrest for assaulting an officer after resisting, bitching about his ex's filing a restraining order against him for violence...be less relevant for the prosecution to challenge George's image than past text records are for the defense in challenging Trayvon's?

I can't see any reason why one would be considered more relevant than the other. The judge will likely not allow Trayvon's past cell records to be used, just like the previous judge didn't allow George's.

We'll likely find out on Tuesday.

Could be your right. Doesn't seem right that one is in and the other is out