MURDERED: 8 yr old Leila Fowler - 12 yr old brother charged

[Adub]

Juvenile's do not post bond. Not that I have ever heard. They are either released to the parent, or remain locked -up. No money involved.


Actually, he could be released to other relatives, also. Like grandparents, aunt, uncle. Not that it is going to happen.

[Older Than Dirt]

No to grandparents ! Seems like they are fair game !

[Adub]

No to grandparents ! Seems like they are fair game !

Have a heart, OTD. The kid may be innocent. Just hide the knives, and hatchets, and other cutting tools. And make sure there is always someone watching your back.

[lady love]

I'm afraid that she didn't die quickly either. A couple of media reports noted that she was stabbed 21 times; haven't seen that confirmed by LE/ME though. Also, still don't know if she was deceased for some period by the time she was officially pronounced dead at the hospital, or if she actually was alive when she first arrived there (she was pronounced only a few minutes after arrival).
[/quote]

I had read a couple places (I am trying to find the articles) that she died about 6 or 8 minutes after arriving at the hospital. There is no clear answer to when. Most media reports state that she was found dead and a couple had said that she died at the hospital. Just like some reports just say stabbed multiple times and I have seen where they say 21 times. I believe I even heard it said on one of the candle light vigil videos on youtube that it was stated as 21 times. I wish the media could stick to one story and all the facts instead of trying to see who can dramatize it the most.

I fear she was alive thru several of the stabbings. I do hope that she went unconscious soon though. I hope that when Crystal Walters said in the 911 call that Leila was freaking out that it wasn't because she was still conscious and screaming and that it was just an assumption because she did not know that she had been hurt.

[HairOfTheDog]

Suspect's second appearance is coming up in a couple of hours.

As noted upthread, he's expected to plead "not guilty".

This release today suggests that his attorneys might also file a motion to dismiss charges.

Snip:
"I don't think there are many circumstances where it is appropriate to put a 12-year-old on trial where there is a lot at stake," Reichel (suspect's attorney) said. "You have to agree with me that we wouldn't want to try a 6-year-old. We wouldn't want to try an 8-year-old. At what point do we draw that line? We only try individuals who are competent enough to actively participate and understand what's going on, and, in all honesty, I don't think many 12-year-olds have that maturity."

Myers ( law professor at University of the Pacific's McGeorge School of Law) said the question defense attorneys are raising could be a major point of contention in the case, noting, for instance, that some children might not comprehend the choice they're making when asked if they wish to waive their Miranda rights.

"Kids who are very young may not understand the nature of the rights they're giving up," he said. "In fact, there's some pretty good empirical literature, done by psychologists, that says kids under 12 almost never understand what Miranda means. Even kids of normal intelligence are just too immature."

According to the Department of Corrections, there were 754 youth offenders in California's juvenile justice facilities and camps as of Dec. 31, none under the age of 14. Most juvenile cases are settled out of court by defense lawyers, the district attorney and a probation officer, and most juvenile hearings are closed to the public, but this case will bear a stronger resemblance to criminal court proceedings, Myers said.

"In the vast majority of juvenile cases where there is no adjudicatory hearing, it's a pretty informal exchange, but here it will be quite formal," Myers said. "The lawyers will be behaving like lawyers, making objections and so forth. It's going to look almost exactly like a criminal trial except there's no jury and the defendant is little."

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a.../305290325

[LytoMe]

Suspect's second appearance is coming up in a couple of hours.

As noted upthread, he's expected to plead "not guilty".

This release today suggests that his attorneys might also file a motion to dismiss charges.

Snip:
"I don't think there are many circumstances where it is appropriate to put a 12-year-old on trial where there is a lot at stake," Reichel (suspect's attorney) said. "You have to agree with me that we wouldn't want to try a 6-year-old. We wouldn't want to try an 8-year-old. At what point do we draw that line? We only try individuals who are competent enough to actively participate and understand what's going on, and, in all honesty, I don't think many 12-year-olds have that maturity."

Myers ( law professor at University of the Pacific's McGeorge School of Law) said the question defense attorneys are raising could be a major point of contention in the case, noting, for instance, that some children might not comprehend the choice they're making when asked if they wish to waive their Miranda rights.

"Kids who are very young may not understand the nature of the rights they're giving up," he said. "In fact, there's some pretty good empirical literature, done by psychologists, that says kids under 12 almost never understand what Miranda means. Even kids of normal intelligence are just too immature."

According to the Department of Corrections, there were 754 youth offenders in California's juvenile justice facilities and camps as of Dec. 31, none under the age of 14. Most juvenile cases are settled out of court by defense lawyers, the district attorney and a probation officer, and most juvenile hearings are closed to the public, but this case will bear a stronger resemblance to criminal court proceedings, Myers said.

"In the vast majority of juvenile cases where there is no adjudicatory hearing, it's a pretty informal exchange, but here it will be quite formal," Myers said. "The lawyers will be behaving like lawyers, making objections and so forth. It's going to look almost exactly like a criminal trial except there's no jury and the defendant is little."

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a.../305290325

WOW, if I am reading this correctly...and YES I am reading in between the lines. I would say he confessed at some point, and they are trying to fight the Miranda. And they are saying he is to young to put on trial. Regardless if he did it or not.

I AM SHOCKED, and yes that is what I got from this statement.

[Duchess]

Can they really dismiss murder charges because of his age?

[Adub]

Can they really dismiss murder charges because of his age?

For lack of evidence. Not because of his age.

[username]

I have to say, as heinous as this case appears (without knowing exactly how it went down and the boy/family history), I don't think a 12 year old should be tried as an adult; especially if he doesn't have any prior record. I just read a bit about the juvenile justice system in California. Apparently at some point they typically hold a fitness hearing. If he's found "unfit" for the juvenile system, he can be bumped up to adult court. If he "fits" in the juvenile system, he'll be tried there I guess.

Here's a link to the factors that they would be considering in a fitness hearing:

http://www.courts.ca.gov/cms/rules/index...=rule5_770

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Man, I don't know. One hand it seems unfair to try a 12 yr old but then again, he did brutally murder his sister in a most heinous manner. How the hell do you rehab one like that? Should we support him with 3 squares and a roof for the rest of his life?
Would YOU want him next door when he is supposedly "Cured"?
Ugly as it is it may be time to bury this one out behind the barn.

[username]

I'd need to know more about the kid (and the crime) to make a decision about whether or not I thought he could be rehabilitated.

[HairOfTheDog]

I have to say, as heinous as this case appears (without knowing exactly how it went down and the boy/family history), I don't think a 12 year old should be tried as an adult; especially if he doesn't have any prior record. I just read a bit about the juvenile justice system in California. Apparently at some point they typically hold a fitness hearing. If he's found "unfit" for the juvenile system, he can be bumped up to adult court. If he "fits" in the juvenile system, he'll be tried there I guess.

Here's a link to the factors that they would be considering in a fitness hearing:

http://www.courts.ca.gov/cms/rules/index...=rule5_770

Thanks for posting the fitness criteria, user.

I'm confused here. If the child's determined "unfit" for juvenile court, he can be turned over to another type of facility or released. It's up to the court/judge. That's standard/clear.

However, AFAIK since this child is under 14 years of age, being bumped up to adult court is not an option in California, under any circumstances.

Instead, considering the severity of the crime allegedly committed by this child, his juvenile proceedings are being handled more like standard criminal trials before the judge than a lot of the less formal juvenile proceedings for lesser offenses.

This is to the best of my understanding.

[Duchess]

I hate that some people seem to be fucked up beyond repair because then that opens the door to throwing away people. That bothers me.

Are they a product of their environment? Does the blame for their fuckedupness fall on their parents? Are their parents even more screwed up and they are demon spawn? I don't want to have to think about this stuff and I'm often content to stick my head in the sand because it doesn't affect my life.

I'm over thinking it.

[HairOfTheDog]

Today's Hearing - Results:

Isaiah Fowler denied a second degree murder charge and special allegation at a continued arraignment at the Calaveras County Superior Court Wednesday.

Fowler, 12, is accused of inflicting multiple stab wounds on his 8-year-old sister Leila April 27 that led to her death.

He was calm during the short hearing and appeared to be in good spirits.

Judge John E. Martin accepted the denial (this is the equivalent of "not guilty" for juveniles) and remanded the boy back to a juvenile detention facility in El Dorado County, where he has been held since his arrest.

Martin set the next court hearing for 1:15 p.m., Wednesday, July 31.

Following the hearing, Fowler's attorneys held a press conference in which they maintained their client's innocence and questioned whether he was fit to stand trial, due to his age.

For the full story, pick up a copy of Friday's print edition of the Calaveras Enterprise.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My take:
The attorneys are likely looking for means to have the charges dismissed on the grounds of unfitness because, though they're also reportedly claiming his innocence, they contend that he's too young to stand trial and participate in his own defense.

The attorneys didn't motion for the boy to be released to his family today (at least it wasn't reported) and didn't object to him remaining in the juvenile detention facility for now (again, at least that's not mentioned in this early report).

Hopefully, more reports and the lawyers' press conference content will be available soon.

[username]

I have to say, as heinous as this case appears (without knowing exactly how it went down and the boy/family history), I don't think a 12 year old should be tried as an adult; especially if he doesn't have any prior record. I just read a bit about the juvenile justice system in California. Apparently at some point they typically hold a fitness hearing. If he's found "unfit" for the juvenile system, he can be bumped up to adult court. If he "fits" in the juvenile system, he'll be tried there I guess.

Here's a link to the factors that they would be considering in a fitness hearing:

http://www.courts.ca.gov/cms/rules/index...=rule5_770

Thanks for posting the fitness criteria, user.

I'm confused here. If the child's determined "unfit" for juvenile court, he can be turned over to another type of facility or released. It's up to the court/judge. That's standard/clear.

However, AFAIK since this child is under 14 years of age, being bumped up to adult court is not an option in California, under any circumstances.

Instead, considering the severity of the crime allegedly committed by this child, his juvenile proceedings are being handled more like standard criminal trials before the judge than a lot of the less formal juvenile proceedings for lesser offenses.

This is to the best of my understanding.

Makes sense. That criteria repeatedly uses the age of 16 but IDK. It definitely doesn't sound like he could/would be tried as an adult.

I hope though that his attorneys aren't successful in their efforts to have the charges dismissed!! He may be a kid but he needs to pay.

Burns me when it's reported that a defendant appears in good spirits in court.

[Adub]

I have to say, as heinous as this case appears (without knowing exactly how it went down and the boy/family history), I don't think a 12 year old should be tried as an adult; especially if he doesn't have any prior record. I just read a bit about the juvenile justice system in California. Apparently at some point they typically hold a fitness hearing. If he's found "unfit" for the juvenile system, he can be bumped up to adult court. If he "fits" in the juvenile system, he'll be tried there I guess.

Here's a link to the factors that they would be considering in a fitness hearing:

http://www.courts.ca.gov/cms/rules/index...=rule5_770

I've known 15 and 16 year old gangbangers that went straight to adult court. But, 14 is the magic age. Use a gun and your done in California. But this case is unique.

[HairOfTheDog]

The local Fox40 station reports that Isaiah Fowler's attorneys made a statement to the effect that they still have over 1,000 hours of police work to look over.

Also reported:
"Isaiah remains in custody. His attorneys did not petition to get him out of custody at this time, as his home situation is in question. Isaiah’s family was in the process of moving when the incident took place."

Wasn't aware that the family was in the process of moving when Leila was killed.

I didn't think they'd lived there very long?

If it's true and that's really why the lawyers didn't petition for release, wonder why they were moving and how the children felt about relocating.

Maybe totally irrelevant; just curious.

[Cheyne]

If the judge decides that Isaiah can't be tried due to his age (and inability to participate in his own defense) what happens then? Does he just walk out of court a free person and go back to living with his family as if nothing happened?

[HairOfTheDog]

If the judge decides that Isaiah can't be tried due to his age (and inability to participate in his own defense) what happens then? Does he just walk out of court a free person and go back to living with his family as if nothing happened?

I don't think the defense attorneys stand a chance of getting this dismissed as long as the state's arrest warrant and charges are legally valid. But, they'll try, as is common in any criminal case. Even if they know they have no chance, making the statement that Isaiah's too young to understand is defense-building for whatever comes next.

The fact that Isaiah is the youngest to be charged with this crime might also give the defense attorneys hope that there's an open door for dismissal. Nothing with which to compare his capacity in the California juvenile system, to the best of my knowledge.

IF somehow the attorneys managed to get Isaiah released on the grounds that he's too young to understand the charges and aid in his defense, I think there would be a lot of requirements placed upon whomever he was released to, along with probation visits, etc... He wouldn't just walk out free to live his life as before, IMO.

Adub has more insight into the California juvenile system than do I, maybe she'll weigh in.

[Adub]

10 year-old charged with murder last year in San Diego county. He is still moving through the system.


Murder charges filed against 10-year-old boy accused in stabbing death
Posted: Jan 18, 2012 4:52 PM PST

EL CAJON, Calif. (AP) — A child was charged with murder and felony assault in the fatal stabbing of a 12-year-old boy, authorities said Wednesday.

San Diego County district attorney's office spokesman Steve Walker declined to say if the defendant was the victim's 10-year-old neighbor who was taken into custody shortly after the stabbing. The neighbor is the only person who has been identified by homicide investigators as a suspect.

A detention hearing was scheduled for Thursday in juvenile court.

The 12-year-old died Monday, a little more than an hour after he was stabbed in the 10-year-old's driveway in a quiet, kid-friendly neighborhood in El Cajon, east of San Diego.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/16550016/10-ye...old-friend