MURDERED: 8 yr old Leila Fowler - 12 yr old brother charged

[LytoMe]

Usually when a minor, under the age of 13, is under the responsibility of the adult in their lives. This child did an evil thing, horrible to imagine.

But WHY, there is a reason. I DOUBT this kid got up in the morning and said "hell I am going to kill my sister today".

To every action, there is a reason!

[Adub]

Why does the juvenile justice system use the word rehabilitation? What is the juvenile expected to rehabilitate from? Is it as simple as rehabilitation of criminal behavior? Or does it go a bit deeper? As to why?

Believe me, the probation officers that work these cases, have hearts. And they play a Huge part in what becomes of these lost kids. They are not blind. They are trained. And dedicated.

In other words, they know a little shit when they see 'em.

[lady love]

lady,

That little pos, as you call him is a juvenile. Even though he will be held to answer to charges filed, his background, his upbringing, will come into play. It is very rare for a 12 year old to murder, much less their little sister. If it comes down to emotional issues, then the courts will look toward the family. And it seems the only consistent family that he has had is his dad.

And his dad may have emotional issues of his own, considering his inability to maintain a healthy relationship with women. Lots to look at here. I'm still thinking that dad may just be a misogynist.
Nasty bunch.

I don't care if he is 12 or 112 years old. Murder is murder and it is not all that rare that 12 year old kill. There are a lot of kids out there that have killed siblings or parents or classmates. Age is no excuse. Killers should all be treated the same no matter what their age is. Why should a 12 year old who savagely murders his sister be treated any different then a 50 year old man who savagely murders his sister or anyone else. Oh hell lets just blame her getting killed on Leila. Then the boy can go back to being a normal happy juvenile.

No one seems to want to hold the boy accountable for his actions just because he is 12 which is nothing but B.S. People just want to make excuses for him. "oh he had a bad family life" or "his family did this or that" They just want to make excuses because they are all scared of what the public will do if they convict and give a 12 year old life in prison. If that's the case then they need to take a persons age into consideration for everyone who commits murder.

How does anyone know the dad has an inability to maintain a healthy relationship with women. Maybe its the women he has been with that are failures at maintaining a relationship. Got to be some reason why if people think he is that bad that he has custody of the children instead of the mothers.

[lady love]

Usually when a minor, under the age of 13, is under the responsibility of the adult in their lives. This child did an evil thing, horrible to imagine.

But WHY, there is a reason. I DOUBT this kid got up in the morning and said "hell I am going to kill my sister today".

To every action, there is a reason!

Maybe he did get up in the morning and decided "hey I am going to be alone with Leila so I am going to kill her" Again why are special considerations made for a minor? Maybe that 42 year old man that killed someone didn't wake up and say "hell I am going to kill a man at a bar today" But now he has to worry about sitting the rest of his life in prison while Isaiah gets special treatment because hes only 12.

If the courts want to treat murders committed by children differently just because of their age then they need to do that will all murderers. a 20 year old who commits murder should get a more lenient punishment then a 30 year old who committed murder. If Isaiah was 18 or 19 or 20 everyone would be yelling "lock him up for life" for doing such a thing. But because he is 12 people yell "hey be nice, he is only 12 he didn't know what he was doing"

[lady love]

This whole thing reminds me of O.J. Simpson.

Justin Simpson did not murder his little sister. I'm baffled as to why you would compare Isaiah Fowler to O.J.

Granted, O.J. has many characteristics of a misogynist, but how do they apply to Isaiah? A family trait maybe? Carried down thru the male lineage? Or, social environment?

However, Justin seems to be doing okay. The last I looked.

I wasn't comparing O.J. to Isaiah.

I was saying It reminded me of O.J. because he stabbed his ex wife and her boyfriend to death with a knife and because he was famous no one wanted him convicted and saying there was no evidence that he did it. Now for Isaiah no one wants him to get put away because he is only 12 and people saying there is no evidence that he did it and everyone wants to make up excuses as to why he may have done it without actually blaming him for his actions.

[HairOfTheDog]

I wasn't comparing O.J. to Isaiah.

I was saying It reminded me of O.J. because he stabbed his ex wife and her boyfriend to death with a knife and because he was famous no one wanted him convicted and saying there was no evidence that he did it. Now for Isaiah no one wants him to get put away because he is only 12 and people saying there is no evidence that he did it and everyone wants to make up excuses as to why he may have done it without actually blaming him for his actions.

I didn't get the OJ comparison before either, lady love. I don't think the two cases are analogous, but thank you for clarifying.

As for Isaiah, haven't personally seen anyone arguing against him being locked up til he's 23, except his defense attorneys, which is their job. Even the family has gone silent now. Doesn't look like they're pushing the attorneys to get him released to home asap.

I don't think Isaiah Fowler is going anywhere. But, I would still like to understand what went down that day and, to the extent possible, what made a 12 year old do such a thing to his baby sister.

Wanting to understand and wishing a murderer set free are not one and the same.

[Duchess]

I think there is something very wrong with that boy, instead of pulling the wings off flies & torturing neighborhood animals he killed his sister. He's 12 yrs. old, old enough to know the difference between right & wrong and old enough to pay the consequences for his actions. He needs extensive therapy and he needs to be in a place where he can't hurt anyone ever again. I'm not sure he has any redeemable qualities & I'd be willing to bet that there were warning signs in regards to this kid.

[username]

It's just a fact that a 12 y/o's brain is not fully developed. If you're going to treat a 12 y/o as an adult, you might as well let them vote, buy cigarettes etc. I want the kid to pay for his actions but without knowing more, I don't think society should generally give up on 12 y/o's.

[lady love]

Wanting to understand and wishing a murderer set free are not one and the same.
[/quote]

Sorry I wasn't trying to say here that people wanted him set free. I keep seeing on other sites where people are defending this boy with a passion and saying that just because he is 12 he didn't know what he was doing and they shouldn't be to hard on him.

[lady love]

It's just a fact that a 12 y/o's brain is not fully developed. If you're going to treat a 12 y/o as an adult, you might as well let them vote, buy cigarettes etc. I want the kid to pay for his actions but without knowing more, I don't think society should generally give up on 12 y/o's.

No they don't need to do that other stuff like voting or buying cigarettes. Killing someone is far more different then buying cigarettes. Who says 12 year olds brains are not fully developed? Do they know right from wrong? Do they know its wrong to kill someone? Yes they do. That has nothing to do with being fully developed.

I have heard so many times kids saying "if I did something I would only get punished for a few years then be free" Kids today don't get punished enough for the things they do. If he is released by the age of 23 what kind of example are they sending to other kids? Hey do what you want because sense you are a kid you wont get very much punishment.

Again that is like saying a 19 or 20 year old should not be punished for his crimes as severely as a 30 or 40 year old because they haven't been around as long and don't know as much the older people. Maybe their brains are not fully developed yet either. Do we make allowance for that?

Isaiah's brains were developed enough for him to know how to kill his sister and how to hide evidence and keep police searching for a made up person for 2 weeks.

I don't care what his home life is or was like. It is no excuse to brutally murder someone. I don't care if his father couldn't hold a job or keep a relationship with women or if he was sponging off his fiancé, that is still no excuse for him to kill anyone.

If a kid wants to commit an adult crime then he should pay the adult price. No excuses or special treatment. I am not saying throw him in adult prison but he should serve time in prison when he does become an adult.

If an adult man had broken into the Fowler home and murdered the little girl what do you think would have happened to him when he was convicted? I bet it wouldn't be as lenient as Isaiah would get would it? So how is that any different. The adult knows its wrong to kill another person and so does the 12 year old Isaiah.

[Cheyne]

The first US separate juvenile court system was founded in Cook Co. Illinois in 1899. Before that time children under the age of 7 were considered "infants" that could not understand criminal actions and could therefor not commit a crime, and children 14 and over that were considered adults and tried as such. The grey area was between the ages of 7 and 14, much as it is today.

The fact that Isaiah stabbed his sister Leila 21 times leads me to believe he knew what he was doing and understood the consequences of his actions at least as it pertained to Leila. If he was experimenting because of a video or movie he saw, I would think that he would have stopped when Leila screamed or blood started coming from her wounds. Isaiah was either in a murderous rage (couldn't stop stabbing) or is a sociopath and wouldn't stop.

He may not have understood that he could be convicted of murder and sent to a juvenile facility until he was 23. This shouldn't matter in his defense. The fact that the defendant doesn't know the actual punishment for the crime is not defensible under the law.

[username]

Don't get me wrong. I think he should absolutely be locked up for the next 11+ years. I disagree though that he should receive the same sentence as an adult.

The argument that a 30 y/o should get a harsher sentence than a 20 year old doesn't fly with me. At that age, they're both adults.

I agree that 12 y/o's can and should know the difference between right and wrong. So can a 5 y/o but they don't always do what's right.

The kid appears to be vicious and fucked up in the head but I don't think we, as a society, should give up on 12 year olds.

[Adub]

The first US separate juvenile court system was founded in Cook Co. Illinois in 1899. Before that time children under the age of 7 were considered "infants" that could not understand criminal actions and could therefor not commit a crime, and children 14 and over that were considered adults and tried as such. The grey area was between the ages of 7 and 14, much as it is today.

The fact that Isaiah stabbed his sister Leila 21 times leads me to believe he knew what he was doing and understood the consequences of his actions at least as it pertained to Leila. If he was experimenting because of a video or movie he saw, I would think that he would have stopped when Leila screamed or blood started coming from her wounds. Isaiah was either in a murderous rage (couldn't stop stabbing) or is a sociopath and wouldn't stop.

He may not have understood that he could be convicted of murder and sent to a juvenile facility until he was 23. This shouldn't matter in his defense. The fact that the defendant doesn't know the actual punishment for the crime is not defensible under the law.

It's the "stop" part of the brain that hasn't developed. Impulsiveness. Lack of self-control.

[lady love]

Don't get me wrong. I think he should absolutely be locked up for the next 11+ years. I disagree though that he should receive the same sentence as an adult.

The argument that a 30 y/o should get a harsher sentence than a 20 year old doesn't fly with me. At that age, they're both adults.

I agree that 12 y/o's can and should know the difference between right and wrong. So can a 5 y/o but they don't always do what's right.

The kid appears to be vicious and fucked up in the head but I don't think we, as a society, should give up on 12 year olds.

We are not talking about adults. We were talking about a 12 year olds brain not being fully developed. A 20 year old doesn't know half of what a 30 year old would know just like a 12 year old wouldn't know what a 20 or 30 year old know. To say because they are adults is not right.

Again I ask. What if a 20 year old had broke into the house and killed the little girl. He would probably get life in prison simply because he is an adult? However a 12 year old kills the little girl and he simply gets a slap on the wrist and that's about all that it will amount to.

I agree that society should not give up on 12 year olds or any child. But there has to be a line drawn. It should be based on the severity of the what the child has done and murdering someone is pretty damn severe and when it come taking another humans life there should be no leniency for adults or kids.

Now if her death had been an accident or lets say a prank gone wrong then that would be a completely different thing all together. But to savagely stab someone 21 times is completely inexcusable no matter what the persons age is and should not receive special treatment just because they are 12.

What kind of example are we sending if he just gets to sit in juvenile detention for 11 years? How bad is that going to be? Its not going to be anything like prison. What if other kids read about him and figure hey he will be free to live his life when hes 23 and have a clean record when he gets out so that's not that bad so I can get off easy if I kill that person who called me that name yesterday.

All society is pretty much doing is saying that no matter what you do and as long as your a kid we will not hold you very responsible for what you did because you didn't know to much about what you were doing.

So where do we draw the line on what juveniles can get away with and stop trying to make excuses for them?

[username]

I'm okay with following the law and drawing the line at 14 in most cases. I could ask you the question in reverse...would you put a 10 y/o away for life? An 8 y/o?

Except for this attack, I don't know much about this kid. Did he skin kittens? Has he always shown signs of a budding sociopath? I'll be interested in finding out more of the history as well as the family dynamics.

Here's one article about brain development that states (and I saw others) that full development doesn't occur until we're 25. Would I suggest that a 20 y/o only get a "slap"? No. They're much closer to full development than a 12 y/o.

http://www.academic.marist.edu/mwwatch/f...ience1.htm

[sally]

Don't get me wrong. I think he should absolutely be locked up for the next 11+ years. I disagree though that he should receive the same sentence as an adult.

The argument that a 30 y/o should get a harsher sentence than a 20 year old doesn't fly with me. At that age, they're both adults.

I agree that 12 y/o's can and should know the difference between right and wrong. So can a 5 y/o but they don't always do what's right.

The kid appears to be vicious and fucked up in the head but I don't think we, as a society, should give up on 12 year olds.

I would agree, but this is an extreme case. He stabbed her 21 times and then made up an elaborate story to get away with it. I remember being 12 and had he been fighting with his sister and stabbed her once on impulse not fully grasping the consequences I could see, but 21 times? I don't know if that kid can ever be rehabilitated.

[username]

Yeah. He may well be an evil bastard that can't be rehabilitated but generally speaking, I wouldn't throw a 12 y/o away for life and I don't think you can write or change laws based on extreme cases like this.

[lady love]

Well so I guess that's where that old saying "they let that kid get away with murder" really came from.

Daggummit that makes me mad. Now I am sitting here thinking about when I was 12 or 13 and all the people that used to piss me off. I could of killed them and been living the sweet life when I turned 23, as long as I wasn't 14 when I did it. Man I wish I could go back in time now.

What is the difference between a 12 or 14 year old? nothing except 2 years. So by rights a 14 year old should be allowed to get away with murder to. So now I think until they reach the age of 18 and become a legal adult then they shouldn't be held responsible for their actions or is an 18 year olds brain not developed enough?

I believe there was an article that said he had tortured cats, I am trying to find that article. Or is it only important if it was kittens and not adult cats?

We are not talking about stealing a pack of gum from the grocery store or taking a car for a joy ride. We are talking about murder, the most cruel act a person can commit against another person. Was it in self defense? No, well maybe it was. Maybe Leila was kicking the shit out of him and it was the only way for him to get her to stop.

As for the question about 10 or 8 year olds. I cannot say. I have never come across any murderers that age other then accidental as in getting hold of a parents loaded gun and thinking it was a toy. Again it should come to the severity and circumstances of the crime.

So if Isaiah does get convicted and when he is 23 and walking out of juvenile detention a free and clear man with no longer a record for murder he throws up his arms and yells "yes I am free, I got rid of the little bitch and pretty much got away with it" then maybe people would think hey he should of got punished more.

I don't care about brain development. All that should matter is that he had the mental capacity to commit such a savage murder. And yes he did have the mental capacity to know it was wrong and he had the mental capacity to know he could get in trouble for it and to make up a false intruder to try and cover up what he did. The fact that he wasn't smart enough to realize that he would be caught has nothing to do with brain development.

[lady love]

Yeah. He may well be an evil bastard that can't be rehabilitated but generally speaking, I wouldn't throw a 12 y/o away for life and I don't think you can write or change laws based on extreme cases like this.

Why cant they write or change laws based on extreme cases like this. Something needs to be done. For adult murderers they have what is it, first degree murder and second degree murder and I think but not sure even third degree murder along with premeditated or intentional or accidental and anything else they have.

Why cant they have these set up for the little kiddies who think they can go and kill someone.

[username]

Go for it. Leila's Law has a nice ring to it.