Egyptian pigeon says “coup coup!”

[Cynical Ninja]

The Egyptian military have ousted Islamist Muslim brotherhood president Mohammed Morsi today in what appears to be a full blown military coup.

The military gave him a warning they would move to end public disorder that has been raging in Egypt for the last few weeks. They said they would not tolerate disorder from “terrorists and radicals and fools” and gave him a deadline.

The deadline passed and the minister of defence and general of the Egyptian army went on state television to announce the military had taken secular control of the country and Morsi was ousted.

I support the generals secular stance but I'm not sure I want to go there on holiday this year anymore. Cairo is a city of 20 million people I don't want to be in that clusterfuck with my wife and kid.

[Donovan]

Probably better to stay out until they settle their shit. You got family there or just fondness for the place? I'd love to see it but my budget currently allows for trips around the block, not around the world.

[Cynical Ninja]

My wife is obsessed with the ancient Egyptians we got ancient Egyptian themed stuff all over the house and I like looking around all the ancient ruins as well. Our hotel is right in the middle of Cairo so I think I might have to cancel for now.

[crash]

You need to make friends with cladking. Just don't mention anything about ramps...

[Cynical Ninja]

I take it he doesn't think the ancient Egyptians built the pyramids using ramps?

I agree.

It was the ancient astronauts and their anti-gravity technology that built the pyramids.

[username]

It's a shame about your trip and the democratic FAIL in Egypt.

[Duchess]

It's a shame about your trip

It sure is. I'm disappointed there will be no Egypt pix for Mock.

[Cynical Ninja]

My question is if they have new elections and the majority of people vote for a Muslim Brotherhood candidate again then what?

Another coup until the military get the result THEY, and not the people, want?

[username]

My question is if they have new elections and the majority of people vote for a Muslim Brotherhood candidate again then what?

Another coup until the military get the result THEY, and not the people, want?

Word is they're rounding up some 200+ Muslim Brotherhood leaders. There's 200 less votes right there.

[Donovan]

On the plus side it's nice to see a middle eastern country sick to fucking death of islamist extreme rules People are starting to realize fundamentalism sucks no matter who your messiah of choice is...

[HairOfTheDog]

My question is if they have new elections and the majority of people vote for a Muslim Brotherhood candidate again then what?

Another coup until the military get the result THEY, and not the people, want?

I don't think a Muslim Brotherhood candidate would stand a chance. JMO.

The military backed the public in the overthrow of Morsi; as a result of mostly peaceful protests (not in any way to minimize the 14 fatalities) where millions of Egyptians took to the streets. This wasn't a civil war with two sizable groups fighting for power, as is the case in Syria. This was an overwhelming majority feeling that they'd given Morsi an opportunity to meet his democratic and reform commitments and having felt disappointed and betrayed by his undeniable allegiance to the Muslim Brotherhood over the people of Egypt.

Change through peaceful protest and freedom of expression/speech is a relatively new development for Egypt. It's encouraging, imo. It demonstrates the people's commitment to the democratic policies/processes for which they've pushed and voted. Unfortunately, Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood are trapped in their conflicting outdated (imo) ideology.

Who will rule Egypt next? It will be interesting to see and important in terms of the UK and US's Middle Eastern relations.

P.s. Glad this happened before your scheduled trip and not during it.

[username]

It's honestly rule by mob. Granted, it might have been peaceful but if they were truly committed to the democratic process, they should have followed their constitution to obtain his removal. They're struggling but they're newbies at it, so I'll cut them some slack.


And, while all this is going on, I understand there have been hundreds of sexual assaults against women engaged in the protesting. The police do very little to stop it.

[Cynical Ninja]

Morsi was the first democratically elected leader in years and had many supporters who are also protesting and they've got a point he was elected in the first democratic election in Egypt in years.

He won the election fair and square democratically the army decided his reign was over undemocratically.

[username]

Morsi was the first democratically elected leader in years and had many supporters who are also protesting and they've got a point he was elected in the first democratic election in Egypt in years.

He won the election fair and square democratically the army decided his reign was over undemocratically.

Yep.

[Cynical Ninja]

A year ago the Egyptian public voted for a Muslim Brotherhood candidate I really don't know if there has been a sea change of public opinion since then.

There were many pro Morsi protests during the recent disorder as well as anti Morsi protests. I really don't know if the military are speaking for the majority of Egyptians and I am always uncomfortable when the military get involved directly with politics. Some people think military intervention in this case is a good thing because they are ousting fundamentallist Muslims but I think if the majority of Egyptians want fundamentallist Muslims running their country that's what they should have because that's true democracy.

[HairOfTheDog]

Some people think military intervention in this case is a good thing because they are ousting fundamentallist Muslims but I think if the majority of Egyptians want fundamentallist Muslims running their country that's what they should have because that's true democracy.

I understand the points that you and username are making, and don't disagree with them. It would have been great had Morsi, as the elected leader, been given an opportunity to serve his term and then been voted out.

I also understand the other side. Having loosely followed Morsi's presidency since the overthrow of Mubarek, I think he made a lot of very serious mistakes in a very short time. He ignored those who spoke out against where they saw him to be headed. These voices of concern began early on when they saw that Morsi was making moves, starting shortly after having been elected and feeling secure that he was therefore "legally" protected, to enact policies that demonstrated a clear lack of understanding/commitment when it comes to building a democratic society (it's not all about the piece of paper). He lost me when he called for Holy War in Syria and started jailing voices of opposition.

The Islamic Brotherhood was the most well organized opposition political group when Mubarek was ousted. Hoping there is a movement for organized elections with a more diverse group of candidates in the wake of Morsi's fall. Morsi was the West's guy. I haven't had a chance to read about Obama's reaction, but I'm sure he's not happy.

Anyway, if the majority of the people of Egypt wanted an Islamic dictatorship, I don't think Mubarek and Morsi would be where they are now. It's a relief, to me, that the Egyptians are affecting change (whether I think they're off base or right on - it's their country) without massive blood baths and without the need for international intervention. It probably could have been done better were they already a well-established democratic society, it may have been premature, and there may be some negative consequences stemming from a military removal from office. IDK. But, they're in the midst of an ongoing peaceful revolution and it's rolling on.

Who's up next and how will that affect the US's Middle Eastern policies? That's where my real interest lies.

[HairOfTheDog]

Why aren't western leaders speaking out more about Morsi's overthrow?

They really shouldn't, so they aren't, in my opinion.

Egypt is so critical and strategic to Arab and Middle Eastern relations and stability. Instead of rushing to defend Morsi, who really wasn't in power long enough to warrant strong allegiance from western leaders and quickly jeopardized societal democratization during his short term, the heads of the United States, Germany and England are acknowledging his mistakes and focusing more on upcoming elections and future candidates.

According to some reports that I've read, Obama is hesitant to call the overthrow a "coup" because that would bring up a law requiring that the US stop financial aid to the Egyptian military (which is really the point of influence in the country for western leaders, at this time). Others contend that the word "coup" doesn't apply since the military backed the people after strongly urging Morsi to consider and compromise with voices of protest and he refused; and so the Egyptian revolution carries on without him. We all wanna change the world...

Egypt appears stable with an interim President now in place and the military having its usual strong influence in the running of the country. Though Morsi and the Islamic Brotherhood have supporters, their numbers are reportedly smaller than the Morsi opposition.


Last week: Egyptians take to the streets; for and against Morsi and the Islamic Brotherhood

Snip:
If the situation with Mubarak was complicated, the coup that ousted Morsi was even more so. Yes, Morsi, an Islamist and official of the Muslim Brotherhood, was the first Egyptian president elected in a free and open election.

But Morsi had increasingly acted undemocratically. Earlier this year, for instance, he proclaimed himself Egypt's ultimate power who couldn't be challenged by the judiciary. And he talked of supporting jihad in Syria.

The moral and strategic muddle of a coup that ousted a democratically elected leader who appeared to be moving in a decidedly anti-democratic direction may largely explain why senior congressional Republicans have been mostly silent about Obama's handling so far of the latest eruption of crisis in Egypt.


http://www.rferl.org/content/egypt-analy...36706.html
http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/...-his-power