US agency (NSA) “collecting phone records“

[Cynical Ninja]

George Bush & his administration knew about the attacks before they went down. They choose to disregard the information they had in their possession.

Maybe if they had the data on record of actual telephone conversations between the hijackers before the attack which the current NSA data collecting would have captured they wouldn't have disregarded the information. Having actual record of telephone conversations could have been the game changer is what I'm saying.

[HairOfTheDog]

The Press & Politics: Snowden - should he be given clemency?

Snowden asked the US government for clemency and to be viewed as a "whistle blower" back in November. He was denied and told to return to the US to stand trial for espionage.

It's been 7 months since he leaked to journalists classified information that he stole from the NSA regarding their surveillance programs.

Obama has reviewed the NSA program and been critical of some aspects of it - he's expected to announce details of an overhaul this month.

Today, The New York Times published an Op-Ed piece advocating clemency for Snowden and supporting a case for him to be viewed as a whistle blower whose actions, though punishable by law, have been of service to the country.

The NY Times is pushing for reduced charges and a plea that would allow Snowden to return to the US from Russia. The Guardian is also advocating to the public for clemency on Snowden's behalf.

Latest polls show that nearly 40% of the US public believes that clemency should be granted and over 50% think he should be prosecuted for espionage or treason.

Here's The New York Times piece:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/02/opinio...inion&_r=0


What do you think?

[Duchess]

I have mixed feelings about this. I hold the government more responsible for this bullshit than I do Snowden. It still blows my mind that the government would outsource such sensitive positions. Outsource. Jesus Christ.

[HairOfTheDog]

I think there are some good things that came about as a result of the leaks.

If a review of the NSA data collection reveals that it's too wide a net with little benefit, and improvements can be made in the process and policies, good deal. It's also good that the American public understands that their data is being screened, even though many will not approve. Transparency.

I personally don't have a problem with the meta data screening for terrorism prevention and understand the need. If such data were being used to seek probable cause warrants or prosecute non-terrorists for crimes, I'd have a major problem with it. Haven't seen or heard of anything to that effect happening (doesn't mean it hasn't, just haven't heard defense attorneys going ballistic over something like that, and I think they would).

Snowden bothers me. I do not see him as a patriotic whistle blower. He secured a job for the purpose of stealing classified information and illegally releasing it to the global public. His actions reflected poorly on the US and put us in some hot water with other world leaders. Is that a bad thing and do the ends justify the means? IDK. But, I haven't seen anything indicating that he tried to approach an ombudsman, governmental auditor, or any other source (anonymously or otherwise) to try to affect change internally before taking such drastic measures. I fear that his true motive was attention and being viewed as a rebellious savior or something like that. I don't trust his claims. I could be wrong about him; but that's my fear based on what I've seen and read of Snowden.

If my fear is legitimate, I don't mind that he can't come back to the US, let someone else deal with him and put trust in him.

If he does end up getting some kind of clemency, plea deal, or immunity, it won't anger me. But, I'd hope he wouldn't be hired in any confidential or classified capacity again.

[Cynical Ninja]

“He stole information from the NSA”

Yep, STOLE, he's a thief AND a traitor.

Does anyone think his asylum in Russia didn't come at a price? I wonder what price Russia would charge a US intelligence thief and whistleblower? Or maybe Putin let Snowden stay out of the goodness of his heart! We all know what a softy he is at heart.

The next time Putin meets Obama Putin is going to be thinking to himself “I know something you don't think I know!”

Snowden is proof one person can make a difference but in most cases its probably better if they didn't.

[HairOfTheDog]

OBAMA ANNOUNCES NEW NSA DATA COLLECTION PROTOCOLS


Snip:
President Barack Obama on Friday defended the the "vital role" that intelligence-gathering plays in the nation's security, as he nonetheless announced changes aimed at increasing transparency and protecting privacy and civil liberties.

The reforms that Obama announced will end the controversial National Security Agency telephone bulk collection program as it currently exists, officials said.

Intelligence analysts will now need court approval to go into phone records routinely stored by the NSA, a change resulting from concerns raised by classified leaks last year by former agency contractor Edward Snowden that revealed the government's collection of phone "metadata."

No evidence of abuse has been found involving surveillance programs, but changes are needed in response to legitimate privacy concerns that have been raised, Obama said.

The President remained critical of Snowden..."Our nation's defense depends in part on the fidelity of those entrusted with our nation's secrets," Obama said. "If any individual who objects to government policy can take it in their own hands to publicly disclose classified information, then we will never be able to keep our people safe, or conduct foreign policy."

He also said that the United States "is not spying on ordinary people who don't threaten our national security" and added that "unless there is a compelling national security purpose, we will not monitor the communications of heads of state and government of our close friends and allies."

NSA domestic and international phone and e-mail surveillance is considered some of the most widespread intelligence gathering performed by the U.S. government.

Federal courts are divided on NSA telephone data collection.

The top-secret the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, which oversees the legal aspects of surveillance, earlier this month reauthorized the program for another three months.

The program is covered under Section 215 of the Patriot Act initiated by George W. Bush after 9 / 11 and has been authorized 36 times over the past seven years.

Full story: http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/17/politics/o...?hpt=hp_t1

[Duchess]

I don't really have a problem with this as a whole but I do have an issue with who is doing it. By that I mean, the government outsources security related things and I don't like that at all.

[Maggot]

I find it very difficult to believe a word he says. How do you know he's not lying? His mouth is shut. He has lied way to much to start believing now.

[Duchess]

How do you know he's not lying?

I don't know that. My policy, straight across the board, is to not believe any of them.

[Duchess]

...except for Bill.

[HairOfTheDog]

I find it very difficult to believe a word he says. How do you know he's not lying? His mouth is shut. He has lied way to much to start believing now.

Now, the NSA Data Collection policy, as authorized by the Patriot Act, has Obama's stamp on it. He can't blame Bush or the NSA for what was initiated under a previous administration and carried out under his.

It's on the surface; he took ownership of it and he's got 2 full years left in the oval office. People are watching.

That's why I believe him on this, as far as the policy changes go. However, I too am generally skeptical of what's put forth to the public by politicians (Obama and others) and typically dig deeper for details beyond the spin when it's a matter that I consider important or interesting.

[Cynical Ninja]

I would like Obama to explain and define who and what an “ordinary person” is?

[HairOfTheDog]

I would like Obama to explain and define who and what an “ordinary person” is?

My understanding from his release is that "ordinary people" are defined as those who are not suspected of terrorism or treason or something of that nature.

With the new changes to the NSA protocols, none of the phone and electronic data collected and stored for citizens not already on the "terrorist watch list" can be accessed without probable cause and a court order.

So, next year, US Citizen Abdul Abdula bombs the Minneapolis 500. After-the-fact investigation reveals that he ordered a boat load of explosive materials over the internet and spoke frequently by cell phone with suspected terrorists in Sudan about the plot for six months prior. He's unknown to national security (or they've got a court order pending to search his communications). I feel certain a good portion of the public will be outraged that he hadn't hit US Intelligence radar in advance, or that Intelligence agents weren't able to act swiftly enough to stop him.

The price of increased personal privacy. Is it worth it? Seems the majority of people think it is - for now.

[username]

I honestly think it's the same program just couching it slightly differently. They said all along that they weren't monitoring "ordinary citizens"; there was tons of metadata and only if something suspicious came up would they pursue it further.

They're basically saying the same thing. We won't monitor ordinary citizens or our "friends" unless we think we need too.

[Cynical Ninja]

I feel sorry for the MI5 operative reading my texts and emails.

[HairOfTheDog]

I honestly think it's the same program just couching it slightly differently. They said all along that they weren't monitoring "ordinary citizens"; there was tons of metadata and only if something suspicious came up would they pursue it further.

They're basically saying the same thing. We won't monitor ordinary citizens or our "friends" unless we think we need too.

I think you're right about the process, user. The data collection and storage processes will be handled as they always have been under the Patriot Act

There is zero indication that such data was ever accessed by NSA or other governmental officials for purposes other than anti-terrorism activities.

The only significant difference is that now governmental and LE officials will be required to get a court order to access the records of previously assumed "ordinary people/citizens" if they believe said persons might be involved in terrorist-related activities.

[HairOfTheDog]

Snowden interview tonight

Edward Snowden sought to bolster his credentials during an interview with NBC "Nightly News" anchor Brian Williams.

The one-hour interview, Snowden's first with a U.S. television network, is scheduled to air at 10 p.m. ET on Wednesday.

Snowden interview excerpt:
"I was trained as a spy in sort of the traditional sense of the word -- in that I lived and worked undercover, overseas, pretending to work in a job that I'm not -- and even being assigned a name that was not mine," Snowden said.

"Now, the government might deny these things. They might frame it in certain ways, and say, oh, well, you know, he's a low-level analyst.

"But what they're trying to do is they're trying to use one position that I've had in a career, here or there, to distract from the totality of my experience, which is that I've worked for the Central Intelligence Agency, undercover, overseas.

"I've worked for the National Security Agency, undercover, overseas. And I've worked for the Defense Intelligence Agency as a lecturer at the Joint Counterintelligence Training Academy, where I developed sources and methods for keeping our information and people secure in the most hostile and dangerous environments around the world."

Snowden continued: "So when they say I'm a low-level systems administrator, that I don't know what I'm talking about, I'd say it's somewhat misleading."


US Secretary of State John Kerry's response:
Snowden should "man up" and return home to the United States, Secretary of State John Kerry says. on CBS' This Morning show, Kerry said he thinks Snowden shouldn't be afraid to face a trial in the U.S.

"He should man up and come back to the United States if he has a complaint about what's the matter with American surveillance, come back here and stand in our system of justice and make his case."

Kerry said that Snowden is "taking potshots at his country, violating the oath that he took," and that he has "damaged his country very significantly, in many, many ways."

"The bottom line is, this is a man who betrayed his country," Kerry said.

Source: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014...-interview

[Duchess]

I didn't get to watch that interview but I hope to get to it over the weekend. The Today Show briefly talked about it and I found it interesting that before the interview aired half the country thought he was a traitor with the other half feeling he did the right thing. By the time the interview finished airing on the West Coast the tide had turn and almost everyone who watched it viewed it as Snowden having done us a service by making us aware of what was going down.

[HairOfTheDog]

I watched the interview.

The interview didn't change my feelings about what Snowden did; I don't approve of his means and I do believe he compromised our country, though I think some good ultimately came from his actions.

I did think a little less of him after the interview. His responses, explanations and demeanor led me to more strongly suspect that his actions were motivated more by inflating himself than making a personal sacrifice for the perceived good of the country. That's just my opinion based on what I've seen and heard from Snowden himself.

I read that the public perception barely changed after the interview, nationwide:

Those from 18 to 34 support him more than oppose him (32% support vs. 20% oppose, with a whole lotta "don't knows").

But, across all age brackets, more oppose than support Snowden's actions (23% support vs. 38% oppose, again with a whole lotta "don't knows").

Source: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/more...em-n119476

I'm interested in seeing where Snowden's path leads from here and how his actions and motives are perceived 10 years from now.

[HairOfTheDog]

U.S. Phone and Data Collection Surveillance Now Restricted

In a significant scaling back of national security policy formed after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the Senate on Tuesday approved legislation curtailing the federal government’s sweeping surveillance of American phone records, and President Obama signed the measure hours later.

The passage of the bill — achieved over the fierce opposition of the Senate majority leader — will allow the government to restart surveillance operations, but with new restrictions.

The shift against the security state began with the revelation by Edward J. Snowden, a former National Security Agency contractor, about the bulk collection of phone records. The backlash was aided by the growth of interconnected communication networks run by companies that have felt manhandled by government prying.

Even with the congressional action, the government will continue to maintain robust surveillance power, an authority highlighted by Senator Rand Paul, Republican of Kentucky, whose opposition to the phone records program forced it to be shut down at 12:01 a.m. Monday. Mr. Paul and other critics of the legislation said the government’s reach into individuals’ lives remained too intrusive.

Full story: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/03/us/pol....html?_r=0