TOO FAR, OR NOT FAR ENOUGH? RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION IN THE MILITARY

[HairOfTheDog]

What do you think?


The Pentagon took steps on Wednesday to give individual troops greater latitude to wear turbans, head scarfs, yarmulkes and other religious clothing with their uniforms, but advocacy groups said the new policy fell short of what they were seeking.

The policy was mainly expected to affect Sikhs, Muslims, Jews and members of other groups that wear beards or articles of clothing as part of their religion. It also could affect Wiccans and others who may obtain tattoos or piercings for religious reasons.

Lieutenant Commander Nate Christensen, a Pentagon spokesman, said for the first time the Defense Department's policy encouraged acceptance in the military of beards, long hair and articles of clothing worn for religious reasons so long as they do not interfere with good order and discipline.

A service member who wants to wear a beard or article of clothing for religious reasons must seek permission, or an accommodation, from the military. The Pentagon previously made only a small number of accommodations to its uniform policy to enable Sikhs to wear turbans.

Advocacy groups expressed concern that the updated policy does little to protect Sikhs and others from the whims of their commanders.

"I'd have to see how it's carried out in practice," said Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations. "If it's subject to the whim of individual commanders that becomes problematic because that's what we've seen in the past - some are allowed, some are denied."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/23...f=religion

[Duchess]

I'm a little weirded out seeing a bearded man wearing a United States Army uniform with a turban on his head.

Make that a lot weirded out.

[Maggot]

So much for the uniform military code. All should be the same. We sure are the laughing stock of the world. WTF!

[HairOfTheDog]

So much for the uniform military code. All should be the same. We sure are the laughing stock of the world. WTF!

I'm not religious, but do think freedom of religious expression is really important and have seen that a lot of people get happiness, fulfillment, comfort and/or peace from religion.

But, I'm uncertain about this one. It makes sense to me that the military code should be uniform, as you said, and not reflective of any religion - western or eastern-based.

Maybe that's because I'm just used to it being that way. IDK. I need to consider more the pros and cons of this changing policy, I think. I hadn't ever heard of there being any kind of problem with the standard uniform code prior to seeing the story this morning.

[aussiefriend]

Are those hats available online?

[Duchess]

Are those hats available online?

Yes! Ebay. not kidding.

I'm all for religious freedom but there is a standard in our military and I'd rather they didn't stray from that.

[aussiefriend]

I don't like to boast, but with a lovely brooch in the middle, I am sure I could pull it off.

[Cynical Ninja]

It doesn't really bother me.

If my country is being invaded I'd be more concerned our soldiers were well trained and compotent in the art of killing the enemy.

What silly hat he wears or what beard he grows wouldn't really bother me much. How does wearing a silly hat or growing a beard affect the combat readiness of a soldier?

[Duchess]

How does wearing a silly hat or growing a beard affect the combat readiness of a soldier?

It has to do with keeping to the high standard that was set and has always been adhered to. I don't want some cocksucking dothead in full beard and turban representing my country. Fuck that and fuck them. They don't want to do it like it has always been done then don't enlist. No one is making these people sign on the dotted line. They have a choice.

[Cynical Ninja]

The Sikhs fought for the allies during WW2, they all wore Sikh turbans, that made them no less brave and effective as soldiers.

I don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

[Duchess]

You misunderstand me. I am not saying it makes them less brave, it doesn't make them less capable, it doesn't mean they can't fight. I am saying, stay true to the high standards that have always been in place.

[Cynical Ninja]

So letting a Hindu wear his cast system dot, letting a Sikh wear his turban, letting a Muslim wear their taqiyah and letting a Jew wear their kippah is “lowering standards”?

I don't follow you?

[Duchess]

What's not to follow? The military has standards that have always been in place and I'd like to see them continue to enforce them. I don't have a problem with what those ethnic groups want to wear, don't care a bit but if they want to be in the United States military then follow the rules that have always been in place. That's all I'm saying.

[crash]

Ahh...tolerance is an easy word to say, is it not?

[Duchess]

Sure it's an easy word to say. You think I'm being intolerant?

Here's the thing, people express the desire to be treated as an equal yet they want standards changed to suit them.

[crash]

Wouldn't a second generation American born person of the Sikh faith be doing just that? Requesting equal rights to fight for his country as an American born citizen, yet still preserve his religious beliefs?

[Duchess]

Wouldn't a second generation American born person of the Sikh faith be doing just that? Requesting equal rights to fight for his country as an American born citizen, yet still preserve his religious beliefs?

I don't see anyone trying to take their faith away from them. This particular conversation is in regards to allowing them to have full beards & wear turbans. I don't agree with allowing them to do that. If they want to be part of the American military then they need to follow the standards that have always been in place, that's all, nothing more, nothing less.

[crash]

Yes, but taking their beard and turban away, to them, is taking their religion away. It would be akin to making a Jewish marine eat pork because that is all that's on the menu, or denying a Christian marine their bible because a pack should only weigh 28 pounds.

ETA: and it's not like the American military standards haven't evolved over the years. The uniforms have changed to keep with the times and technology. Gay people are more accepted. Weapons have been updated. What is the big fear here? I'm sure your enemies will still shoot at the bearded dudes with the funny headwear?

[Duchess]

Yes, but taking their beard and turban away, to them, is taking their religion away. It would be akin to making a Jewish marine eat pork because that is all that's on the menu, or denying a Christian marine their bible because a pack should only weigh 28 pounds.

[crash]

Yeah..that good old tolerance thing. Easy to say.