BILL COSBY ACCUSED OF RAPE

[HairOfTheDog]

Mags, there is no valid comparison to groupies back in the day and the alleged date rape victims in the Cosby case.

There is a consistent M.O. in all of the accounts. Cosby approached the women. He offered them mentoring, education and career guidance. For the younger ones, he ingratiated himself with their parents and family members. He delivered on what he promised, for a while, and they trusted him and depended on him. Then, he began drugging them and having sex with them when they didn't have the consciousness and motor skills to consent or resist. That's not a groupie scenario.

Kinda surprised me to read your theory that this is really a story about a bunch of unrelated women who chased after a young hot Cosby and then got together years later to claim they were drugged by him because they were embarrassed that they'd repeatedly slept with a black man. Very few, if any, women of any color would rather be called a stupid weak prostitute, liar, groupie (those kinds of things that posters here are suggesting, which aren't original when it comes to labeling repeat acquaintance/date rape victims) than acknowledge that they slept with a black man. It was the late 60s through the early 2000s that these incidents allegedly occurred, not 1949 and not limited to 1984. I don't see this being a conspiracy by a bunch of unrelated women to get revenge on Cosby for having sex with them while black.

You (collective you) don't have to find the women smart or sympathetic or deserving of a god damn thing. You can choose to believe that every one of them is lying and they all have it out for Bill Cosby for some reason. But, if you acknowledge that some of the date/drug rape allegations are quite likely true -- and you're compelled to make up excuses and situations that aren't part of the story in order to give Cosby a pass (MS's use of the term was accurate) --then you're supporting men luring and grooming stupid, needy, maybe greedy, young women in order to render them unconscious with drugs and have non-consensual sex with them. And, that's your prerogative.

[HairOfTheDog]

So the Coz gets a pass here?

You got any proof? Can you show me even one iota of evidence that this occurred as all these women say it did? What exactly have you got that verifies all of this. Give me something that proves he drugged and raped these women and I'd be delighted to string him up by his balls. I don't give a shit if they were 15 or 55, one knows the difference between good touching and bad touching and if you think you've been violated you don't continue to put yourself in the position to have it happen again and again for years.

I don't think MS was off the mark.

Personally, I don't have any proof that would stand up in a court of law. But, I have no problem whatsoever reviewing all of the information that's available to me and forming an opinion. I'm not on a jury here and there's no conviction in play.

I think Bill Cosby is guilty based on the accusations, the consistency between the ones made at different times by what I consider credible accusers, and the fact that Cosby settled a rape case out of court -- one whereby he cannot claim that the woman he allegedly assaulted was lying or discredited (there is a reason for that).

Cosby had already been forced in another court case to admit that he'd lied repeatedly about not having affairs and keeping a woman on the side for years. So, he didn't need to try to hide the fact that he was a cheater if it was actually consensual sex he'd had with the rape accuser and all of the 13 Jane Doe witnesses; his womanizing was already a matter of public record and nobody really seemed to pay attention or care.

Cosby's demeanor and verbiage when he attempted to shame and question the integrity of the AP reporter after the Nov. 6 interview (video below) also tells me, personally, a lot about Bill Cosby and leads me to believe that he did drug and rape women he was supposedly mentoring.



I might change my mind if more information is presented, or if Cosby issues a denial and I find it compelling. But, based on everything I've checked out, for now it would only be wishful thinking on my part to assume that he never used drugs to date rape women.

[Duchess]

I could be moved to believe every single accusation. What I find illogical are the women who have claimed to have been drugged & raped is the fact that they continued to spend time with him, in some instances, years, also didn't some of them continue to be with him in order to further their own agendas? If I understand that correctly then I firmly believe it's all on them. If you hurt me, I am not coming back for more FFS, even a dog has more sense than that.

[HairOfTheDog]

I know you don't understand it and a lot of others don't understand it, Duchess. I understand it, but not because it's a situation that I believe I could get myself into.

I understand it because I understand that there are all kinds of people in this world; some are quite willingly ignorant or deliberately stupid, especially younger people. Some are emotionally weak, gullible or needy. Some are greedy. Some don't have as much sense as a dog. Those things cause people to stay in compromising situations sometimes, for that they are personally responsible. However, I don't think that means it's okay for a person they trust to drug them in order to have non-consensual sex with them. He doesn't have the right to do that even if the woman is his wife, or a professional prostitute, or someone he sometimes has consensual sex with. For that, he is personally responsible. I mean, picture that going down in your mind. It is very fucked up bullshit -- getting off on completely violating another human being while they're incapacitated without their consent.

Cosby joked about drugging women's drinks back in 69, before he honed the family man image. That's a strange thing for a comedian to joke about, IMO, then or now. My dad was a Cosby fan. I never found that bit (posted below) funny, personally, though a couple of his stand-up bits crack me up to this day. I can reconcile that he's smart, funny, talented, influential AND quite possibly a fucked-up power-trippin' serial date rapist too. I can absolutely believe it, even though I wish it weren't true.



Anyway, there are a lot of cases where people in a position of trust have groomed and raped men and women who were under their mentoring for years. Sexual predators of that sort are nothing new, though the people they've preyed upon are the least likely to report it, for reasons already addressed. I just keep repeating the same type of information in response to the same types of comments and questions, but you can research and find analysis of such predators and their victims' psychologies, if you're interested in understanding it better.

Bill Cosby isn't unique as a predator, if the accusations are true -- he's just more well-known and seemingly universally liked (which would be one of the reasons he was able to pull it off and get away with it for so long).

[Carsman]

Back in the "old" days, it used to be "Innocent until proven guilty"!

Not so much today, today "it's guilty until proven innocent".

[HairOfTheDog]

People have always had a right to form opinions and express them Cars; nothing new there.

Since the "old" days, forums and social media have emerged as venues in which to exert that same old freedom of speech that we've always enjoyed. And, here you are.

You're not in a court of law deliberating a criminal or civil case. So, opinions about guilt or innocence aren't subject to restriction here at Mock (nor were the opinions expressed around the water cooler in the "old" days).

All of which is a good thing for you. You're free to continue making allegations against President Obama or claims about Ebola conspiracies and cover-ups or whatever else you choose, without being subject to burden of proof or presumption of innocence.

[Carsman]

Yes I am free to mock O, & Eboooola, thankyou for pointing that out.


In the mean time:

Last night, Bill Cosby performed to a sold-out crowd at Eastern Florida State College in Melbourne, Florida, and no member of the audience took up a local radio station's offer to disrupt the show over the sexual assault allegations dogging the comedian, reports the New York Times. Instead, they gave Cosby standing ovations when he came onto and left the stage. In an interview with Florida Today, Cosby said the radio station's offer had created a "frat house mentality." Which could have sparked violance, luckly it did not.

Cosby said, "I know people are tired of me not saying anything, but a guy doesn't have to answer to innuendos. People should fact check. People shouldn't have to go through that and shouldn't answer to innuendos."

He S/B considered innoncent, until proven guilty by facts, not guilty by innuendos.

[HairOfTheDog]

Good to know you're all clear, Cars.

For a while there it was looking a lot like you'd forgotten where you were and that everyone else here is as free to express their opinions about any person or topic in the news as you are to express yours -- in whatever form they please.

No one here has stated guilt as a fact rather than an opinion, but what you and Cosby think we should be thinking and doing is so noted. I will give it all the consideration it's due.

By the way, he's not refraining from answering to "innuendo". That's weak spin and deflection. He's refraining from answering to clearly stated direct allegations. In any case, it's his right not to address them.

[Midwest Spy]

Back in the "old" days, it used to be "Innocent until proven guilty"!

Not so much today, today "it's guilty until proven innocent".

Yeah, Cars, I'd bet there are many people that don't like that times are changing.

Back in the Good Old Days, women just kept their mouth shut when a piece of shit drugged and raped them.

Now they're running their mouth and making shit up as it goes along, ruining a fine man's reputation.

In this case, there's a ton of smoke. And, where there's smoke there's fire. Normally.

Most intelligent people could see that.

[Duchess]

Most intelligent people could see that.

Bitch please!

[blueberryhill]

Back in the "old" days, it used to be "Innocent until proven guilty"!

Not so much today, today "it's guilty until proven innocent".

Back in the dark ages, it wasn't always innocent until proven guilty in rape cases. It was usually the victim who was guilty until proven innocent and guess what, it is still the same today. Blaming the victim is alive and well. Cosby's public persona would over ride any possible allegations made against him. As far as ladies going back for more....if they were drugged, they could justify it didn't happen as they really though Cosby could help them reach their goal of stardom.

If you do any research at all about this man, you will see what a prick he was to work with and the facts that rumors about his sexual aggressiveness was being talked about 45 years ago. Wow, and people are still talking about it. Must not be true, let's sweep this under the rug and move forward. This man is a rapist (IMO) and will not change. Research Human Sexuality 101....and look up "Bill Cobsy is an asshole" on the internet. Read a few things written by people who worked with this man. Some of the ladies he allegedly raped didn't use good judgement perhaps, but that doesn't mean they deserved to be raped. Again, look up how many times rapes go unreported due to reasons being discussed in this forum. It was a tough thing to go to trial and prove rape back in the day. There were no rape kits, it was he said, she said, and the person with the most power was who people believed. Today, going to trial is still difficult to contend with, and I completely understand why most women wouldn't want to go through this (even with DNA from rape kit). Your reputation is destroyed and you are made to feel like a criminal....Gee, wonder why this is most under reported crime in the nation? If you have been drinking, you blame yourself, you're embarrassed, u don't want family to know, u know u will have to face rapist in court, and so on. and if the rapist is famous, oh well, no one is going to believe you so gonna keep my mouth shut. I agree that they should not have gone back, but they screwed up and they did, and he continued his bad behavior. He needs to be accountable for that.

[Midwest Spy]

Most intelligent people could see that.

Bitch please!

Moron, please.

(said while chuckling)

[Carsman]

I said it in an earlier post, (73) and I'll say it again.
"I've never been a Cosby fan myself, and actually don't like the guy."
Actually, I never even liked his recent "thugs black bashing videos", as I felt it was done just for attention getting headlines for himself.

One has to admit it is somewhat dubious as to why "all" these women waited 30+ years to finally report their rapes. There are so many out there, why didn't even just one get pissed off enough to say fuck it all, and report it back then. Yeah, yeah, fame, power, father figure, mentor, and all that. Just one!

[username]

There were no rape kits.. ..

I needed to know when they were developed:

Developed in the late 1970s, sexual assault medical forensic exams (commonly known as “rape kits”) are intended to assist in the adjudication of sexual assault cases. Nurses allied with the anti-rape movement have led advocacy efforts to promote the adoption of rape kits in hospital emergency departments. Like other medical procedures, sexual assault medical forensic exams are conducted according to guidelines and protocols that lay out evidence collection routines and classify the physical injuries associated with the incident.

[username]

Back in the "old" days, it used to be "Innocent until proven guilty"!

Not so much today, today "it's guilty until proven innocent".

As far as ladies going back for more....if they were drugged, they could justify it didn't happen as they really though Cosby could help them reach their goal of stardom.

So they dismissed the idea of whether or not they might have been raped because their careers were more important to them at the time. Right?

Some people call that sleeping your way to the top.

[HairOfTheDog]

One has to admit it is somewhat dubious as to why "all" these women waited 30+ years to finally report their rapes. There are so many out there, why didn't even just one get pissed off enough to say fuck it all, and report it back then. Yeah, yeah, fame, power, father figure, mentor, and all that. Just one!

Cars, you are wrong. Not "all" of these women waited 30 years. Your plea for "Just one!" = done deal. That's been covered in posts upthread and in the story links as well.

Cosby settled with a woman who was allegedly drugged and assaulted in 2004; she took her complaint to criminal court and then to civil court shortly after the alleged drugging and sexual assault.

13 women filed similar complaints against Cosby and were set to testify against him in the civil trial; they wanted to support the complainant and confront Cosby in court. They did not want to be identified in the media and most of them still remain anonymous outside of the court. Cosby settled with the complainant before those witnesses got a chance to testify.

Their accounts are all on record in court docs and have been for over 10 years now. You don't know how long before that the anonymous witnesses encountered Cosby; none of us do. Still, we know for a fact that not all of the women waited 30 years to tell anyone, as you wrongly exclaim and lament above.

[blueberryhill]

There were no rape kits.. ..

I needed to know when they were developed:

Developed in the late 1970s, sexual assault medical forensic exams (commonly known as “rape kits”) are intended to assist in the adjudication of sexual assault cases. Nurses allied with the anti-rape movement have led advocacy efforts to promote the adoption of rape kits in hospital emergency....

O.K. smarty pants, there were semen samples saved (not all) in some cases, but they didn't have DNA to identify perp. In recent years, DNA has put some people in jail and some innocent men have been released from prisons due to refined technology in DNA. One case I read about (re Cosby) was reported in 1969. Now, even if one person's claim of rape had been documented by hospital visit to obtain semen sample and it had been stored, he might be proved to be not only a rapist, but a big, fat, old liar.

[blueberryhill]

P.S. I have no idea why they kept going back and maybe they do call it sleeping to the top and i don't care. I was never star struck but i know some young women became prostitutes to pay the bills in their endeavors to get that dream casting call.....some became strippers so maybe Cosby was the lesser of all of the other evils. Also, not all of the women kept going back. Some of the women did report it to the police, attorney, and got nowhere.

[HairOfTheDog]

I like this actress, Michelle Hurd. She gets a lot of work (network, Shakespeare, cable), so you might recognize her face and her husband's -- he's also a busy working actor, Garret Dillahunt.



Here's what she posted yesterday:

LOOK, I wasn't going to say anything, but I can't believe some of the things i've been reading, SO here is MY personal experience:

I did stand-in work on The Cosby show back in the day and YES, Bill Cosby was VERY inappropriate with me. It started innocently, lunch in his dressing room, daily, then onto weird acting exercises were he would move his hands up and down my body, (can't believe I fell for that) I was instructed to NEVER tell anyone what we did together, (he said other actors would become jealous) and then fortunately, I dodged the ultimate bullet with him when he asked me to come to his house, take a shower so we could blow dry my hair and see what it looked like straightened. At that point my own red flags went off and I told him, “No, I'll just come to work tomorrow with my hair straightened”.

I then started to take notice and found another actress, a stand-in as well, and we started talking….. A LOT …. turns out he was doing the same thing to her, almost by the numbers, BUT, she did go to his house and because I will not name her, and it is her story to tell, all I'll say is she awoke, after being drugged, vomited, and then Cosby told her there's a cab waiting for you outside.

I have ABSOLUTELY no reason to lie or make up this up!
Anyone that knows me, knows that!

Now you have a first hand account of my experience with Mr. Cosby.

Off you go…

I believe her. If he's guilty, I think now that Cosby's lost the power to carry through on threats to screw up their careers, more well-known women who were targeted by Cosby will be stepping forward -- sucks to have to keep such a secret and see someone that you know is vile being hailed publicly.

Bill Cosby was pretty sanctimonious when it came to Lisa Bonet taking roles that conflicted with her good girl Huxtable mage. She did not seem to like the man. Kinda curious as to what she has to say, if anything.

[username]

I'm pretty sure he did a lot of the things he's accused of. At minimum he took advantage of women and quite possibly drugged them up or used his position to coerce them in to sex. Regardless, I don't give these women a full pass if they kept going back, knowing he was quite possibly a pervert, in an effort to further their careers. Plus, we talk about how times were different for women back then; they were also different for men. Rape wasn't as specifically defined back then as it is today. There were a lot more questions about what constitutes consensual sex as opposed to rape those days. I think even stupid men were confused until we had this whole "no means no" campaign and witnessed (through social media) men having sex with women who were seemingly unconscious at the time.

JFK was a horny bastard...I wonder how many women felt obliged to sleep with him for fear he might ruin their careers.

I still think if I were a guy today I'd want a written contract before engaging in sex with a woman who was even mildly intoxicated. I betcha' with very little effort, I could go out, get laid and cry rape the next day. Except for having the sex part, that sounds like the easiest set up in the world if a person were so inclined.