THE REBEL FLAG

[BlueTiki]

You learn something new everyday Tiki.

I do at least.

Thanks, doll!

I'm penning a nastygram to Ken Burns and Peter Coyote by COB!

Effin' history revisionists!

[HairOfTheDog]

And then there was that whole "States Rights" thing too which is conveniently left out of EVERY conversation about the Civil War. SC even issued a "Declaration of Causes" along with their "Article of Secessession."

I think supporters of the flag and those who want it taken down should both protest.

States' rights in regards to slavery, Gunnar.

It's been stated by a few of us and several times in this thread.

It neither been conveniently nor inconveniently left out of this discussion.

But, don't let that stop you from protesting that it's been left out.

[Blindgreed1]

And then there was that whole "States Rights" thing too which is conveniently left out of EVERY conversation about the Civil War. SC even issued a "Declaration of Causes" along with their "Article of Secessession."

I think supporters of the flag and those who want it taken down should both protest.

States' rights in regards to slavery, Gunnar.

It's been stated by a few of us and several times in this thread.

It neither been conveniently nor inconveniently left out of this discussion.

But, don't let that stop you from protesting that it's been left out.

No in regards to commerce. The North made it about slavery by blocking the ports unless the South abolished slavery HoTD. As maggs pointed out, had it been a phasing out as opposed to "slaves are free... Deal with it" attitude there wouldn't have been as much hostility. The North cut off the South's lifeline in order to impose the law.

[HairOfTheDog]

Do you not understand that what you just wrote, historically validated or not, confirms rather than disputes that the Civil War was in regards to slavery, Gunnar?

Rhetorical question.

[Jimbone]

Your move Amazon.

Well that didn't take long.

Amazon is in on the ban!!!

[HairOfTheDog]

For Gunnar.

March 26, 1861

Alexander H. Stephens, Vice-President of the Confederate States of America, delivered the Confederate Corner Stone speech to a packed house at the Athenaeum in Savannah, Georgia.

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition. [Applause.] This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science. It has been so even amongst us. Many who hear me, perhaps, can recollect well, that this truth was not generally admitted, even within their day. The errors of the past generation still clung to many as late as twenty years ago. Those at the North, who still cling to these errors, with a zeal above knowledge, we justly denominate fanatics. All fanaticism springs from an aberration of the mind — from a defect in reasoning. It is a species of insanity. One of the most striking characteristics of insanity, in many instances, is forming correct conclusions from fancied or erroneous premises; so with the anti-slavery fanatics; their conclusions are right if their premises were. They assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just — but their premise being wrong, their whole argument fails. I recollect once of having heard a gentleman from one of the northern States, of great power and ability, announce in the House of Representatives, with imposing effect, that we of the South would be compelled, ultimately, to yield upon this subject of slavery, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics, as it was in physics or mechanics. That the principle would ultimately prevail. That we, in maintaining slavery as it exists with us, were warring against a principle, a principle founded in nature, the principle of the equality of men. The reply I made to him was, that upon his own grounds, we should, ultimately, succeed, and that he and his associates, in this crusade against our institutions, would ultimately fail. The truth announced, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics as it was in physics and mechanics, I admitted; but told him that it was he, and those acting with him, who were warring against a principle. They were attempting to make things equal which the Creator had made unequal.

He said a lot more -- all equally unambiguous as to what the Confederate States were fighting for and against.

That's just the way it is, or was...

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/libra...h-excerpt/

[HairOfTheDog]

Your move Amazon.

Well that didn't take long.

Amazon is in on the ban!!!

Never fear, the Rebels are organizing and will rise in protest!

Loud calls to take down the flag from the South Carolina capital and from other government-sponsored locations has opponents planning rallies and mulling boycotts.

On a forum run by the white-supremacist group Stormfront, members are chatting about buying flag stickers in bulk and slapping them up at their local Walmart to protest the retail giant's decision to stop selling Confederate merchandise.

"I say boycott Walmart or any other business which refuses to sell Confederate Flags, which are simply a part of American and Southern history and heritage," one forum member wrote.

A Facebook page run by Defenders of the Confederate Cross has invited hundreds of people to attend a Saturday protest at the South Carolina Statehouse in Columbia.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/conf...es-n380246
====================



Freedom of speech. I love this country.

[BlueTiki]

Your move Amazon.

Well that didn't take long.

Amazon is in on the ban!!!

Hahaha!

I love bandwagons!

[Blindgreed1]

For Gunnar.

March 26, 1861

Alexander H. Stephens, Vice-President of the Confederate States of America, delivered the Confederate Corner Stone speech to a packed house at the Athenaeum in Savannah, Georgia.

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition. [Applause.] This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science. It has been so even amongst us. Many who hear me, perhaps, can recollect well, that this truth was not generally admitted, even within their day. The errors of the past generation still clung to many as late as twenty years ago. Those at the North, who still cling to these errors, with a zeal above knowledge, we justly denominate fanatics. All fanaticism springs from an aberration of the mind — from a defect in reasoning. It is a species of insanity. One of the most striking characteristics of insanity, in many instances, is forming correct conclusions from fancied or erroneous premises; so with the anti-slavery fanatics; their conclusions are right if their premises were. They assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just — but their premise being wrong, their whole argument fails. I recollect once of having heard a gentleman from one of the northern States, of great power and ability, announce in the House of Representatives, with imposing effect, that we of the South would be compelled, ultimately, to yield upon this subject of slavery, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics, as it was in physics or mechanics. That the principle would ultimately prevail. That we, in maintaining slavery as it exists with us, were warring against a principle, a principle founded in nature, the principle of the equality of men. The reply I made to him was, that upon his own grounds, we should, ultimately, succeed, and that he and his associates, in this crusade against our institutions, would ultimately fail. The truth announced, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics as it was in physics and mechanics, I admitted; but told him that it was he, and those acting with him, who were warring against a principle. They were attempting to make things equal which the Creator had made unequal.

He said a lot more -- all equally unambiguous as to what the Confederate States were fighting for and against.

That's just the way it is, or was...

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/libra...h-excerpt/

This may come as a surprise to you HoTD, but the seceeding states were not really very well united to begin with. In fact, of the four that tendered a "Declaration of Causes" (which by the way was not required to seceed) all differed greatly. Georgia being the highest percentage of seceeding due to the slavery abolishment. As it is today, things arent always as cut and dry as they seem on the surface HoTD and no ammount of cut and paste from public speeches from that era will ever explain the underlying causes, but in a nut shell: The North abolished slavery which was easy for the North to do. They didn't rely on slave labor or cotton and tobacco crops to pay the bills. The North put their hands around the throat (and deep into their pockets) of the South and squeezed hard in order to force the South into compliance. Now if i'm a regular non-land owning southerner who never owned a slave and my family doesn't have food to put on the table because of the North's hands around the neck of the South economy, you'd better bet your ass I'm taking up arms over it.

[Blindgreed1]

Furthermore, the financial hardship the North put on the South to begin with is what won the war for the North.

[HairOfTheDog]

I'm lucky you're here to surprise me and set me straight, Gunnar.

Furthermore...........no that's it, really.

[HairOfTheDog]

Your move Amazon.

Well that didn't take long.

Amazon is in on the ban!!!

Hahaha!

I love bandwagons!

It's a banwagon, a caraban...bantastic even!

Funny stuff.

I bet there will be a lot of private vendors making a fortune selling mini Confederate flags this 4^th of July.

[Blindgreed1]

I'm lucky you're here to surprise me and set me straight, Gunnar.

Furthermore...........no that's it, really.

It's a gift.

[BlueTiki]

I'm curious as to what America's nigger, Dolezal, has to say about the Johnny Reb flag.

I'd like to hear the perspective of a woman whose race simultaneously suffered and caused suffering.

Now that WalMart and Amazon have pulled the Stars and Bars, I will remember where I was when capitalism ended racism!

Laissez Faire! The market will decide before the politicians.

[Jimbone]

I'll give it to special interests... they sure know how to take advantage of an opportunity when its presented. Right out the the playbook. They are moving on all fronts to remove statues, rename lakes, schools, parks, and streets, and basically cleanse the nation of anything Confederate related.

No one should think for a second this is an altruistic moment people are taking. They are exploiting a crisis to erase history.

Stunning, but not surprising.

[BlueTiki]

How long before they start rounding up the whites like the Germans did the Jews?

Eliminate whitey . . . eliminate racism.

Can't be simpler than that.

[Blindgreed1]

What's next? No more Civil War reinactments? Sell the historical land? Yeah that's it. Sell the land. Build more WalMarts.

[HairOfTheDog]

The Confederate Flag may be removed from some governmental grounds.

I don't really get why some retailers are discontinuing sell of the flags, but it's their bottom line and their call.

Special interest groups do what they do, all of them. If they have a high visibility opportunity to exploit and promote their cause, they're gonna push/take it to the limit.

And, I do believe that some people and organizations firmly believe that this is a good opportunity to get the right thing done; something they've been pushing for years.

It's not the end of the white race or the erasure of Civil War history or anything like that, IMO.

[ramseycat]

The confederate flag did not make that dude kill those people.

[blueberryhill]

I was curious about the Union Flag, and it was basically a flag of the U.S. with 36 stars, although regiments carried different flags and colors..
Also Confederate flag was changed once or twice, but of course, the one we are used to seeing, was the last design to represent the South during Civil War.
I think S.C. capitol did right thing; as for businesses, etc., they sure don't want to offend any possible consumer so they usually follow the politically correct resolution...

This reminds me of the Native Americans wanting sports leagues to remove any reference to the Indian in team logo.. this is nonsense IMO. It should be an honor to have your ethnicity, etc. represented in a sports team name (well most of them, anyway).