TERRORIST ATTACKS: PARIS, MALI, AND MORE

[HairOfTheDog]

I'm pissed off about Belgian authorities' inaction and incompetence as the story of the Brussels bombings this weeks unfolds.

It was disturbing to find out that Abdeslam was pulled over and let go after the Paris terrorist attacks, apparently because the police didn't yet have the intel regarding the suspected terrorists. But, I thought, there was a hell of a lot going down and police are only human. So, okay.

Then, it really made me shake my head to learn that after four months of reportedly being searched for high and low as a key planner and lone survivor of the Paris attacks, it turned out that he was staying in his own neighborhood, very close to his old home, wandering the streets, and living with people who were known to be ISIS sympathizers.

Now, it's blowing my mind to find out that many of the terrorists involved in the Paris attacks and all of those involved in this week's Belgium bombings had been reported to local authorities by Belgian Security (given names and addresses even) and/or had traveled to Syria and Turkey and were deported back to Belgium for suspected terror affiliations............and little to nothing was done to track or stop them. So many missed opportunities, with Belgian officials pointing at each other now and basically saying, "it wasn't MY job."

Belgium is a small country with a huge amount of bureaucracy and segregated diversity. They're not only fucking themselves over by putting pissing contests before working together for public safety, but also endangering EU and all other countries by refusing to seriously address clear terrorist threats and instead allowing terror cells to grow, plot and act.

[HairOfTheDog]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ssels.html

[Duchess]

CNN just showed everyone how to make bomb, they told the viewer what they needed. Why would they do that? I know the information is easily obtained on the Internet, it's not like it's a secret but Jesus, why would they offer it up like that.

[Donovan]

Yeah, because leaving them alone is what led to all that hatred of the US and radicalization, as opposed to, say, years of airstrikes and bombings and meaningless for-profit war that killed all their uncles and fathers and brothers etc...

Died in the Wool Libs will never change their stripes.

Why should we? Jesus was on our side.

Always find a way to blame America, or Christianity, for Islamic Terrorists.

Just about every radical terror group currently in operation can trace its origins back to American interference and attempts at empire building. I hate to break it to you, old son, but we haven't been the good guys in a very long time.

BTW, your Islamic Terrorists tried to bring down the WTC in 1993, well before any Iraqi bombing had begun.

In point of fact, 19 of the 20 9-11 terrorists, as well as Bin Laden himself, were Saudi Arabian. In retaliation for their attack on US soil, the Americans bombed and or attacked Saudi Arabia exactly zero times. And as long as we're saying BTW, the WTC bombing in 1993 killed six people and injured about a thousand. The first gulf war in 1990-1991 killed a reported 20 to 35 THOUSAND Iraqi soldiers and injured 75000 more. Estimates of civilian casualties were around 3,500 from bombing alone and 100,000 from "assorted effects of war" like fun starvation, disease and general pillaging and chaos.
Quite a tally. So let's say allowing for inflated casualty numbers roughly 175,000 Iraqis give or take were killed or maimed by the American led invasion of 1990. Since the population of Iraq circa 1990 was about 17.5 million, that means fully 1% of the population suffered at our hands. That's a whole fucking lot of pent up anger.

And the second Iraq war, started after we lost about 3500 people in the WTC? TO NO ONE FROM IRAQ?

Coalition troops - 24,219 killed, 117,961 wounded

Iraqi soldiers and combatants - estimated 28,821 to 37,405 killed

Civilian combat deaths - 134,000; civilian violent deaths - approximately 600,000

Try to find some other fault of the Western World that explains why Allah says it's okay to slaughter us.

Allah doesn't. The ISIL and other related groups don't speak for or represent Islam or the vast majority of muslim people any more than Westboro Baptist Church represents you. But you know who DOES say it's okay to persecute and slaughter people with different beliefs? Donald Trump. and a fella named Karadzic.

Any other questions or comments?

[sally]

And, the experts contend that Trump is feeding into what Islamic terrorists sell to recruits and members (that the U.S. hates Muslims and wants to torture and kill them).

And did the experts ever consider that the recruits and members are fucking nuts either way? So what, we just speak nicely of the terrorists and they'll stop blowing up crowds of people? We now have to baby a group of people who have the largest majority of extremists so they don't blow anymore shit up?

[HairOfTheDog]

I'm not an expert sal, and I don't know what the specific experts cited are thinking.

What they're saying is that we should be aggressive in catching the terrorists before they strike, or killing/capturing active terrorists when we're up against them.

But, threatening to torture or kill suspects and their families, or enacting policies that target all Muslims, feeds into the recruiters' message -- namely that Westerners/non-Muslims have killed Muslims without cause and want to keep doing it. When you have a country's leaders advocating policies which target all Muslims and includes breaking international laws and treaties, it validates that message and attracts people to the cause (not all of whom were fucking nuts before they became radicalized, that we know).

That's my understanding of what I've read anyway.

[sally]

I was directing that more to the experts than you of course, but I don't see Trump attacking any Muslims other than terrorists and their families. I think torturing the family is way over the top and insane, but I can also see a lot of people saying they wouldn't piss on the terrorists and their families if they were on fire. Also I personally think any adult who is able to become radicalized is without a doubt fucking nuts to begin with.

[HairOfTheDog]

Trump has advocated for a freeze on Muslims entering the country, any Muslims, even those that live here and are simply returning home.

His suggestions that family members should be killed is insane to me as well. A lot of people might well say they would hold an entire family responsible for the actions of other family members and wouldn't piss on any of them if they were on fire. But, not a lot of people are being heard by millions of people around the world every day in speaking as a candidate for the presidency of the United States.

Anyway, aside from the San Bernadino terrorist's wife, the people in this country who've been busted or killed trying to join ISIS or pull-off an ISIS-inspired attack are Americans. Most of them were not Muslims before they were lured in; they converted. I wouldn't argue against most or all of them (along with non-Muslim recruits and converts from all Western countries) being fucking nuts. But, freezing all Muslims out of the U.S. for some period wouldn't have stopped them because they were already here. I do support strict screening of all new immigrants and strict screening of U.S. citizens coming and going from known terrorist hotbeds however.

The reason I'm pissed about Belgium is that authorities there apparently let internal political divides keep them from doing what the U.S. and Australia and Israel...do well; investigating suspicious activity, travel, and security reports in regards to our citizens; arresting and charging citizens on suspicion of terrorist activity when evidence exists; prosecuting and taking the assholes off the street.

The terrorists behind the Paris and Brussels attacks were all second generation Belgian citizens, not refugees or new immigrants, as far as I know. Yet, some of them traveled back and forth to Syria for terror training. And, they weren't stopped or even monitored, despite having been reported as having terrorist affiliations. I think the international community, especially the French, should work to mandate immediate change in Belgian security and hold Belgian authorities responsible for doing their jobs.

[BigMark]

If you lost a war in the old days your family was raped and pillaged. Our society forgets that war can never be politically correct and successful.

[Duchess]

I used to creep on terrorists. I couldn't always understand what they were posting because I don't read Arabic but during those times that I could understand I saw that they were often confronted by Westerners for murdering innocents. Without fail their defense was always that Americans never cared where their bombs were dropped and plenty of their innocents were killed too. They have a point. I am not defending terrorists, I am simply understanding that single point.

[Maggot]

It looks like Poland has finally come to their senses.

[HairOfTheDog]

I used to creep on terrorists. I couldn't always understand what they were posting because I don't read Arabic but during those times that I could understand I saw that they were often confronted by Westerners for murdering innocents. Without fail their defense was always that Americans never cared where their bombs were dropped and plenty of their innocents were killed too. They have a point. I am not defending terrorists, I am simply understanding that single point.

I remember when you were on the jihadist troll.

I don't defend or validate terrorists either. But, I don't think it's difficult to understand how the founders of ISIS attracted so many Muslim pledges in Iraq.

Some of them were smart and savvy men who were caged in the desert for years in harsh prison camps for supporting Iraq's leader, Saddam Hussein. The country had been invaded by the U.S. Tens of thousands of Muslims were killed by U.S. forces and western allies. All of it was motivated by U.S. claims that Saddam Hussein had aided and abetted the ⁹⁄₁₁ terrorists and that Hussein was violating international laws and treaties by stockpiling WMDs -- both of those claims we now know were false.

So, the fact that those Saddam loyalists and thousands of affected Muslims in the country were pissed off and wanted revenge is not difficult to fathom. Along with a revenge motive came a greed and power motive pushed by a fundamentalist and radical interpretation of Islam. "See, Sunni Muslims, they're persecuting us and killing us without cause -- it's a virtual Holy War -- it's your duty and glorious honor to fight as Sunni Muslims against the infidels (which happens to include those damned Shiite Muslims too)!!"

Westerners taking the internet propaganda bait, converting, joining ISIS, traveling to Syria to fight with ISIS and other Islamic terror groups..............probably have different underlying motives, for the most part. I think many of them were likely fucking nuts to begin with and adopted a cause that invited them in and fit their personal needs. The domestic converts/terrorists are by far a bigger threat to citizens living in the U.S. than Middle Eastern and Northern African terrorists sneaking in, given our geographic distance and our security processes Those are my observations and opinions anyway.

[Midwest Spy]

If you lost a war in the old days your family was raped and pillaged. Our society forgets that war can never be politically correct and successful.

Good Point, BigMark.

There are people right here in this forum that don't believe that this is a war.

They want to coddle and defend the rights (and opinions) of terrorists. They'd like to look into their souls and understand their torment and why they choose to do what they do.

All the time, of course, these very same terrorists would slaughter them in a second if given a chance.

The terrorists may not have the manpower or the means at this time, but if they did, they'd wreak carnage all over the Western World.

They hate us and everything we stand for. They have zero tolerance.

And it is religious. In Africa, terrorists at several locations have asked people, "are you Muslim?", if so, they're spared. Those that can't recite from the Koran are butchered.

We keep preaching tolerance because that's the beauty of our society. We like to give the benefit of the doubt.

At some point, however, to ensure our society's safety, there becomes a need to profile, and if need be, discard the trash.

[Duchess]

There are people right here in this forum that don't believe that this is a war.

They want to coddle and defend the rights (and opinions) of terrorists.

*gasp* Who?

[Midwest Spy]

There are people right here in this forum that don't believe that this is a war.

They want to coddle and defend the rights (and opinions) of terrorists.

*gasp* Who?

You're bright enough to figure it out.

[Maggot]

I believe a moratorium on incoming refuges is warranted today. All refuges.

[Duchess]

I haven't seen anyone coddling & defending the rights of terrorists.

[HairOfTheDog]

There are people right here in this forum that don't believe that this is a war.

They want to coddle and defend the rights (and opinions) of terrorists.

*gasp* Who?

You're bright enough to figure it out.

I'm apparently not bright enough, so why not just spit it out MS.

Do you think that acknowledging the claimed and potential motivations of terrorist groups is 'coddling' or 'justifying' terrorism -- that trying to understand the root of it to keep it from spreading is somehow 'coddling' or 'sympathizing' with terrorists?

Do you think we should torture and kill the families of suspected/confirmed terrorists to try to get them to talk, like Donald Trump proposes? Do you think that we should rape and pillage the families of suspected or captured terrorists in this ideological war because BigMark says that's how it was in the old days and that's just what people in wars do? Do you think refraining from those kinds of barbaric acts today, which are now 'war crimes', equates to being 'PC'?

If that's what you're saying, I think it's really you who's not too bright on this one.

[Midwest Spy]

I haven't said anything about supporting torture and killing family members.

My main point is: this is a war against the West.

An actual war.

It may not be fought on battlefields or with missiles, but it IS us against them.

No matter how we arrived at this point, we as a society have to realize that.

Coddling and empathizing won't do us any good.

If they had the means, they'd destroy all of us in a heartbeat. That's their mindset.

Time to buckle up.

[Duchess]

Coddling and empathizing won't do us any good.

Is this all because I said I understand a point up there ^^^^^^?