Trump for president

[Donovan]

I don't understand why illegals cannot just get a green card and come in. Why do they have to sneak in? If it becomes acceptable policy they will continue to give the middle finger to American laws and more will do it. If they know its not worth sneaking in they won't do it but enticing them with free health care and all the amenities that legal Americans get will make them go the easy route.
If I was an illegal that went through all the work to get legal status I would be pissed. Why is it so "right" to sneak in?

They aren't.

[Maggot]

I don't understand why illegals cannot just get a green card and come in. Why do they have to sneak in? If it becomes acceptable policy they will continue to give the middle finger to American laws and more will do it. If they know its not worth sneaking in they won't do it but enticing them with free health care and all the amenities that legal Americans get will make them go the easy route.
If I was an illegal that went through all the work to get legal status I would be pissed. Why is it so "right" to sneak in?

They aren't.

I'm not specifying Mexicans, anyone, Columbians, Cubans, Chinese, anyone. And why is it so difficult to stop it?

[Donovan]

1) that's a big fucking brush to paint every single immigrant with the same motive. And since illegal chinamen are a hell of a lot harder trick that border jumpers, let's not pretend you were talking about anybody but Mexicans.
2) the goal of every person coming here is the same as those already here: a life better than what they can have in the place of their happenstance birth. The methods they use differ because the resources and wherewithal to get here differ. The desire does not.
3) This country is the property of an invading occupying force and has been for several centuries. That would be us. Our sovereignty is an accident of politics and luck and brutality. And if life were suddenly made better on that side of the border, we'd let nothing stop us from going there and taking it. So really, the "laws" you favor so highly to keep out undesirables might better be known by the more truthful name "shit we want OTHER people to obey."
4) They come because once upon a time we told the world a fairy tale of golden opportunity and lands of milk and honey, and the world believed us.

[BigMark]

That's POTD material there folks.

[Maggot]

Dono you never answered the question and avoided it. Why not do it legal? And you are just assuming that I was talking about Mexicans. How can a background check be done on people from a country that has no background information? I can only assume they have something to hide.

[Duchess]

Recently two graduating seniors in Texas came out as undocumented in their graduation speeches. Both graduated as Valedictorians and both got full scholarships, one to an ivy league college. People were pissed. I read some of the comments and it looked like many of them were from outraged parents who implied that those girls had taken their child's spot. *snorts* That's not how it works, had their child been that bright then their kid would have been the Valedictorian.

I'd probably have a feeling stronger than meh if I were surrounded by illegals but as far as I know, I'm not. The Mexicans here don't affect my life at all.

[Maggot]

Mexicans don't bother me either I know a few and they're easy going mostly. Reading stories about the border piss me off though. Why not become a U.S. citizen? If they are here for years what stops them?

[Duchess]

Why not become a U.S. citizen? If they are here for years what stops them?

I wish I could tell you, Maggottyboo but I just don't know the answer.

[Maggot]

I have no problem whatsoever with immigrants coming here and obtaining citizenship. Many get it in a few years and its probably tons of hoops to jump through but they did it. They should be pissed at the ones that don't. Get a temporary visa if that's what's going to happen.

[Donovan]

Because the road to citizenship is tricky, full of risks and pitfalls and not every person has the means and ability to take that risk. You act like a person can just stroll into the local convenience store and pick it off the shelves. But we as a country have been extremely unwelcoming to people of a certain color, shipping them back wholesale, regardless of age or circumstance or risk to their lives. If you had your family here and safe but illegally, would you risk that And roll the dice on the government's mercy especially with the rhetoric being poured out on television now? I think not.

[Duchess]

If you had your family here and safe but illegally, would you risk that And roll the dice on the government's mercy especially with the rhetoric being poured out on television now? I think not.

Straight up, no, I would not risk it and when put that way I can completely understand why they choose to risk what they do.

[Donovan]

There isn't anything I wouldn't do to make my family safe if it were in my power, up to and including breaking immigration (or other) laws. Because the one truism nobody likes to admit is that a crime is only a crime if you get caught, and it is always easier to ask forgiveness than permission.

[Maggot]

So you are advocating anarchism?

[Duchess]

[Blindgreed1]

Dono you never answered the question and avoided it. Why not do it legal? And you are just assuming that I was talking about Mexicans. How can a background check be done on people from a country that has no background information? I can only assume they have something to hide.

I can tell you that you're spot on about the folks that work hard to become citizens legally being pissed about illegals. I agree with dono that citizenship should be easier and more affordable, but I have a friend who not only took the time, money and effort to gain his own green card, but he also helped his two sisters become legal as well and he is a starving musician. Regardless of what excuses the left makes, it can be done the way it is now. I also think they need to take an in depth look at work visas. That was my friend's biggest pain in the ass. Keeping all three of them up to date and legally here until they got their green cards was touch and go most of the time and there were several times that one or all three were here illegally.

[Duchess]

Regardless of what excuses the left makes

Elaborate, please. What are the excuses?

[Blindgreed1]

Because the road to citizenship is tricky, full of risks and pitfalls and not every person has the means and ability to take that risk. You act like a person can just stroll into the local convenience store and pick it off the shelves. But we as a country have been extremely unwelcoming to people of a certain color, shipping them back wholesale, regardless of age or circumstance or risk to their lives. If you had your family here and safe but illegally, would you risk that And roll the dice on the government's mercy especially with the rhetoric being poured out on television now? I think not.

I think this is an adequate example Duchess. My friend and his sisters are brown skinned.

[Duchess]

...and you view that as excuse rather than a fact?

[Blindgreed1]

...and you view that as excuse rather than a fact?

As I said, I agree it should be easier and we need to take a look at work visas, but as I pointed out in the example of my friend and his two sisters, it is possible. It requires a lot of time and effort and some money, but it can be done by those without great means (hardly any in his case). So yes, it's an excuse.

[HairOfTheDog]

Both political parties agree that comprehensive immigration policy reform is long overdue.

For eight years, Congresspersons have been unwilling to work together to develop the best means by which to address immigrants already established and living in this country illegally (though both parties agree that those with criminal records should be deported), and to address border security and immigration administration.

The Democratic politicians are more united in their stance that hard-working immigrants with no legal troubles should be given a reasonable path to citizenship, more fencing and border patrol should be implemented, and better immigration administration should be funded to keep track of immigrant status.

The Republican politicians are more divided, as was very clear during the GOP primary debates. Some like Bush and Kasich and Graham think that a reasonable path to legalization and/or citizenship, plus easier guest-worker criteria for employers, is the right way to go. Others said they want to follow Trump's lead and deport every immigrant who's in the United States illegally. Some of them want 'The Wall' around the country's borders. Trump wants to deport all undocumented immigrants and to strip American children of undocumented immigrants of their citizenship too (would require constitutional amendment, in all likelihood).

At least 40% of undocumented immigrants came to the U.S. legally and let their visas or permits expire, they didn't sneak in. And, the only health care an illegal/undocumented immigrant can access is emergency room services.

Personally, I think a lot of politicians on both sides know that many states and industries depend on undocumented immigrants and aren't in a particular hurry to deport them or help them legalize their status. That's just my suspicion though, not a verified fact.