HILLARY FOR PRESIDENT

[BigMark]

She couldn't spend all her money if she tried.

[Duchess]

Once the media and everyone else, including some of you, start holding Trump to the same high standard that you hold Hillary to, I will shut the fuck up. Promise!

[HairOfTheDog]

I was being sincere when I said I felt sorry for her, whether she's just run down or it's something more.

I know. You're not one of the Hillary conspiracy theorists who seems almost giddy at the thought of something terrible happening to her.

Once the media and everyone else, including some of you, start holding Trump to the same high standard that you hold Hillary to, I will shut the fuck up. Promise!

Well, I don't want you to shut up, so I guess it's not so bad that the same standard will never by applied by most of the media (I think some media sources do a fair job though).

The media has to treat Trump seriously because he won the nomination and he's supported by a significant portion of the population. Whenever the media has tried to hold his feet to the fire over lies and 'deplorable' comments and incredible lack of transparency, his surrogates have changed the subject or lied while Trump moved on to the next antic.

Lately, Trump's been much more focused and less offensive, and Pence has become a more appealing defensive spokesperson for the candidate, in my opinion. That should be of concern to the Clinton campaign, and I believe it is.

I believe that's why Clinton recently invoked the "basket of deplorables" comment. She wants to remind people of what Trump really stands for when he's not reading somebody else's script and what they'll really be supporting if they vote for him. As controversial and risky as that comment was, and as much as the Trump campaign is trying to use it against her, I disagree with most of the pundits. I believe it was a good strategic move on Clinton's part and I personally don't object to her choosing to go non-PC and call a spade a spade.

Overall, I think Clinton has done a good job calling attention to some of the worst Trump statements and policy proposals. But, she and her campaign are strategically inconsistent and weak when it comes to real or manufactured Clinton scandals, in my opinion. They should know by now to get in front of anything that is under investigation and/or will likely come to the surface and own the narrative. Clinton instead holds back and is vague on those subjects until the next tidbit is released, which continues to make her seem untrustworthy to a lot of people outside her hard-core supporters (regardless of the fact that she's been more transparent than Trump).

Hillary Clinton lives under a microscope; it goes with the territory. Yet, she always seems so resentful of the attention and non-policy questions. That's annoying to me, in part because it casts a shadow over all the good she's done and what she has to offer (even though I understand why she's afraid that every move will be scrutinized and used against her by the Republicans). Assuming a defensive/offense posture so often backfires on her, but she keeps doing it. I don't know if she can change in that regard, but I hope so.

[Duchess]

The self righteous anger over the basket of deplorables comment is sickening. It disgusts me after everything that fat fuck has said and frankly, if it doesn't apply to you, you shouldn't have a problem with it because the fact is, it's true.

...and let me just remind people, she didn't apologize, she regretted using the word half. She owes no one an apology.

[sally]

So, as usual, she tried to hide it and the consequences of so doing are way worse than if she'd simply been forthcoming and announced that she and other campaign staff were sick.

It's annoying me that people are saying that. I believe her when she said that she didn't think it was a big deal and felt fine until she got out in the heat. Just because she didn't feel the need to tell the world she had pneumonia doesn't mean she was purposely hiding it. There may be many reasons not to trust her, but I don't think this situation is one of them. She felt good enough to go and then got sick from the heat. Big fucking deal.

[Blindgreed1]

So, as usual, she tried to hide it and the consequences of so doing are way worse than if she'd simply been forthcoming and announced that she and other campaign staff were sick.

It's annoying me that people are saying that. I believe her when she said that she didn't think it was a big deal and felt fine until she got out in the heat. Just because she didn't feel the need to tell the world she had pneumonia doesn't mean she was purposely hiding it. There may be many reasons not to trust her, but I don't think this situation is one of them. She felt good enough to go and then got sick from the heat. Big fucking deal.

I'm questioning her illness. The blue lenses in her glasses are often prescribed for photosensitive epileptic seizures. This isn't the first time she's hit the dirt during her campaign. Did she have pneumonia the last time she "fainted" too?

[sally]

I said a page back that it looked to me like she was having a seizure, but I'm not a doctor and you can't determine that just from a short video anyway. But it's also possible that she's just prone to heat exhaustion and the pneumonia made it worse. I've fainted several times from heat exhaustion since I was a kid, and exactly like she said as soon as you get some water and cool down you feel fine.

[HairOfTheDog]

So, as usual, she tried to hide it and the consequences of so doing are way worse than if she'd simply been forthcoming and announced that she and other campaign staff were sick.

It's annoying me that people are saying that. I believe her when she said that she didn't think it was a big deal and felt fine until she got out in the heat. Just because she didn't feel the need to tell the world she had pneumonia doesn't mean she was purposely hiding it. There may be many reasons not to trust her, but I don't think this situation is one of them. She felt good enough to go and then got sick from the heat. Big fucking deal.

I understand your point and your annoyance.

I thought it was silly that so much focus was placed on a coughing jag, which Clinton attributed to allergies.

And, I probably would have felt the same way about the 9 / 11 incident as you do if Clinton had ignored doctor's orders and carried on her busy schedule with a common cold or allergies or something like that.

But, Clinton's not an idiot -- she understands that pneumonia is serious if not treated, especially for older people. It was poor judgment to ignore her doctor's order and not to tell her surrogates about the diagnosis and her intent to keep her busy schedule anyway.

So, to me, taking that unnecessary health risk was again poor judgment (and it backfired), which is concerning for someone looking to lead the country. It's not a deal breaker, but it's part of what I see as an annoying pattern. Plus, she handed the Trump campaign a huge gift by handling it as she did.

[Blindgreed1]

I said a page back that it looked to me like she was having a seizure, but I'm not a doctor and you can't determine that just from a short video anyway. But it's also possible that she's just prone to heat exhaustion and the pneumonia made it worse. I've fainted several times from heat exhaustion since I was a kid, and exactly like she said as soon as you get some water and cool down you feel fine.

Hilary isn't known for her fashion sense (pantsuits) so I highly doubt she's wearing Zeiss Z1 lenses to make a fashion statement.

[Duchess]

Well, I don't want you to shut up

That's so nice of you to say. Thanks!

So...a little trivia. Today, which campaign manager, when asked pointed questions about their candidate's health, said, "I don't know why we need such extensive medical reporting when we all have the right to privacy".

[sally]

But, Clinton's not an idiot -- she understands that pneumonia is serious if not treated, especially for older people. It was poor judgment to ignore her doctor's order and not to tell her surrogates about the diagnosis and her intent to keep her busy schedule anyway.

Taking that unnecessary health risk was poor judgment (and it backfired, again), which is concerning to me for someone looking to lead the country. It's not a deal breaker, but it's part of what I see as an annoying pattern. Plus, she handed the Trump campaign a huge gift by handling it as she did.

It has nothing to do with being an idiot or not. When you feel fine you feel fine regardless of the doctors orders to rest or whether you're 20 or 70. She felt good enough to go and she was only doing what thousands of other people do everyday when they're sick, but still feel good enough to take care of their business. I've done it many times, but I've never had the entire country watching me if I happened to faint from a mild heat stroke. Which is partially why I said I felt sorry for her. It's not because she's under the weather, it's because she innocently did what people do everyday and now it cost her.

[HairOfTheDog]

I understand your point sally, I just disagree with you in this context.

If you, and all kinds of other adults, choose to ignore your doctor's orders and run around with non-contagious pneumonia, it's none of my business. I don't give a shit about your poor judgment in that context.

On the other hand.............if you wanted to be the leader of the U.S., you knew that if you were elected and you neglected your health that it could affect your ability to do the job (which affects hundreds of millions of people), you were keenly aware that there's already speculation that you've got some terrible disease and that perception could sway some people away from voting for you, you've had similar limp-noodle stumbling/dizzy episodes in the past.........it would be poor judgment for several reasons to ignore your doctor's orders when you were diagnosed with pneumonia. I think it's reasonable and rational for some voters to give a shit in that context.

[HairOfTheDog]

Well, I don't want you to shut up

That's so nice of you to say. Thanks!

So...a little trivia. Today, which campaign manager, when asked pointed questions about their candidate's health, said, "I don't know why we need such extensive medical reporting when we all have the right to privacy".

Kellyanne Conway?

[Duchess]

Kellyanne Conway?

Yes! Aha! It was amazing. She yapped & yapped about Hillary and transparency and when the subject switched to Trump and his health she came out with that! Ahahaha!

I really was thankful even though I laughed like the devil. I hope you get me.

[sally]

I'm not saying it wasn't bad judgment, my point was that I don't think she was being secretive about it as people are suggesting. To say this is just another example of her being deceitful is ridiculous. I don't think she felt like she was going to die and decided to try and hide it, I think she felt fine like she said and didn't think it was a big deal.

[Duchess]

She had a dilemma and I think there might have been a little damned if I do, damned if I don't going on.

There are those who think that when she isn't seen she is at home, that's not the case at all. I can't recall the exact number but in August alone she had around 32-35 engagements. She has been (mostly) on the road for the last year and a half. Weak, sickly people don't have schedules like that. She's worked her ass off. It's awful that she felt like she couldn't say she was sick. Those alt right freaks can kiss my ass.

Some of those same freaks are speculating she has a body double.

[HairOfTheDog]

I'm not saying it wasn't bad judgment, my point was that I don't think she was being secretive about it as people are suggesting. To say this is just another example of her being deceitful is ridiculous. I don't think she felt like she was going to die and decided to try and hide it, I think she felt fine like she said and didn't think it was a big deal.

I see where you're coming from.

In either case -- whether her decision to ignore her doctor's orders was due to ignorance/carelessness (as she essentially contends and you believe), or instead a desire to conceal her illness in order to avoid fueling the speculation that she lacks stamina/healthiness -- we agree it was poor judgment again.

It's the poor judgment and the perception it creates that annoys/concerns me about her more than anything else, regardless as to what drives it in each particular instance. You might be absolutely right about what drove the poor judgment in this instance, or it could be a combination of drivers.

I tend to agree with Duchess that she was in a dilemma. So, she deliberated the 'should I stay or should I go now' question, weighed the pros and cons, and chose to take a risk that backfired.

[sally]

I tend to agree with Duchess that she was in a dilemma. So, she deliberated the 'should I stay or should I go now' question, weighed the pros of cons, and chose to take a risk that backfired.

And the big deal about that is what? It wasn't even a risk because she says she felt fine, there was no cons to consider. She had a mild case of pneumonia that she had been taking antibiotics for so she wasn't even at risk of spreading it. I doubt she thought to herself "I feel perfectly fine, but if I happen to get overheated and pass out that might really cost me".

[Duchess]

I'm speculating here but I don't think she felt fine. I think she felt she could power through it. This wasn't just another speech or rally, this was a 911 memorial and she had to be there. Some people had been gossiping for quite some time about her health, her stamina, no matter that every single person alive gets sick, she couldn't. That's just what I think and I can understand why she tried to grind it out rather than listening to her Dr.'s recommendations.

[sally]

She said she felt fine, I guess it was just another lie.