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I watched the replay of the VP debate late last night. It was more interesting than I'd expected.
I thought Pence was smoother -- his previous broadcast career shows -- and he came across like the establishment conservative politician he is. He put forth positions that are absolutely not those put forth publicly by Donald Trump (on immigration, on Russia, on NATO...) and denied over and over what Donald Trump has said and done. He lied a lot. That's gonna hurt later. I'm gonna look for the fact check of the debate when it's available and won't be surprised if Pence made false claims at least 50% the time. Sadly, many people seem not to care about fact and truth anymore (and even resent such realities, oddly enough). But, I still think more people -- especially Independents who aren't defensive of a party -- do care and Pence's lies will be used against the Trump ticket by the Clinton campaign in coming days.
I kept thinking Mike Pence seemed more to be serving himself last night than serving the Trump ticket; he would not or could not defend Trump's platform statements when pushed to do so; he just deflected to Clinton and Obama over and over and over. I don't think he helped Trump much, if at all, because Trump needs women and minorities and young people and Pence pushed the exact establishment conservative points which drive so many of them away. But, I don't think Pence hurt Trump by helping elevate himself for a future bid and I'm sure he made a lot of established Republican politicians happy.
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Tim Kaine interrupted a lot -- too much, I thought. That was kind of annoying as a viewer. He was calling bullshit as it was spewed, rather than waiting his turn.
Kaine seemed to be there 100% for Hillary Clinton, not for himself. He's not as smooth as Pence for sure and I see people saying he lost the debate, but I disagree (though I expected him to lose because he'd never come across as confrontational or strong to me the few times I'd seen him speak previously).
On polished style alone, I agree Kaine lost to Pence. But, on substance and helping the ticket to regain and attract more Independents, I think Kaine won big time. Clinton's positions on immigration enforcement, law enforcement, abortion, foreign policy, and social issues were well articulated by Kaine last night and I think those positions align more with up-for-grab voters than the positions of either Trump or Pence. Plus, I'm positive Kaine told the truth a lot more often than Pence.
The moderator was effin' awful, in my opinion. I though Lester Holt did a good job with the first presidential debate. And, I suspect Anderson Cooper will do well on Sunday night with the second one. Last night, Elaine Quijano proved to me that she was not in their league (yet).
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(10-05-2016, 09:46 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Tim Kaine interrupted a lot -- too much, I thought.
I thought so too and I also realized I don't like seeing him in an aggressive role. He's Dad!
I'm finally having a chance to do a little reading and I'm seeing a lot of chat about Pence benefiting himself rather than Trump and that he couldn't defend the indefensible, many are saying he did a great job, a much better job than Trump and all are wondering how Donald is taking that given he's not supposed to upstage Trump. 
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(10-05-2016, 03:43 AM)Carsman Wrote: After seeing the VP debate last night, I wish Pence was running for Grand Poobah, instead of the Donald!
(10-05-2016, 04:54 AM)Duchess Wrote:
Do you know what he stands for, Cars? He's no better than fuckface.
(10-05-2016, 07:59 AM)Carsman Wrote: (10-05-2016, 04:54 AM)Duchess Wrote:
Do you know what he stands for, Cars? He's no better than fuckface.
Is your opinion the only one that counts? He (fuckface II as you refer) stands for many things I agree with, but unlike Donald, Pence is calm, reserved, respectful, and more diplomatic then the Donald will/can ever be. Pence has the political experience and reserve to effectively deal with world leaders way better then Donald any day of the week!
(Flash polls taken right after the debate, indicated Pence won!)
(10-05-2016, 08:07 AM)Duchess Wrote: (10-05-2016, 07:59 AM)Carsman Wrote: Is your opinion the only one that counts?
Of course not, why would you say that? I've said, ad nauseam, that people are entitled to their opinions and I encourage everyone to post 'em up. I don't ever surround myself with like minded people because I would be bored silly. Just because I don't agree with you does not mean you are not entitled to your own thoughts for fuckssake.
I say that because I can!
Carsman: Loves Living Large
Home is where you're treated the best, but complain the most!
Life is short, make the most of it, get outta here!
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You could just write in Woody Allen if not for anything but he is porking an Asian chick -3X his age. That may be just as simple.
He ain't heavy, he's my brother.
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(10-05-2016, 09:46 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Tim Kaine interrupted a lot --
Seems to be a general strategy for Democratic VP nominees.
Biden did the same thing to Ryan in 2012. Unlike Pence, Ryan let it fluster him.
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(10-05-2016, 07:17 PM)Carsman Wrote: I say that because I can!
Mmm'k
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(10-06-2016, 04:40 AM)cannongal Wrote: (10-05-2016, 09:46 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Tim Kaine interrupted a lot --
Seems to be a general strategy for Democratic VP nominees.
Biden did the same thing to Ryan in 2012. Unlike Pence, Ryan let it fluster him.
I think it's sometimes a strategy for political candidates from any party, depending on their outcome goals.
I've seen a few interviews with Mike Pence over the last couple of days. He seems smart and well-spoken; the complete opposite of Trump in style and, in many cases, in views. I think Pence was a very good VP choice by the Trump team in terms of lending some legitimacy to Trump. Pence is an established conservative Republican, which is what most Trump supporters say they don't want, but which the Republican establishment desperately wants.
I don't know if Kaine was a great VP choice for Clinton or not. He's a little awkward, but he strikes me as sincere and passionate when it comes to policy and serving his candidate. Pence doesn't strike me as either. He seems programmed and insincere in his statements supporting Donald Trump's views and statements, often instead denying them and revising them entirely.
Pence's stances on gay rights, refugee assistance, and women's rights to choose are so very far right. Personally, I'd take Paul Ryan or Tim Kaine over Mike Pence any day and twice on Sundays.
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(10-06-2016, 09:52 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: (10-06-2016, 04:40 AM)cannongal Wrote: (10-05-2016, 09:46 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Tim Kaine interrupted a lot --
Seems to be a general strategy for Democratic VP nominees.
Biden did the same thing to Ryan in 2012. Unlike Pence, Ryan let it fluster him.
I think it's sometimes a strategy for political candidates from any party, depending on their outcome goals.
I've seen a few interviews with Mike Pence over the last couple of days. He seems smart and well-spoken; the complete opposite of Trump in style and, in many cases, in views. I think Pence was a very good VP choice by the Trump team in terms of lending some legitimacy to Trump. Pence is an established conservative Republican, which is what most Trump supporters say they don't want, but which the Republican establishment desperately wants.
I don't know if Kaine was a great VP choice for Clinton or not. He's a little awkward, but he strikes me as sincere and passionate when it comes to policy and serving his candidate. Pence doesn't strike me as either. He seems programmed and insincere in his statements supporting Donald Trump's views and statements, often instead denying them and revising them entirely.
Pence's stances on gay rights, refugee assistance, and women's rights to choose are so very far right. Personally, I'd take Paul Ryan or Tim Kaine over Mike Pence any day and twice on Sundays.
Amen....Sister, well said.......
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(10-06-2016, 02:32 PM)blueberryhill Wrote: Amen....Sister, well said.......
BH! So nice to see you! Finally! HotD is going to be so relieved. We missed you!
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I am really relieved to see you, blueberry!
We hadn't seen you since your move several months back and I was concerned about you. Thanks so much for checking in.
If/when you have some time, I'd love to read an update in your Life and Times thread.
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 Welcome back!
He ain't heavy, he's my brother.
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(10-04-2016, 08:21 PM)sally Wrote: I already said I'm not voting, but healthcare is one of the reasons I'd vote against her. People are sick of giving all their money to insurance companies and she just wants to go with the same thing and make it look like she's improving Obamacare when she's not going to do a fucking thing but tweak it while still making the insurance companies happy. I think that's hurting her and I also think her large increase in allowing Syrian refugees in is hurting her. Those are two things people really care about, more so than Trump's taxes. I still think he's going to take it.
One month until this strange election cycle ends and we know who will be leading the country. Well, 31 days to be exact.
Yeah, healthcare and immigration are issues which are likely deterring some voters from Clinton. There are probably a fair number of conservative independents in particular who are leery of voting for another Democratic term (or for Clinton personally).
Sunday night is debate 2 between Trump and Clinton. Given what's going down in your state, gotta think that climate change perspectives, how the candidates would handle disaster relief, and such will be addressed.
I hope the storm passes soon with no deaths or major injuries and less infrastructure and utility damage than expected. But, I imagine the campaigns are very concerned about how the storm will affect the ability to vote in Florida, which typically plays a big role in the general election outcome. Clinton only leads by 3 there in current polls, so it's still anybody's prize.
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(10-07-2016, 08:36 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: One month until this strange election cycle ends and we know who will be leading the country. Yes, it will be Hillary Clinton. The karmic universe already filled the idiot/buffoon president quota with the Bushes.
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Some old audio of Trump came out today. It's Trump being Trump, he talks about grabbing women by their pussy, his word, not mine, talks about hitting on a married woman, in general, just being seriously vulgar about women, etc. None of that surprises me, what I'm getting a kick out of is that Paul Ryan is going to be campaigning with him tomorrow. HaHaFuckinHa you blood thirsty vampire fuck. You deserve every uncomfortable moment. God I hope I get to watch.
Man. This election.
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(10-07-2016, 07:47 PM)Duchess Wrote:
Some old audio of Trump came out today. It's Trump being Trump, he talks about grabbing women by their pussy, his word, not mine, talks about hitting on a married woman, in general, just being seriously vulgar about women, etc. None of that surprises me, what I'm getting a kick out of is that Paul Ryan is going to be campaigning with him tomorrow. HaHaFuckinHa you blood thirsty vampire fuck. You deserve every uncomfortable moment. God I hope I get to watch.
Man. This election.
Not much shocks me; I've basically heard it all. But, Trump bragging about how he can just physically do whatever he wants to married women or single women or any woman anywhere, without consent, because he's 'a star' and can get away with it, is just gross to my ears.
And, while you're right that no one should be surprised that Trump is a sexist at this point, keep in mind that evangelical support is one of the reasons Trump is even still in the race. This is worse than insulting women's appearances, as some of the religious right seems to have been able to overlook. This is him bragging about infidelity and making uninvited physical sexual moves on any woman he finds attractive. He just alienated a bunch of evangelical women and men, I strongly expect.
What he is caught on hot mic saying this time will be indefensible to true evangelicals. In my opinion, it's a big deal in terms of his candidacy viability. I don't think even Mike Pence will try to claim Trump didn't say what he clearly said or try to put some positive or minimizing spin on it in this case -- if he does, he's not as smart and self-serving as I thought he was.
And, Trump's public response deflecting to Bill Clinton saying worse things to him on the golf course is lame. Even if Bill Clinton really did say vulgar things on the golf course in private, Bill Clinton didn't say them to a television interviewer and Bill Clinton isn't his opponent in this race, Hillary Clinton is.
The interviewer's (Billy Bush) hot mic comments and kiss-ass attitude towards Trump makes him look like a complete asswipe right along with Trump.
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Your brain broke!
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Presidential Debate 2 (Town Hall)
It will be going down in two hours. 
I don't believe that there's any way in hell Trump is going to be able to win over the number of up-for-grabs (figurative) women he needs at this point. I think the percentage of women who are willing to get behind Trump will, by far, remain the dwindling minority even if he makes another and better apology tonight.
I think it would be smarter for Trump to write the female vote off and try to grab some of the pissed off Bernie men and young people, rather than focusing on defending his conduct with women by deflecting to Bill Clinton's infidelities and Hillary Clinton's handling of them. He has, however, threatened to put the Clintons on trial in that regards, and I'm sure Hillary will be armed and ready for him to go there.
Trump has an opportunity to appeal to Bernie supporters with Hillary's leaked Wall Street comments which FAHQTOO referenced in the 'Trump for President' thread today. I think he'll attempt to exploit that opportunity tonight; he'd be a fool not to use that against her in terms of policy and honesty perception. The hacked/leaked transcript that came out a few days ago confirms what Bernie said about her having a different message for the bankers than she had for the public. She's made misleading statements about that to the media and the American people (or instead to the bankers?), so it's an opening for Trump.
I'm curious to see if Trump will be able to stay on message and really hammer out detailed trade policies and put forth a student debt option effectively enough to pull a sizable portion of Independent and young voters his way. I'm also anxious to see whether Clinton's strategy tonight focuses more on the issues, or instead on disqualifying Trump in the eyes of voters based on character/temperament.
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Trump holding that press conference with women from Bill's past and her past ahead of the debate was really weird, to me.
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