The Crying Game / TRANSGENDER DISCUSSION

[username]

No potty talk about North Carolina's transgender bathroom law? You have to use the bathroom that matches your birth certificate?

And in California, we have decided that all single bathrooms must now be man or woman (co-ed). I'm not real happy about that. At least now when I go in a men's room I know to walk carefully and hover over the seat versus sitting. Men are pigs...they better have good bathroom attendants, that's all I've got to say. On the plus side, I HAVE used men's rooms because some women take so fucking long so at least I won't get weird looks when I come out of one anymore.

On the transgender thing...I dunno about that. If what appears to be a man walks in to a communal bathroom of women he/she is going to get a lot of looks and questions such as..."what the fuck are you doing in here"? I think the same would be true if a person who looked like a woman walked in to a men's locker room. I think they have to be a little more specific (like where the person is in the change process) or just scrap the stupid law altogether. As some talking head said, it's a law to address a problem that hasn't happened. I heard one guy yammering on about how one day, one of these transgender people was going to molest someone in a bathroom....Happens every day by straight people.

[Duchess]

I don't think I'd have a problem sharing a bathroom with a transgender. Chances are I wouldn't even know it. Personally, I think the people making a stink about it have made it perverted in their own minds, it's all in their heads.

[username]

I don't think I'd have a problem sharing a bathroom with a transgender. Chances are I wouldn't even know it. Personally, I think the people making a stink about it have made it perverted in their own minds, it's all in their heads.

Exactly....again, I suppose it depends on where they are in the physical transition process (if they're undergoing that) would tell but...the idea (that's not at all supported by facts or numbers) that transgenders are suddenly going to start molesting people in bathrooms or locker rooms, above and beyond what the current bathroom molestation rate is, is just ludicrous. There's no data to support it.

One transgender person I read about actually had her (I believe) gender changed on her birth certificate. Didn't know you could do that.

[sally]

It's not the idea that transgenders are going to suddenly start molesting people in the bathrooms, it's the idea that heterosexual men can now claim they are transgenders and go in the women's restroom just to perv on women and little girls. Now are all the perverted men in the world going to go through the trouble to pretend to be transgender just so they can get a free pass into the women's room? Probably not, but I'm sure there will be a few.

[username]

It's not the idea that transgenders are going to suddenly start molesting people in the bathrooms, it's the idea that heterosexual men can now claim they are transgenders and go in the women's restroom just to perv on women and little girls. Now are all the perverted men in the world going to go through the trouble to pretend to be transgender just so they can get a free pass into the women's room? Probably not, but I'm sure there will be a few.

If a man "pretending to be transgender" walks into a woman's room he's going to have every woman's attention and I don't think they're going to let their little girls play around "HER" just because she claims to be transgender.






Like I said before, if you don't look the part, people are likely to either politely say "excuse me, I think you're in the wrong restroom" or "what the fuck are you doing in here"? Either way, radars are going up.

[HairOfTheDog]

Richard Simmons has been the subject of much concern since he basically fell off the map almost three years ago. There's been a lot of speculation that he lost his marbles, that he's being controlled and fleeced by his housekeeper, that he's majorly depressed...

The National Enquirer now claims to have the real scoop. According to the paper, Simmons has been undergoing gender transformation and now identifies as a woman named "Fiona".


^ A picture of Simmons a few years back

I don't know if it's true or not. Either way, I hope Simmons is okay. He's a fruit loop, but he always seemed like a nice person to me.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ushome/index.html

[Maggot]

The plumbing business will be able to install urinals in all bathrooms now and women's sports teams will have an edge on those pesky men's teams. Its a great way to invigorate the economy. Also women will be able to go to the mens room if the line is long at concerts.

We need a Masters & Johnson dance.

[HairOfTheDog]

Strange Days...

Prison officials in California have been fighting against state-funded sex reassignment surgery for inmates diagnosed with gender dysphoria for years.

But, they've lost the battle in the courts where it's been ruled that the 8^th amendment mandates such medical treatment. The first $100,000 court-mandated surgery has just been completed. And, the inmate happens to be a convicted murderer.



^ Shiloh Heavenly Quine, 57, and an accomplice kidnapped and fatally shot Shahid Ali Baig, a 33-year-old father of three, in downtown Los Angeles in February 1980, stealing $80 and his car during a drug- and alcohol-fueled rampage.

The daughter of Quine's victim said she objects to inmates getting taxpayer-funded surgery that is not readily available to non-criminals, regardless of the cost.

'My dad begged for his life,' said Farida Baig, who tried unsuccessfully to block Quine's surgery through the courts. 'It just made me dizzy and sick. I'm helping pay for his surgery. I live in California. It's kind of like a slap in the face', she added.

Quine will now be moved to a women's prison in San Francisco. Quine's case has also prompted a federal magistrate to require California to provide transgender female inmates housed in men's facilities with clothing and commissary items ranging from nightgowns to necklaces.

Kris Hayashi, executive director of the Transgender Law Center, which represents Quine and other transgender inmates, heralded the settlement as a victory. 'For too long, institutions have ignored doctors and casually dismissed medically necessary and life-saving care for transgender people just because of who we are,' he said

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ia-funds-1^st-US-inmate-sex-reassignment.html

[Duchess]

It's kind of like a slap in the face'

It is a slap in the face. What the hell kind of bullshit is that. I don't pay taxes there but it makes me feel pissy that anyone's tax dollars would be spent in that manner. That's a goddamn courtesy to a murderer.

[sally]

Meanwhile there are children being denied lifesaving surgeries.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Fucking california....jesus

[Maggot]

It only take one. One person.

[HairOfTheDog]

It's way more than one state or one person in play here.

It's emerging medical designations and recommended treatments for gender identification issues, globally. And, when it comes to inmates in the U.S., it's a matter of how that fits into the 8^th Amendment's prohibition against “deliberate indifference to serious medical needs of prisoners” under the "cruel and unusual" clause.

Sadly, the U.S. doesn't guarantee all citizens adequate health care as a Constitutional right. But, it does for inmates via Supreme Court ruling in Estelle vs. Gamble. So, whether it's a bad heart, bad knees, a brain tumor, gender dysphoria............inmates are guaranteed treatment whereas some law-abiding citizens are denied treatment due to finances, insurance companies, lack of access to specialists...

Anyway, a federal district judge made the call ordering the state to provide the surgery given the severity of the prisoner's condition; the state officials fought it.

[HairOfTheDog]

A couple of years back, a different judge made the same ruling in regards to another convicted murderer in CA. Governor Brown agreed to his/her parole rather than obeying the court order for the sex reassignment surgery. That's also what corrections officials did in a similar case in Virginia back in 2013; paroled the felon.

I'm sure military prison officials would like to do the same with Chelsea/Bradley Manning, but she's got six years left until she's eligible for parole from the all-male military prison in Kansas and it's more difficult to deny re-assignment surgery now that it's covered under military insurance. Manning's lawyer reports officials have agreed to the surgery (but no time line has been given).

And, recently, a Massachusetts court found that sex reassignment was the only adequate treatment for a prisoner and mandated the surgery, again citing the 8^th Amendment. The state corrections department appealed and lost. But, then a higher appellate court overruled the decision and sided with the state's corrections officials. So, the inmate (also a convicted murderer) continues to attempt suicide and self-castration despite receiving hormone therapy.

Kinda complex.

[Ski at 1SKY6]

It's way more than one state or one person in play here.

Hair0fTheDog, its way, way, more than one state or one person in play here.
As a gay man I have a perspective about gender dysphoria that others might not agree with. I feel Society has pressured gay men and women to hide their true selves and this causes emotional trauma. In the past Society has offered Solutions of shock treatments to make you straight. Some gay people have resorted to getting married to the opposite sex in order to create the illusion of being heterosexual. Some have even believed that by arranging everything externally it will make things change on the inside of their being. As Society changes to accept homosexual love these behaviors are diminishing. Society's acceptance of same sexual orientation has made great progress whereas its acceptance of gender dysphoria still is in the Dark Ages.
When Society stops creating rigid rolls that men and women must play, such as "men don't cry" and we stop dressing "Boys in blue and Girls in pink" and these rolls become more androgynous, and equal, gender dysphoria is destined to become a thing of the past.
I have witnessed firsthand the agony and distress an individual close to me has gone through with gender dysphoria and it's my firm belief that it is created by Society and its remedies are external of the individual and and not incumbent upon the individual to appease Society by making changes to their physical form.

[HairOfTheDog]

I have witnessed firsthand the agony and distress an individual close to me has gone through with gender dysphoria and it's my firm belief that it is created by Society and its remedies are external of the individual and and not incumbent upon the individual to appease Society by making changes to their physical form.[/size]

I'm not following you.

Regardless of the severity of the condition or treatment recommendation (non-surgical cosmetics, hormones, and sex reassignment surgery in severe cases), I've not heard anyone with gender dysphoria indicate that societal appeasement is what motivates their desire/need to alter their physical appearance to more closely reflect their internal gender identification.

I've heard the opposite consistently -- that they instead feel pressured by society to repress or alter their thoughts and feelings to align with their physical gender at birth, which they say is extremely depressing (and, for some, impossible).

[Duchess]

I'm not sure why any of us are even supposed to care about a convict and their emotional well being. I don't give a shit about most people let alone someone convicted of murder. The fact that an inmate has access to better care than someone who is a law abiding citizen is appalling.

[Clang McFly]

Hmmm....*takes notes*

1. Commit crime.
2. Go to prison
3. Try to avoid butt rape
4. Easier access to becoming a woman.

Its nice to have goals again.

[HairOfTheDog]

I'm not sure why any of us are even supposed to care about a convict and their emotional well being. I don't give a shit about most people let alone someone convicted of murder. The fact that an inmate has access to better care than someone who is a law abiding citizen is appalling.

I don't sense that anyone here is suggesting that anyone else is supposed to care about the emotional well-being of convicts (murderers, no less). I don't care much about that.

My point is that this isn't an issue of one state or one individual setting a precedent, as Six and Mags alluded. The handling of trans people has been a problem in prisons across the country (and in other countries) for a long time.

Now that more trans people are coming out and more medical professionals are classifying reassignment surgery as life-saving treatment for people with severe cases of gender dysphoria, some prisoners are demanding the surgery.

The judges and courts may not care about those prisoners' emotional well-being either, but that's irrelevant. They have to hear the cases and make impartial rulings about what constitutes "adequate health care" by considering constitutional law, case law, and the evidence (including the doctors' recommendations).

I think access to adequate health care should be a constitutional right for all U.S. citizens. But, it's not.........so, it's also been a fact for a long time that criminals in state/federal-custody have better medical care than many law-abiding citizens.

[Duchess]

I don't want those people to be helped in such a generous way. I feel like it's an incredible gift to give them.

When I said "care" I meant insofar as the prisoner's feelings, their state of mind. I don't think they are deserving of that consideration. I care about the feelings of those that I like and respect and I take that into consideration because they are worthwhile.

Meh. Still feelin' like I've fallen down the rabbit hole.