TAX REFORM

[Maggot]

I see it goes back to the house. I believe it goes through. Hopefully before Christmas.

[Duchess]

I believe it goes through. Hopefully before Christmas.

Have I been wrong all these years in thinking you are fiscally conservative?

[HairOfTheDog]

By most accounts this tax bill is a baldfaced stripmining by the wealthy and corporate donors at the expense of the working class and elderly. No wonder Wall Street loves these guys. They're fully paid for.

I read it was a big kiss to the donor class.

There is no doubt that the tax reform legislation will benefit the richest people (including the donor class, which threatened to back away from the GOP if this legislation isn't passed), for at least a generation. The permanent tax cuts go to the rich. The time-limited cuts go to most everyone else; we ultimately pay for all those big tax breaks to corporations, billionaire donors, and their heirs.

The GOP leaders argue that the temporary tax cuts for everyone else will ultimately be extended, claiming that they only made those cuts 'temporary' in order to stay under $1.5 trillion in additional deficits over the next 10 years (as required by the Byrd rule).

They also assert that whomever runs for office in 2024 will be under pressure to extend the 2018 cut-rates to avoid voter backlash. And, they claim there won't REALLY be additional deficit by that time anyway since GDP growth will pay for the deficit. However, they can't quantify or back up that claim.

What they're telling us is to ignore Congress's own non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) analysis and score and instead bank on wishful thinking.

The JCT analysis and score was finished just before the Senate vote was taken. It disputes the GOP Senate's claims that the tax cuts will pay for themselves via GDP growth. The JCT issued a 'dynamic score', meaning it took into account economic stimulus and growth..............and still, the tax cuts result in a net $1 trillion in deficit in the federal budget over the next 10 years.

Unemployment has been low for several years now. Corporate profits have been healthy for several years now. The tax code is complex, but it could have been simplified without increasing the deficit through massive tax cuts. This is a tax cut bill, not a tax reform bill.

There is no reason that this legislation is being passed now aside from partisan political gain and securing GOP donor contributions, in my opinion.

[HairOfTheDog]

http://www.crfb.org/blogs/official-dynam...1-trillion

[Duchess]

This is a tax cut bill, not a tax reform bill.

I saw it reported that trump wanted it called a tax cut, he believed that people didn't quite understand what reform meant and "a cut" was easier for them to grasp.

A mistake that he consistently makes is that he thinks he's smarter than everyone, he's not. I don't ever see much intellect out of him regardless of him saying he has the best brain and the best words.

[HairOfTheDog]

This is a tax cut bill, not a tax reform bill.

I saw it reported that trump wanted it called a tax cut, he believed that people didn't quite understand what reform meant and "a cut" was easier for them to grasp.

A mistake that he consistently makes is that he thinks he's smarter than everyone, he's not. I don't ever see much intellect out of him regardless of him saying he has the best brain and the best words.

Yeah, I saw Trump say that he was calling it a 'cut' because it's easier to understand and it reduces everybody's rates EXCEPT his own and his rich friends. That's utter bullshit, of course.

But, I personally consider it a tax cut bill rather than a tax reform bill because it does not significantly simplify the codes and does not make tax policy more fair.

So, I agree with Trump's label, but not for the same reason. I think most people get what's going on here and aren't excited about the promise of a few thousand more dollars in their pockets for a few years........only to pay more later and potentially be facing a national economic crisis as the debt and deficit spending increase.

I don't think Trump's base (the donors and the voter loyalists) care at all about looking a few years down the road though. The billionaire donors will be rolling in dough no matter what happens to everyone else and the loyalist voters just believe whatever Trump tells them.

However, there might be plenty of true fiscally conservative voters who feel betrayed by this legislation and let their Republican representatives know about it when they go to vote in the congressional mid term elections next year.

I expect the Democrats will be all over that. And, I imagine they'll be warning voters of the potential for Republicans in congress to come back in a couple of years and attempt to cut Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security to pay for shortfalls in revenue resulting from the tax cuts.

[Duchess]

Yeah, I saw Trump say that he was calling it a 'cut' because it's easier to understand and it reduces everybody's rates EXCEPT his own and his rich friends. That's utter bullshit, of course.

Of course it's bullshit.

It's been challenging some days to always remember that he's not talking to me when he spews his unbelievable crap, he's talking to his base and his base alone. He knows they are the only people who either believe him and think everyone else is lying to them or they don't care that they are being lied to.

[BigMark]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-gdp-gro...1511962566

[HairOfTheDog]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-gdp-gro...1511962566

I read that article Biggie. How do you see it relating to tax reform / tax cuts?

The U.S. economy is running at its full potential for the first time in a decade, a new milestone for an expansion now in its ninth year. -- from the article.

We know that the economy improved steadily under Obama's eight years, following the Bush tax cuts and recession.

Personally, I give Trump credit for likely boosting the level of continuous growth over the last year -- optimism and economic promises. His presidency to date hasn't fucked fuck up the positive economic trend and probably even boosted it.

But, tax cuts to corporations doesn't mean that companies are going to increase wages further or invest in technology and personnel development. Some of the biggest corps have publicly admitted they'll pay out more in dividends to stockholders instead.

And, even the most right-leaning experts see the tax cuts resulting in hundreds of billions in debt increases over the next decade, after having considered this recent GDP growth and projecting future GDP growth into the equation.

I'm not being snarky. I'm seriously curious as to how you see what you posted as relating to the topic at hand.

[BigMark]

It's politics, I feel you have a negative slant on things and just showing you and Donovan will probably survive tomorrow.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yeah, I'm a real negative Nancy here Biggie.

I give Trump credit where I see it being due. No problem. And, I don't worry about dudes like you getting all twisted when I post facts and analysis that may reflect negatively on Trump and company.

You seem to have a problem differentiating between factual and realistic vs. 'negative'; lack of objectivity. That's not a problem for me either.

Anyway, as I already said in this very thread........I hope the tax cuts actually do pay for themselves as Trump and the GOP claim, despite all analysis and projections to the contrary. The best experts, even the most right-leaning, don't see it happening. But, it's not impossible.

P.s. I've never expressed or implied a fear for my survival. That's an idiotic supposition on your part. Gloria Gaynor's got nothing on my ass.

[BigMark]

Or just being facetious, how idiotic of me.

[HairOfTheDog]

Or just being facetious, how idiotic of me.

Being facetious about your own feelings -- clever twist Biggie!

In appreciation of your ingenuity, I gift you Miss Gloria...............live from Mandelay Day.



Turn it up loud and sing it proud!

[BigMark]

What would I do without your smart mouth?
Drawing me in, and you kicking me out
You've got my head spinning, no kidding, I can't pin you down
What's going on in that beautiful mind
I'm on your magical mystery ride
And I'm so dizzy, don't know what hit me, but I'll be alright
My head's under water
But I'm breathing fine
You're crazy and I'm out of my mind
'Cause all of me
Loves all of you
Love your curves and all your edges
All your perfect imperfections
Give your all to me
I'll give my all to you
You're my end and my beginning
Even when I lose I'm winning
'Cause I give you all of me
And you give me all of you, oh oh
How many times do I have to tell you
Even when you're crying you're beautiful too
The world…

[HairOfTheDog]

You're verbally sexually assaulting me right here on Mock, I just know it Biggie!!! It's very taxing.

#MeToo

[Duchess]

John wrote that song for Chrissy. Mark, are you a romantic?

[BigMark]

something with an antic in it!

[HairOfTheDog]

something with an antic in it!

What?! Don't be all coy, boy.

I think Duchess is right. You're a romantic, not an internet sex pest.

I'm all apologies for being negative and missing that about you Biggie.

[Maggot]

I'm a bit of an Optimist. So I picture B.M. living this song, to me he is a free spirit and in this day and age he's a bit refreshing in a way but in all reality I bet I could run him over in a crosswalk and call it a speed bump, at least until I went to court and got a 60 day suspended sentence.

[BigMark]