GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, OR DO THEY?

[BigMark]

You should have seen the chick making love to a blunderbuss.

[Duchess]

It's very unnerving to know people like that have weapons. I don't think they are exhibiting well adjusted behavior. I don't expect people to have or share MY standards and I know sane people can look like monsters but some of this shit is just too much. They look looney tunes and their behavior reinforces my perception.

[F.U.]

Ok, I guess I just cant win anymore. I just finished up a conversation with a old friend and some of his friend. Well, long story short. One of his friends ended up pissed at me because I wasn't going far enough with gun safety. She just kept saying ban them all. And gunshow loophole. And the other side was pissed at me because I brought up the subject of soldiers and mental illnesses. He kept yelling that we should not "build" a law that encompasses our soldiers after they return. I just don't get it. I cant agree with anyone anymore. Both sides disagree with me now.

[Duchess]

The NRA has been a foil, to me, for years. It's not incident-specific, it's systemic.

They've given multi-millions of dollars to some politicians (Trump, Rubio, Scott, McCain...) to support their stances; stances which help gun manufacturers make as much money as possible.

So today Georgia lawmakers passed a bill to punish Delta for rescinding their discounts to NRA members. How is that even legal? I'd love to see Delta give 'em a little slap back and move and take the millions they put into that economy.

[Jimbone]

Dicks sporting goods move was great, they stopped selling guns to anyone under 21 and stopped selling AR-15's They realized that their buyers under 21 were rare and that they hardly sold AR-15's. Which was relegated to the far back of the store. They are now expecting an influx of people buying boots and outdoor wear to compensate for the low sales of either. Capitalism at its finest! Congrats Dicks! Walmart was soon the next large chain to announce no gun sales to anyone under 21 after Dicks move. I say good for them.

Dick's AR-15 announcement was PR. They stopped selling AR-15's in their stores after Sandy Hook. They continued to sell them in their Field & Stream brand locations, which there are about 30 I think. That's where they have stopped selling them now - the larger brand (Dick's) with hundreds of locations has been out of the AR-15 business for a few years.

Companies can choose to make whatever decision they want, I applaud them for their convictions.

[HairOfTheDog]

So today Georgia lawmakers passed a bill to punish Delta for rescinding their discounts to NRA members. How is that even legal? I'd love to see Delta give 'em a little slap back and move and take the millions they put into that economy.

I don't know if it's legal or not. But, it strikes me as ill-conceived government intervention into business.

Delta is a private company. They can offer discounts to organizations if they want, and discontinue those discounts if they want.

It would make way more sense and be more appropriate for the NRA to fight its own battles and encourage offended NRA members to boycott Delta.

But sense and appropriateness seem to be in shorter supply in politics as of late.

[pyropappy]

I would like to point out, my Colt AR 15 was manufactured in the 70's, and in the past 40+ years of existence, it has killed less people than Ted Kennedy.

[sally]

But more than Ted Bundy.

I'd probably keep that shit on the down low, Pappy.

[pyropappy]

But more than Ted Bundy.

I'd probably keep that shit on the down low, Pappy.

???

Ted Kennedy killed one, Mary Jo Kopechne, so less than one is zero. Ted Bundy killed at least 30, that would be more than zero as well. Guess math isn't your strong suit

[pyropappy]

BTW, my brother is the serial killer, not me. Only God knows how many deaths he is responsible for. Probably in the hundreds at least.

[Midwest Spy]

BTW, my brother is the serial killer, not me. Only God knows how many deaths he is responsible for. Probably in the hundreds at least.

My step-brother was a sniper in the Marine Corps during the first Gulf War.

I’ve never asked him about it, don’t really want to know.

Not sure how you live with yourself afterward.

I understand it’s war, obviously, and it’s kill or be killed.

It explains why so many of our young men come home with psychological/emotional issues.

[pyropappy]

My step-brother was a sniper in the Marine Corps during the first Gulf War.

I’ve never asked him about it, don’t really want to know.

Not sure how you live with yourself afterward.

I understand it’s war, obviously, and it’s kill or be killed.

It explains why so many of our young men come home with psychological/emotional issues.

I can tell you this for fact, my brother has 4 separate and distinct personalities: loving family man, professional soldier, party animal and sub human predator. When the latter's cage gets unlocked may God have mercy on the terrorist he is after.

That is how they cope, or they blow their brains out.

[HairOfTheDog]

So much reality show type idiocy and wishy-washy inconsistency going on in this administration.

Trump supported a ban on assault-type rifles....... before he became a presidential candidate and won the support and $30million contributions from the NRA.

As a candidate, he then courted and stroked gun enthusiasts, criticized gun control, and referred to the NRA as the greatest of patriots.

Two days ago, following the latest school massacre by a teen with an AR15, he met with Democrat and Republican congresspersons and expressed his support of gun control measures like raising the minimum purchase age to 21 and confiscation of guns from some people without due process. He declared he's not afraid to go up against the NRA and also requested that Dianne Feinstein add a ban on assault-style rifles to the draft bill. All of this was televised.

Then....last night, Trump and Pence met with NRA lobbyists again. And, today, NRA lobbyist Chris Cox is actually speaking for the President and the Vice President, which is pretty telling and troubling in itself.

Cox stated that the President and Vice President don't support gun control, in complete contradiction to Trump's own words only two days ago.

Huckabee-Sanders says the President's stance on gun control hasn't changed. It would be nice to know which version of his stances she's referring to.

The White House really needs to clarify the official stance, in writing.

Ref: https://twitter.com/ChrisCoxNRA

[Maggot]

He DID learn something from Obama!

[HairOfTheDog]

Obama's stance on gun control never changed as far as I can see, Mags.

As a candidate in 2008, he declared that he respected the Second Amendment, he wanted the background checks strengthened and extended to gun show transactions, and he supported a ban on assault-type rifles.

Obama stated the same positions during his 2012 reelection campaign.

As a President, he failed to accomplish those goals, though he pushed hard to get them enacted in his second term.

Some people say Obama should have tried to push through his gun control agenda early on when Dems had majority in both the House and Senate. Maybe they're right and he could have succeeded. But, he may not have had the votes since several red-state Dems weren't on board. In any case, Obama failed to accomplish his long-standing gun control agenda and he owns that.

Some of the gun control measures that Trump supported on Wednesday and immediately following the Stoneman Douglas school massacre are the same as what Obama always supported. If that's what you meant by Trump learning from Obama, you may be right.

[HairOfTheDog]

Florida Gun Control Bill Passes

Since it once again seems that nothing will be done in Congress regarding national gun control (at least not immediately), it's up to the states. I hope other states with loose gun safety/control laws follow Florida's lead and that eventually the Fed will too.

Snip:
Florida lawmakers gave final passage to a $400 million gun control and school safety bill on Wednesday in defiance of the National Rifle Association, which opposed the legislation’s firearm restrictions. The bipartisan vote came three weeks after a gunman killed 17 people in a rampage at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla.

The legislation, which passed the State Senate on Monday and now heads to the governor, includes the following new controls:

--Raises the minimum age to purchase any firearm to 21 from 18;
--Imposes a three-day waiting period on gun purchases;
--Funds school police officers and mental health counselors;
--Allows local school districts and sheriffs to arm certain school personnel;
--Bans bump stocks, which make guns fire faster;
--Gives law enforcement more power to commit people deemed a threat.

While the gun bill was the first to pass in the state in years, it fell short of the demands of many of the students and educators who have in recent weeks led a national call for stronger firearm restrictions.

Full story: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/07/us/fl...icted.html

[MikeyA]

Raising the age to purchase firearms will eventually be ruled unconstitutional.

For several reasons. First, in Florida you're saying 18yr old military members cannot be issued a weapon.

Second, it undermines the idea of a citizen militia. In the times the country has relied upon militia the standard is they bring their weapons with them. Well now you're taking the largest bulk of fighting age militia and preventing them from buying said weapon.

Third, the final death blow to it will be women. An 18-20yr old woman who lives alone could be targeted for stalking or rape. You're taking their ability to defend themselves completely away.

[MikeyA]

Ok, I guess I just cant win anymore. I just finished up a conversation with a old friend and some of his friend. Well, long story short. One of his friends ended up pissed at me because I wasn't going far enough with gun safety. She just kept saying ban them all. And gunshow loophole. And the other side was pissed at me because I brought up the subject of soldiers and mental illnesses. He kept yelling that we should not "build" a law that encompasses our soldiers after they return. I just don't get it. I cant agree with anyone anymore. Both sides disagree with me now.

The problem with almost every law they come up with for mental illnesses is they always run afoul of the 4^th amendment. The exception being Gun Violence Restraining Orders which are temporary and afford for a hearing.

There is no such thing as a gun show loophole.

[Maggot]

Back in the late 80's early 90's most nutcases were released into society. They could be brought under control with drugs, full on hospitals soon filled with nutcases that had committed crimes and were in the nutfarm because they were cases of the insanity defense. The hospitals were guaranteed a paycheck from the state to house them. A much better paycheck and more secure than just any nutcase on the street that had no money to pay for them to be held. Today there are more crazy people running around because they are expected to take their drugs that make them "sane" some do some don't for a variety of reasons but the end product is more crazy people trying to be integrated into a society that's already very filled with needy people. Putting them away for a time has changed because doctors are fooled into thinking that a nutcase after one year of being cool could not possibly blow their top at any given moment. All because society has deemed them intergratable when they are not and never will be.

[HairOfTheDog]

Raising the age to purchase firearms will eventually be ruled unconstitutional.

For several reasons. First, in Florida you're saying 18yr old military members cannot be issued a weapon.

Second, it undermines the idea of a citizen militia. In the times the country has relied upon militia the standard is they bring their weapons with them. Well now you're taking the largest bulk of fighting age militia and preventing them from buying said weapon.

Third, the final death blow to it will be women. An 18-20yr old woman who lives alone could be targeted for stalking or rape. You're taking their ability to defend themselves completely away.

I bet you're wrong Mikey.

I bet the NRA will legally challenge the 21 minimum age as unconstitutional, and the NRA will lose.

I bet state courts and the Supreme Court understand the Second Amendment and know how to apply it to the public at large as opposed to trained members of the governmental military without conflating the two.

We'll see.