RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION

[Maggot]

"Gleefully"

[Donovan]

That's how I heard it. I stand by my assessment. Dobby the house elf practically popped a boner during his little speech.

[Maggot]

Damn, you must be disappointed.

[HairOfTheDog]

I was looking for the validity of these reports and then came across something written by someone saying that we should not focus on looking for these children because they will just end up getting deported.

The person also said that these are not children that were separated from their parents-it is children that came up on their own or with someone else-they also said that they usually get released to be with a relative or they stay in a shelter.
They don't neccesarily have to be tracked after this point.

Again-I am still looking into the validity of this person's post-because I would love for it to be true, rather than kids being released to traffickers. They also said a number of children were trafficked in 2014-but laws have now gotten stricter. (I only hope this is true) But I somehow don't think it is.

Here's what I know from having followed the issue since 2013.

There are two categories of undocumented child immigrants: (1) accompanied minors,traveling with family into the U.S., and (2) unaccompanied minors, sent into the U.S. alone.

During Obama's term, immigration from Mexico declined to eventually a net zero (more were leaving than coming in). However, shit got extremely bad in Central America in terms of government corruption, poverty, violence and gangs.

Illegal border crossings from Mexico into the U.S. by Hondurans, Nicaraguans, and El Salvadorians therefore started rising significantly. Congress refused to take up immigration law and policy reform to come up with a bi-partisan plan for how to best handle the situation. Swift deportations hit a record high.

Tens of thousands of adults from the Central American countries then began sending their kids into the U.S. alone because they knew the kids couldn't be deported by themselves and would be placed with relatives in the U.S. until immigration court proceedings were held (in hopes that the U.S. courts would grant the kids legal protections or asylum here). There was a backlog and the hearings sometimes weren't scheduled for months.

When there were no known family members for unaccompanied immigrant minors, the children were placed in foster care with vetted Americans until their immigration court hearings.

It is true that some of the unaccounted-for or 'lost’ unaccompanied minors are missing on purpose because their U.S. family members or appointed custodians don't want to go to court and risk having having the kids deported back to what they'd fled.

However, it's also true and verified (and acknowledged by head of the Department of Homeland Security directly) that the level of vetting for legal custodians hasn't been very thorough and the agency's ability or effort to monitor the children after they were handed off, as required, has not been sufficient.

As a result, thousands of the unaccompanied child immigrants are unaccounted for and some ended up in the hands of traffickers. When the facts/numbers were recently made public, the Director of Homeland Security vowed to improve the vetting and monitoring processes. Like you, I hope that vow is sincere and kept.

What's happening now is that the Trump administration has just expanded the policy for unaccompanied immigrant children to include children who are with their families when they enter the U.S. illegally. The parents have no say in the matter -- their children are being taken from them after the long journey rather than going to immigration court proceedings together with their parents (as in the past).

The Trump administration policy expansion is designed to deter immigrant families from attempting to enter the U.S., according to Trump's Chief of Staff and the Director of the Department Homeland Security. It's causing a lot of heartache and desperation for some of these immigrant parents because U.S. immigration officials can't or won't tell them where their kids are located.

President Trump claimed recently that his hands are tied because the forced separation of children from their parents is based on a "horrible Democrat law". That's just another lie.

[Maggot]

The children were unaccompanied minors from various Central American countries who reached the southern U.S. border between 2013 and 2016. The total 1475 is the number of children "lost" during those years.

[HairOfTheDog]

The children were unaccompanied minors from various Central American countries who reached the southern U.S. border between 2013 and 2016. The total 1475 is the number of children "lost" during those years.

That's not accurate and really distorts the scale of the issue.

The investigation into "lost" or "unaccounted-for" unaccompanied migrant children was specific to the first quarter of fiscal year 2018 (October through December 2017) only, NOT the three year period prior to Trump's presidency.

The Facts:
During that three month period, approximately 21,000 unaccompanied migrant minors arrived at the southwest border.

The government placed 7,635 of them with relatives or other custodians/sponsors.

An investigation for that period conducted by the Department of Health and Human Services, which oversees refugee resettlement, found that:

--6,075 of the children remained with their sponsors,
--28 had run away,
--5 had been removed from the United States,
--52 had relocated to live with a nonsponsor.
Leaving 1,475 children -- whereabouts unknown, which is the number some refer to as "lost" or "unaccounted-for" by the government.

Source: Congressional testimony by Steven Wagner, the acting assistant secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services' Administration for Children and Families.
Refs:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05/...-says.html
http://raycomgroup.worldnow.com/story/38...ounted-for
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/26/us/po...ssing.html ,

That equates to 19% unaccounted-for children in the quarter, which isn't substantially different than the percentage of government-placed migrant children who were unaccounted-for at the end of previous years. In 2016, the percentage was 16%, for example.

[Blindgreed1]

Maggot: "The total 1475 is the number of children "lost" during those years."
HoTD: "That's not accurate and really distorts the scale of the issue."
HoTD: "Leaving 1,475 children -- whereabouts unknown, which is the number some refer to as "lost" or "unaccounted-for" by the government."

Our resident contrarian

[HairOfTheDog]

Maggot: "The total 1475 is the number of children "lost" during those years."
HoTD: "That's not accurate and really distorts the scale of the issue."
HoTD: "Leaving 1,475 children -- whereabouts unknown, which is the number some refer to as "lost" or "unaccounted-for" by the government."

Our resident contrarian

DERP.

I only spelled it out in the text of my post several times, provided the direct source, and gave you three media recap sources............ so that even you would be capable of comprehending why Maggot's inaccurate comment grossly distorts the scale of the issue.

Still, once again, you weren't able to comprehend and attempted a burn which leaves only YOU scorched.

Broken down in the most elementary terms without the supporting context (which always seems to confound you) -- this time with caps, colors, and bolding just for you Gunnar:

1, 475 is the number of "lost" or "unaccounted-for" unaccompanied migrant children OVER A 3-MONTH PERIOD (OCTOBER - DECEMBER 2017), NOT THE 3-YEAR PERIOD MAGGOT CLAIMED.

The number of "lost" or "unaccounted-for" children over the 3-year period Maggot cited is much much higher, in the tens of thousands.

If you STILL don't understand............you're hopeless and on your own.

[Donovan]

According to the former official on NPR (whose name has escaped me but who was directly involved) speaking to the topic of forcefully separating children from their parents regardless of age or circumstance, there was NO law or enforcement of such a practice under either Bush or Obama. This is purely Trump.

[HairOfTheDog]

According to the former official on NPR (whose name has escaped me but who was directly involved) speaking to the topic of forcefully separating children from their parents regardless of age or circumstance, there was NO law or enforcement of such a practice under either Bush or Obama. This is purely Trump.

That's right.

Under the Trump administration, children who enter the U.S. with their parents are being taken from the parents and put in the same detention centers and subjected to the same flawed processes as the hundred thousand children who've entered alone over the last several years, thousands of whom are now unaccounted for.

The parents are going directly to jail and have no say in the matter. Under previous administrations, the parents and children went to immigration court together unless there were factors making that imprudent.

In the short time since Trump's administration started separating migrant children from their parents immediately upon crossing the border, there are already parents who do not know where the children they brought over are located. https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/ho...o-14738340

I do understand why the blanket term "lost children" is causing confusion though. It's true that the government has lost track of thousands of migrant minors. However, that doesn't mean that all or most of the relatives or custodians with whom they were placed have lost, abused, or trafficked the kids. It means the government can't reach those relatives and custodians, so the government doesn't know what's happening with the kids.

[Blindgreed1]

Maggot: "The total 1475 is the number of children "lost" during those years."
HoTD: "That's not accurate and really distorts the scale of the issue."
HoTD: "Leaving 1,475 children -- whereabouts unknown, which is the number some refer to as "lost" or "unaccounted-for" by the government."

Our resident contrarian

DERP.

I only spelled it out in the text of my post several times, provided the direct source, and gave you three media recap sources............ so that even you would be capable of comprehending why Maggot's inaccurate comment grossly distorts the scale of the issue.

Still, once again, you weren't able to comprehend and attempted a burn which leaves only YOU scorched.

Broken down in the most elementary terms without the supporting context (which always seems to confound you) -- this time with caps, colors, and bolding just for you Gunnar:

1, 475 is the number of "lost" or "unaccounted-for" unaccompanied migrant children OVER A 3-MONTH PERIOD (OCTOBER - DECEMBER 2017), NOT THE 3-YEAR PERIOD MAGGOT CLAIMED.

The number of "lost" or "unaccounted-for" children over the 3-year period Maggot cited is much much higher, in the tens of thousands.

If you STILL don't understand............you're hopeless and on your own.

Sure thing "Mary, Mary quite contrary."

[HairOfTheDog]

Yep, Gunnar.........you're hopeless and on your own.

[Donovan]

I fail to see how any parent, regardless of party affiliation, could be okay with having their own children taken by force for the crime of trying to flee violence or poverty or some sort of awful existence. I said as much during the Syrian refugee crisis (many of whom are now dead): this isn't about whether or not a person filled in the right forms or speaks the right language or was born with the right address. It's about basic human decency and whether we as a nation can claim that we are an honorable, noble people.

Right now, we cannot. We ARE not. And that is the true shame.

[HairOfTheDog]

I fail to see how any parent, regardless of party affiliation, could be okay with having their own children taken by force for the crime of trying to flee violence or poverty or some sort of awful existence. I said as much during the Syrian refugee crisis (many of whom are now dead): this isn't about whether or not a person filled in the right forms or speaks the right language or was born with the right address. It's about basic human decency and whether we as a nation can claim that we are an honorable, noble people.

Right now, we cannot. We ARE not. And that is the true shame.

I get where you're coming from. It's terrible and sad that so many minors are fleeing their countries, with and without their families, because they are not safe at home. How to most efficiently, compassionately, and wisely handle it as incoming countries is complex for the U.S., Europe, Africa... It has been a challenge globally for a very long time.

In the U.S., President Trump wants to deter them from attempting to seek refuge in the U.S. in the first place and deport as many as possible who've already come to the U.S.

That's why he continually harps on the Salvadorian gang MS-13 -- which I don't object to anyone calling 'animals', personally, but is not a massive criminal organization comprised only of unaccompanied migrant minors or representative of the immigrant population.

That's why he refers to Mexican immigrants as rapists and publicly refers to some predominately black countries as 'shitholes'. That's why he makes false statements about immigrants (who actually commit crimes at a lower rate in the U.S. than natural born citizens) and threatens sanctuary cities. That's why he attempts to ban Muslims and has significantly reduced the number of Muslim refugee approvals. That's why he keeps beating the "Build that Wall!" drum.

Trump's administration and many in the Republican party are using branding to demonize refugees and immigrants and paint them as evil 'others' who want to come here to commit crimes, milk the system, take American jobs...even though those are false characterizations which only apply to a very small portion of the refugee/migrant population.

That branding appears to be effective with some people. It drives or bolsters some of his admirers to support the "fuck them" philosophy and scream "Build That Wall! at the top of their lungs, with pride. And, it's very polarizing, as reflected below.



That's how I see it anyway.

Let's hope that we get a Democrat House majority in 2018. Maybe, just maybe, with a split Congress there can finally be a bi-partisan focus on immigration law/policy reform that makes sense and reflects the values of most Americans.

[Maggot]

Maybe if Mexico wasn't such a drug gang infested shithole they would be able to have pity on those poor children as they walked barefoot through the Mexican towns and Villas helping them to become all they could become. But because America is 10x better than any other country in the world they crawl here to become full American citizens with a true love for all that America is. Loving her like a Mother and obeying every law. I have seen the light!!!

[Duchess]

I'd help them. I'll always want to help the vulnerable and less fortunate, but for the grace of God...

[Blindgreed1]

Maybe if Mexico wasn't such a drug gang infested shithole they would be able to have pity on those poor children as they walked barefoot through the Mexican towns and Villas helping them to become all they could become. But because America is 10x better than any other country in the world they crawl here to become full American citizens with a true love for all that America is. Loving her like a Mother and obeying every law. I have seen the light!!!

I sense sarcasm...

[Maggot]

Each politician should get two as a border door prize. I have not done the math on that though so they may get three.

[Donovan]

Maybe if Mexico wasn't such a drug gang infested shithole they would be able to have pity on those poor children as they walked barefoot through the Mexican towns and Villas helping them to become all they could become. But because America is 10x better than any other country in the world they crawl here to become full American citizens with a true love for all that America is. Loving her like a Mother and obeying every law. I have seen the light!!!

Geez I hate to break it to you, but America hasn't been the best country in the world by any sort of tangible measuring stick in many years. We're like the Harley Davidson of developed countries: we had a few good years decades ago, we quietly turned to shit but our fans are so rabidly loyal we refuse to admit it, and we've been riding that undeserved reputation of excellence for way too long now.

Dont believe me? Try this comprehensive chart, and after you work your way thru it in a couple years let me know, I have more.
https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

[Maggot]

I'm beginning to wonder there frat boy. Don't worry though I actually enjoy your expressive and excessive use of adjectives and pronouns. Refreshing in an absurd way and I bet you are cool to hang out with.