12-14-2014, 01:31 PM
(12-14-2014, 07:30 AM)Cutz Wrote: In the interest of brevity, I'll just say that the "lies" about the situation could be nothing more than wrong statements. The cop says he thinks the suspect is 20... that's not a lie so much as wrong. Perhaps that belief is grounded in the fact that I don't think they need to lie about the situation.
I think you're being very generous in entertaining the possibility that the officers innocently made wrong statements and weren't lying when they claimed that Tamir was with "a few people" when they rolled up on him. That they were both simply mistaken about the fact that he was alone defies logic, IMO. It makes much more sense, to me, that they lied intentionally to create a narrative whereby Tamir was hanging out with bad guys or that he posed a threat to others in order to justify their wrongful approach and mishandling of the situation.
Investigators will be looking at whether the officers responded appropriately, not only whether Tamir reacted appropriately to supposed commands to put up his hands. Should the officers have assumed that he'd run and pulled up so fast and so close rather than leave room for plan B? Should they have instead instructed him from a distance and responded accordingly? Is it reasonable to believe that Officer Loehmann clearly yelled out from inside the car or while jumping out of the car for Tamir to raise his hands three times in under 2 seconds, while the car was unexpectedly sliding across the grass? Valid questions in making the determination as to whether this was a justified shooting.
Whether they were both wrong in the exact same ways in assessing the scene before approaching or they lied in attempt to cover their asses after the fact, it's a problem for the officers and the Cleveland PD, IMO.
(12-14-2014, 07:30 AM)Cutz Wrote: Tamir was disobedient (if you believe his mother), an asshole (trying to scare strangers by pointing a gun at them), and an idiot (advancing on officers while drawing a weapon.) When I was a kid, I played with guns, some of them real looking, but my parents warned me that if I left the yard with them I could be arrested or worse. My mom specifically said some cop could shoot me not knowing it was fake. I obeyed my parents. If I didn't think Tamir was directly responsible for his death, I might vilify the officers the same way. I feel bad the kid is dead, but in the same situation, dude drawing a weapon from his waist while walking toward me... I'd have shot him myself.
I think it's interesting how you characterize Tamir based on a couple of hours of his life. One incident of playing/acting aggressively with a plastic gun in the park (a plastic gun his mom claims she wouldn't have given him) doesn't make it a given, to me, that Tamir Rice was an idiotic, disobedient, asshole who is responsible for his own death. But, I acknowledge that he might have been a disobedient little asshole in general. I don't know.
In contrast, you view questioning the qualifications of the shooting cop -- the cop who had an emotional breakdown on the job, displayed dismal performance during firearm training, couldn't follow instructions, fell asleep during training, left a loaded gun unsecured, demonstrated inappropriate responses during live situational field training, and was about to be fired for consistently poor performance during his months of employment -- as persecuting or vilifying the cop for simply "having feelings one day".
The different perspectives and opinions are interesting to me.
I think there's probable cause for an indictment in this case and it should go to court so all the evidence can be presented from both sides and a jury can decide whether either or both of the officers acted recklessly in the killing of Tamir Rice. I don't think either officer will face murder charges (nor should they) if indicted because it's a stretch to believe they killed Tamir Rice with premeditation. But, it's reasonable to expect that they might face charges of negligent homicide based on what we know now, IMO.
We'll see.