American independence.

[Piglet]

Thats interesting, and on the surface, it is appropriate.   Oliver Cromwell, from my part of the world, Ely , didnt like the Irish, he went over there and murdered as many as he could, not really that nice.     At that time, murderous racism wasnt unusual. 

This will surprise you, Cromwell was the father of democracy, he insisted that the British parliament acted in the best interest of the British people, not in their regional best interest. and dissolved parliament  until parliament did his wishes.

He did it several times until it functioned properly.  He had to execute  King Charles at the time to be able to do it.    He was a hero, as well as being a bit hard on the Irish.

The Irish have a good reason to hate the English, back then.   Yes, back then.   The english occupied Northern Ireland for a long time, and eventually a new country emerged, a country called Northern Ireland who wanted to be governed by the English, not Ireland.

Northern Ireland is not English, its not Irish, its separate from both.

So this is the problem, Ireland want the north back, but the north doesnt want to know.  To get the north back, the IRA started a war against Britain, when Britain had no say over what was best for N Ireland.

America saw it from  the souths point of view, and funded the murder of british soldiers and civilians.  The British troops in Northern Ireland were peace keepers.   If they were not there, the north would have gone to war with the south, and  the bloodshed would have been enormous.

The solution was to observe democracy, when the north votes to rejoin the south, then all well and good.  Sin Fein, or the IRA now has MPS in the northern irish assembly, as seemingly have a majority in the populace.

I hope this makes sense.

That is the propaganda peddled by the limey parliament for centuries; you can shove it where the sun doesn't shine. The British Empire was a group of fops playing God. Did they do some good? Sure, but the evil far out shadows the good.

The hatred started with Cromwell, but there are plenty of more recent examples. The Famine, The Easter Rising, Black and Tans, The Battle of the Bogside, Ballymurphy Massacre, Bloody Sunday - the Bogside massacre and the hunger strike just to name a few.

My paternal grandfather, at the age of 17, walked the 50+ miles from his home to Dublin to participate in the Easter Rising. He lost his parents during the famine and was the ward of his older brother. His brother forbade him, but he went anyway.

As I have been told, his unit had a firefight with limey murders and wiped them out. They salvaged weapons and ammo from the dead and continued to fight. The next day he was wounded, patched up by the Cumann na mBan and walked home. He took the Webley MK6 pistol he retrieved off an officer he shot for protection.

When he got home his brother was furious and put him on the next boat to America.

My prized possession is that pistol. They will bury me with it.

As the song says, we have fought for 800 years, and we will fight for 800 more. I am a proud Republican; it is in my blood.


mann na mBan

I can see your point, the north was once Eire, now it isnt, but it may be again, and probably will in the near future, not through violence and hate, but through democracy.    In the Bible, Jesus said...he who has not sinned can cast the first stone.

Where does America stand on that observation.  Or Ireland.?   The atrocities by the IRA were mind blowing, and politically, the IRA was wrong.  You observe democracy or you dont.

Where does America stand in regards to turning the other cheek, and casting a stone?   Have America never sinned?  This note hasnt the space to print it, yet like the British,  the intention  was correct.   

The timeline of the Webly doesnt sound right, there were no automatics at the time of your fathers grandfather.    One of the failings of politicians is that they pointedly ignore everything that doesnt support their argument.  You have done that by not acknowledging that the north is a different culture, and it doing that, you are perpetuating division, and ultimately, war.   Things change, get used to  it.       By the way, the northern irish are bad.  If it wasnt for the british army, you would have lost....badly.

The celts, the irish scots and welsh are the baddest of all when it comes to war.   In earlier centuries before the gun, when England was at war, the opposition fled many times.

When they heard bagpipes, the scots have no fear, at all.

The Webley is a revolver. The Irish turned the other cheek; it got slapped also. At some point, you have to stand up to the bully. The IRA fought fire with fire; except, they didn't target women and children, they targeted military and police tyrants.

Democracy is Britan, we are a Republic, big difference.

There is a lot wrong with the above, it is good though as it will help you realise there are many sides to everything.  Please listen.   The IRA blew up women and children, there was the Birmingham bombings, as well as other outrages.  To the IRAs credit, they did give notice, of a few minutes at most.  Eire is not a republic, its a democracy.

It is a republic in a sense, from Britain, but it is a democracy.   As Brexiteer, i must argue that Eire  is not a democracy anymore, maybe in name, but a province of Europe, you are governed by the Hun and the Frogs.  Pardon my language.

Im not a youngster anymore, i cant recall if children were murdered, im sure they were.  You cant bomb stuff indiscriminately and not kill a child. 

Considering you are on your high horse, respond to this.  In the 1960s i was young, under 10, but bright enough to take notice of the news.  On the BBC, there were squadrons of B52S blanket bombing Vietnam, with Napalm.   Napalm is highly flammable, and if your lucky, you die of affixiation, if not you burn to death.   There was a famous photo of a running  ten year old girl, naked, her clothes burnt off, and screaming covered in burns.  

Men women, children, animals....all died.    Over vast areas of land, the Americans wanted to burn down the forests so the Vietcong could not hide.  Now compare that to Northern Ireland.

You say Britain is guilty, and by default, me.

WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT VIETNAM????     AMERICA.?     By your own attitude, you are GUILTY.   Am i getting through?   It happened, we have moved on.  Let it go.

As Jesus said,  he who has not sinned......