WELL, SHOOT... JUST SHOOT

[Cynical Ninja]

This Wafer guy hasn't got a leg to stand on then legally does he really?

Seems fairly cut and dryed to me, he had no justification at all for blowing that poor bitch away did he?

[HairOfTheDog]

This Wafer guy hasn't got a leg to stand on then legally does he really?

I don't think so.

But, the law is tricky shit and juries are unpredictable.

I'd negotiate a plea if I were Wafer, but no telling what he and his attorneys will do.

[username]

This thread is really fucking depressing. In the old days, you helped your neighbor; you didn't fucking shoot complete strangers, old men with dementia, drunk young women and YOUR DAUGHTER through a door. Jesus.

[Cheyne]

I looked up Michigan's Castle Doctrine Here.

It states "The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used is in the process of breaking and entering a dwelling or business premises or committing home invasion or has broken and entered a dwelling or business premises or committed home invasion and is still present in the dwelling or business premises, or is unlawfully attempting to remove another individual from a dwelling, business premises, or occupied vehicle against his or her will."

Wafer's attorney may be advising him that the jury will accept his porch as his home, that Renisha was guilty of B&E so the Castle Doctrine will apply.

The problem I see for both sides is convincing a jury what constitutes a person's "home". I don't believe that an open air (I may be making an assumption here-but there was a screen door between the porch and the front door) front porch is your "home" or someone stepping onto it is B&E or a home invasion. However, others may feel differently and consider any physical part of the house as the "home".

IMO Wafer has a chance to walk if the jury considers his porch as his home and his attorney's can convince the jury that Wafer felt he was in danger of great bodily harm.

[username]

I looked up Michigan's Castle Doctrine Here.



IMO Wafer has a chance to walk if the jury considers his porch as his home and his attorney's can convince the jury that Wafer felt he was in danger of great bodily harm.

That's really fucking outrageous if any semi sane jury can be led to believe he was in fear of his life.

I don't think he was and I can't come up with any rational explanation as to why he shot her. I bet he was drunk or otherwise loaded to the gills. They didn't test him, right? WTF not?

To the gun advocates, should it (or is it) legal to use your gun when you're smashed? If so, why? You can't drive a car drunk...why should you be entitled to operate or handle a gun when you're drunk?

[Cynical Ninja]

She wasn't breaking and entering she was off her face banging on the door. Sorry, but its not illegal to bang on someones door and its completely mental to shoot and kill a complete stranger through a securely locked door.

I can't see any ambiguity in this case at all, no ifs no buts no coconuts. Guilty of at the very least manslaughter.

[Cheyne]

I couldn't agree with you more. Wafer is guilty of murder (or at least manslaughter) of Renisha. I was just pointing out the way Wafer's lawyer may be thinking.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

If the prosecutor can't make this case then is a piss poor prosecutor.
In my mind there was never a time that wafer should have been able to claim any reasonable fear for his safety.
He should take a plea
Then again, they let the guy off down here that shot the kids in the car next to him, with 2 doors between him and his alleged attackers.

[HairOfTheDog]

If Wafer doesn't strike a plea deal and goes to trial, I think you're right about what strategy the defense attorneys will use, Cheyne.

They'll need to paint Renisha as trying to force her way into Wafer's "castle" through that locked screen door with him fearing for his life and defending it and his property when he fired the gun.

The DA stated at the arraignment that there were no signs of an attempted B&E, but I did read that there were some "possible" hand prints on the exterior screen door that hadn't been tested. Of course, there should be a lot of hand prints there. But, if they're tested and some turn out to be Renisha's, the defense will likely jump all over that.

I think the defense attorneys have a huge uphill battle, especially given Wafer's inconsistent statements as to why he shot the girl. If his original "accident' statement is allowed to be presented at trial, that's really gonna hurt him with a jury who will be asked to find him credible and to believe his later version that it was intentional and justified. IMO.


P.s. The man who shot the Alzheimer's patient for wandering into his backyard after knocking on the front door in Georgia hasn't even been charged - I think he should be. I believe LE is investigating whether the shooter was justified (via Castle Doctrine or something similar) in not waiting for police to arrive when he decided to go outside and blast the poor old man.

[HairOfTheDog]

Here's a recent bit on the Georgia shooting of the Alzheimer's patient.


Ronald Westbrook, 72. RIP.

Snip:

The last walk that Ronald Westbrook took began as early as 1 a.m. when he slipped unnoticed from his North Georgia home with his two dogs.

It ended three hours later when Westbrook, a 72-year-old who suffered from Alzheimer’s disease, knocked in the dark on a stranger’s door last month. Police said a man inside that home, 34-year-old Joe Hendrix, got a .40-calibre handgun (while his spouse was on the phone talking to 911), went outside to investigate and shot Westbrook in a horrible mistake.

Under Georgia law, people are not required to try retreating from a potential conflict before opening fire to defend themselves from serious imminent harm, said Russell Gabriel, director of the Criminal Defence Clinic at the University of Georgia. State law allows people to use lethal force to stop someone from forcibly entering a home if those inside reasonably fear they are going to be attacked. Deadly force can even be used to stop someone from trying to forcibly enter a home to commit a felony.

“Different people have a different understanding of what is reasonable,” Gabriel said. “Reasonableness is a classic jury question.”

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/business/fp/...z2oJg9eCwP

[Duchess]

That's sad & maddening :(

[Cynical Ninja]

How pissed off would you be if Ronald was your dad or grandad?

Don't let mental people have guns? Don't let paranoid twitchy trigger happy twats have guns either.

[HairOfTheDog]

14 Year-Old Colorado girl shot to death by stepfather - mistaken for a burglar?



Police say the Colorado Springs girl was shot around 6 a.m. Monday and later died at the hospital.

The stepfather hasn't been arrested or identified and it will be up to prosecutors to decide whether charges should be filed.

(Police spokesman Larry) Herbert said police are looking at the stepfather's intent and whether he acted recklessly as they investigate the shooting.

Colorado's "Make My Day" law allows residents to defend themselves against intruders.

Story developing. Source:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/24..._ref=crime

[Duchess]

I read about this yesterday. According to that story the girl was sneaking back into the home through a basement window (in the middle of the night). If that's true I can see how this happened. It's very sad nonetheless.

[Cheyne]

Another article on the shooting of the teen girl.

This about breaks my heart. I can't imagine what her mother is feeling right now. If this is indeed a case of mistaken identity, the stepfather is going to wear this the rest of his life.

[HairOfTheDog]

It's a very sad story. Most of them are sad stories.

Will be surprised if the stepdad is prosecuted because the mom probably won't want to pursue it and the girl was sorta in the process of breaking and entering her own home.

Still negligent of the stepdad not to check where the kid(s) were first, IMO. I'd have checked on them before confronting a possible burglar. I checked a couple of months back when I wasn't sure who the hell was in my garage in the middle of the night.

Then I grabbed the (dull) butchers knife from the kitchen and my cell phone. I knew it wasn't the kid in the garage and knew where the kid was before I went charging in to confront what turned out to be a damned possum.

Anyway, if there's nothing more to this story than a terrible mistake, I agree that this family will suffer immeasurably whether any charges are pressed or not.

[Cynical Ninja]

“Make my day” law?

Seriously? That's what they call it?

[HairOfTheDog]

“Make my day” law?

Seriously? That's what they call it?

I had to look that up and check myself when I posted the story.

That's how the Colorado law has commonly been referenced since its adoption in 1985 (but it's not the formal name for it in the law books, AFAIK).

Some new details:


The victim: 14 year-old Kiana O'Neil - RIP

The shooter/stepdad is 29 year-old Daniel Meade, who is married to Kiana's mother, Monica Meade.

According to witnesses, Meade fired three shots from a weapon yet to be described by police.

“I heard three bangs,” said a neighbor Jani Harvey, speaking to local TV station KTRK. “They weren’t all right together. It was like bang, bang, bang.”

Why Meade felt the need to fire at the supposed burglar remains a mystery.

Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/1073307/kiana-o...a4YzaLY.99

[HairOfTheDog]

THIS ONE SOUNDS FAMILIAR


Claudius Smith; charged with second degree murder (left) & Ricardo Sanes, murder victim (right).


Claudius Smith was charged with second-degree murder on Friday for the death of Ricardo Sanes, 21, TV station WOFL reported.

Sanes' body was found with multiple gunshot wounds on Thursday morning in an apartment complex near Smith's home.

Smith, 32, sprang out of his home after his girlfriend Angela Kemraj told him she'd seen someone on a surveillance monitor crossing their lawn, the Orlando Sentinel reported.

Kemraj told police she saw Smith leave the house and hop a fence in pursuit. Following his arrest at his sister's apartment, Smith allegedly admitted to the shooting, the Sentinel reported in a subsequent article.

A police report obtained by the Sentinel indicated that Smith told officers he'd had a recent problem with burglaries and that he was certain Sanes was the culprit. Smith pulled his gun when he confronted Sanes. A fight broke out, with Sanes allegedly throwing the first punch. Fearing that Sanes was reaching for a gun, Smith opened fire, he told police.

Investigators say they found a gun stuffed in Sanes' pants. But police examining his body surmised that he had been shot in the back, which may cast doubt on Smith's account.

Full story:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/20..._ref=crime

[Duchess]

It sure as hell does sound familiar!