ISRAEL VS. PALESTINE...AGAIN

[HairOfTheDog]

^ Well, there you go being all interested.

This thread isn't titled, "Will There Ever Be Peace Between Israel and Palestine?", though I'm interested in yours and anybody else's opinion about that and anything else related to Israel and Palestine.

I am familiar with the amount of US foreign aid to Israel -- past, present, and future -- and the existing and future potential contracts in regards to US purchases of Israeli-manufactured military products and vice versa. It's kept in my mind. It amounts to a huge deficit for the US (financially), but theoretically a benefit in terms of the stabilization and strength of Israel as a state.

If you or anyone else is interested in details, this is a good comprehensive report.
http://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

[blueberryhill]

The U.S. has always been buddies with Israel so I assumed they must be the good guys, and now I am not so sure. The killing of children is a coward's way of war and I am disturbing by the bombing of a school. Don't care what side you are on, killing children is not o.k. If the UN is investigating Israel for violating humanitarian issues, then U.S. should support that also, but they voted no and many of our allies abstained from voting. I wonder why...
I agree with Duchess, be careful what you say out in public about this, but on Facebook, most posters support our questioning of Israel crossing line of decency (if there can be such a thing in a war). Hair, thanks for all the background of these warring factions. Maggs, you say Israel warned citizens so they could leave before the bombing began. That looks good on paper but is it true? I don't think there was a place to run or hide. I saw many people trying to go somewhere, but not always successful.

[sally]

They're war mongering bastards that want to keep other people down, that's why Hitler wanted to get rid of them. They're not doing much different from him actually.

[Maggot]

Who was the aggressor here? Who flung bombs to start?

[Maggot]

They're war mongering bastards that want to keep other people down, that's why Hitler wanted to get rid of them. They're not doing much different from him actually.

I agree Hamas uses female genital mutilation, and separates the girls from the boys in school. A bunch of other things but you know that.

[Duchess]

The people killed & maimed yesterday were sitting ducks. One & all congregated waiting to be evacuated and BOOM.

I fell asleep watching coverage of this and dreamed all night long about people trying to kill me, coming up behind me with wire wrapped in their hands. Those fuckers were going to garrote me and my brain is screaming wake up, wake up.

[Maggot]

If Hamas had any consideration for its citizens it would stop firing rockets into Israel. Instead they shoot them from schools, mosques and houses. They are looking for sympathy from the international community, should Israel just let them bomb them? Should they not try and stop Hamas from using tunnels to plant bombs?
like I said before they were given Gaza to do what they will with it, instead they use it as a launching pad and uses its women and children as human shields. They were warned many times to stop.

[Duchess]

I'm not saying they shouldn't try & stop Hamas. I believe everyone should have the opportunity to fight back. When you hit someone you deserve to get hit back. All I'm saying is that I don't believe Israel is any better than those they fight, that's my opinion.

I also think that many people believe that all those living on Gaza support Hamas and that's simply not the case at all.

I'm not going to defend Israel. They are like a nigger who gets mad for being called a nigger and their response is to call the person saying it a nigger.

[Maggot]

There should be marches and riots until Hamas stops shooting rockets. They need a beat back and until the good citizens rise up in Gaza and stop the idiots from using them as human shields this will be their future. I do not fault Israel for defending themselves.

[HairOfTheDog]

Hamas is classified as a terrorist organization by Israel and the US. Egypt (which is also the recipient of a boatload of US foreign aid) has detached from Hamas since Morsi was ousted. This leaves a sort of vacuum in the local peace talks/negotiations between Israel and Gaza, which used to be facilitated by the Egyptians.

I agree that not all Palestinians support Hamas and its methods, though Hamas did sweep parliamentary elections in the Palestinian territories in 2006 – thrashing its rival, Fatah (which is only marginally less committed to the destruction of Israel). But, I don't know how "free" the elections were, really.

Anyway, I don't think it's necessarily practical or prudent for the average non-militant Palestinians in Gaza to protest and march the streets in opposition to Hamas. IMO, it's possible that they'd be in more danger of getting killed by Hamas than they are of getting killed by Israeli fighters.

As it stands now, cease fire negotiations aren't getting anywhere this time and the fighting continues. Hamas is demanding the occupation be ended (impossible demand; the Jews are not going to pick up and abandon Israel) and that Israel be demilitarized (never gonna happen either). Meanwhile, Israel demands that Gaza be demilitarized, stop firing rockets, and close off all tunnels into Israel.

Neither side is budging at this point. I don't think Hamas has anything much to lose if they continue refusing cease fire proposals (except Palestinian lives). Outside of Palestine territories, it doesn't appear to me that Hamas even has much support in the Arab world these days.

[Duchess]

Normally people like to live in peace & harmony. Neither group of people are going anywhere, that's a fact for them. They each have their own lands, why can't they just live, go about their daily lives, build their futures and just live. It appears they choose to live this way. I love my country but if I'm surrounded by violence I am moving to a different locale. I'm sure it's probably way more complicated than I view it. The older I get the more I fully understand that I don't know shit.

[Duchess]

One of the tunnels we've been hearing about -



It's a little freaky to me the way they parade their dead through the streets -

[sally]

They're war mongering bastards that want to keep other people down, that's why Hitler wanted to get rid of them. They're not doing much different from him actually.

I agree Hamas uses female genital mutilation, and separates the girls from the boys in school. A bunch of other things but you know that.

I don't care how primitive and crazy they are, they were kicked out of their land and sent to refugee camps so the Jews could have a place of their own that they didn't need. What else would you expect from them?

[Maggot]

They have their own place now, they should kick Hamas out and start creating a working society. They could be like South Korea if they would just get their shit together like the Jews did. Why do they have to keep attacking? You have to admit they have been given tons of chances.

[Duchess]

Joan Rivers has an opinion about this conflict -

[HairOfTheDog]

^ I think a lot of people agree with Joan Rivers, but there seems to be a growing sense of condemnation towards Israel.

From what I'm reading, not many people argue that Israel shouldn't be able to defend itself.

However, Israel is seen as going way beyond self-defense into civilian slaughter by retaliating against weak rockets intercepted by the US-funded Iron Dome and bombing areas of the Gaza Strip indiscriminately.

Israel counters that when they hit markets and schools, it's because Hamas is hiding weapons or launching rockets from those restricted civilian areas.

[HairOfTheDog]

NO CEASE FIRE -- NETANYAHU VOWS TO STEP UP ISRAELI FORCES AND DEMILITARIZE GAZA

Death toll so far:
--1,300 Palestinians (est. 70% civilians)
--56 Israeli soldiers


7/30 Gaza Market Bombing in Shujayea

Yesterday, Israel bombs hit a crowded Gaza market and killed 20 more civilians. This happened during an announced 4 hour "humanitarian pause" during which Palestinian civilians were clamoring to get food and supplies. The cease fire was reportedly broken when Hamas started firing rockets. Israel retaliated by bombing the market.

The UN and many global leaders are condemning Israel. John Kerry was a lame duck in terms of his ability to broker a cease fire. And, Hamas again rejected the Egyptian cease-fire proposal.

The Israeli military said Thursday that it is calling up 16,000 additional reservists, bolstering its forces for its fight against Hamas in Gaza after a request for more ammunition from the United States. The addition brings the total number of reservists Israel has called up since the beginning of the operation against Hamas to 86,000, a military spokeswoman said.

After more than three weeks of fighting, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Thursday that Israel would complete its goal of destroying Hamas' network of tunnels with or without a cease-fire. Netanyahu said this is just the first phase of the demilitarization of Gaza. (HOTD: Again, IMO, Netanyahu doesn't give a shit what his US allies and the UN are saying, he's gonna do what he wants and polls reportedly show he has 96% support from the people of Israel.)

While U.S. officials have called on Israel to do more to protect civilians, the United States has agreed to Israel's request to resupply it with several types of ammunition, a U.S. defense official told CNN on condition of anonymity. Among the items being bought are 120mm mortar rounds and 40mm ammunition for grenade launchers, the official said. Those will come from a stockpile the United States keeps in Israel, which is worth more than $1 billion.It's not an emergency sale, the official said.

Related stories:
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/31/world/...?hpt=hp_t1
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast...22600.html

[Duchess]

I read or heard that Israel told John Kerry one thing & did another. I also heard that Hamas was lovin' this conflict. I think it's fair of Israel to honor a ceasefire agreement until they are fired upon again, which was done, and I don't understand why they would be condemned for fighting back.

Kinda wild to me that the US would scold Israel for the number of deaths yet sell them more ammo. I think it's all senseless. So many deaths. Hiding their firepower in schools and parks and hospitals and they still have the audacity to complain.

[HairOfTheDog]

Cease Fire!!! -- wait, nevermind...

Well, yesterday a 72 hour cease fire was finally agreed-to by both sides and announced by the UN and the US.

How long did it last? 2 hours.

Israel blames Hamas and again declares that the IDF is ramping up to go full force against Hamas now. Hamas blames Israel. The UN declares both sides are potentially committing war crimes.

40 Palestinians killed last night. 2 Israeli soldiers killed. And, possibly one Israeli soldier captured (big bargaining chip for Hamas, if true).

Story:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/01...40524.html

[Maggot]

Israel should push the infidels into the sea. I would wait until motion sensors saw someone moving in the tunnels then push the button that blows it up.