THE REBEL FLAG

[Duchess]

Proud symbol of the South or symbol of racism?

[JsMom]

I see it as a symbol of the South but some Southerners are racist so I guess it could go hand and hand.

[ramseycat]

What JS said.

[F.U.]

I guess it can go either way depending on the person that displays it. When I lived in OKC I had a rebel flag license plate on the front of my GTO. It wasn't intended as a racist statement. However when I moved back to Iowa a friend flew a 3x5 flag at his house and it was intended to be racist.

[Cutz]

It's an old debate. Swastika: Buddhist/Hindi sacred symbol, or Nazi flag mark?

When hate groups start tattooing rebel flags on their faces, I think we'll see a lot less proud southern license plate flags.

[Jimbone]

I think the difference is that the Buddhist/Hindi symbol never represented a policy that advocated against other human beings until the Nazis co-opted it... the 'Rebel' flag is actually the battle flag from the Army of Northern Virgina, who was literally fighting for the CSA to keep other human beings as slaves.

States can handle how it is or isn't to be displayed. Texas just successfully fought to keep it off of their license plates, which I'm sure will surprise BBH.

Time and history sort these things out. Just look at the last 20 years or so... that flag has fallen more out of favor in the south, and I believe that trend will continue.

[Clang McFly]

Proud symbol of the South or symbol of racism?

Cool decal on the Dukes of Hazzard's Dodge Charger.

[BlueTiki]

It is what made the General Lee the General Lee!

To me, the Confederate Flag is to racism as a White Sale is to aryanism.

Ban the Confederate flag and guns. . .niggers will magically be off welfare and loved by all.

Flags and guns cause white people to misbehave.

Yup.

Flags and guns.

[username]

To me, the Confederate Flag is to racism as a White Sale is to aryanism.

Ban the Confederate flag and guns. . .niggers will magically be off welfare and loved by all.

Flags and guns cause white people to misbehave.

Yup.

Flags and guns.

Is Black Friday racist? Did they name it that because all the niggers get up early and line up at Walmart?

Questions, questions...

It's a piece of cloth with a symbol on it. How you interpret it (and how much meaning you give it) is entirely up to you.

I'm not entirely opposed to flag burning either. That too is a piece of cloth and granted, it doesn't strike me as terribly patriotic to burn one, I don't think you can force patriotism down someone's throat. Although there was that pesky draft thing for awhile...


I'm just rambling.

[Cutz]

I think the difference is that the Buddhist/Hindi symbol never represented a policy that advocated against other human beings until the Nazis co-opted it... the 'Rebel' flag is actually the battle flag from the Army of Northern Virgina, who was literally fighting for the CSA to keep other human beings as slaves.

Saying the Civil War was over whether people could keep slaves is like saying America fought for freedom from England for the right to brush our teeth.

[Jimbone]

Saying the Civil War was over whether people could keep slaves is like saying America fought for freedom from England for the right to brush our teeth.

You can't be serious. You know damn well the central issue that lead to the southern secession was about slavery. Yes it was a 'states rights' fight, but they were fighting for the ability to keep slaves for Pete's sake!

The Constitution of the CSA actually included protections for slavery, insuring it would remain for the existing states and any other state that joined the Confederacy.

Or maybe you didn't know that?

From Civilwar.org, slavery emphasis mine:

The Civil War started because of uncompromising differences between the free and slave states over the power of the national government to prohibit slavery in the territories that had not yet become states. When Abraham Lincoln won election in 1860 as the first Republican president on a platform pledging to keep slavery out of the territories, seven slave states in the deep South seceded and formed a new nation, the Confederate States of America. The incoming Lincoln administration and most of the Northern people refused to recognize the legitimacy of secession. They feared that it would discredit democracy and create a fatal precedent that would eventually fragment the no-longer United States into several small, squabbling countries.

http://www.civilwar.org/education/histor...rview.html

[blueberryhill]

Proud symbol of the South or symbol of racism?

Southerners are proud of their heritage, but last trip I made to the South was Forest Service business trip. Was early 90's and Atlanta had a record snowfall and we were "snowed in." I saw zillions of mostly trucks with the confederate flag and the usual rifle in its place behind the seats. I think it tends to be displayed more by racists than not. We are supposed to be unified as States, but in fact, our country becomes more divisive every day.

....and no, Mr. Bone, Texas doesn't surprise me by barring the confederate flag on license tags....They don't want to be known as covert racists, etc.....Obtaining guns without permit and background checks is O.K. though,
according to their "no brains" politicians.

I also feel that not lowering the flag to half staff in honoring victims was a subtle or maybe, not so subtle, snub.

I think I have told you about a young woman at a conference years ago said she had been wanting to meet me and advised me that my ancestors were slave owners. I was mortified and told her that she was mistaken. Several years later, some of the family received invitations to a family reunion in Mississippi. I didn't go but wish I could have gone. I find it totally interesting....P.S. Haven't been invited back since....oh yes, they are all Black and there are some famous ones out there which you would recognize...

[HairOfTheDog]

The Civil War was about preventing the Confederate South from seceding; which the southern states wanted to do primarily because of the Union North's growing movement away from slavery.

Lincoln reinvigorated the weary Union fighters a couple of years into it by refocusing the main goal from maintaining unity to the emancipation of slaves.

He was smart and wily (and right, IMO). It took him those first couple of years to realize that he could focus the mission on the Declaration of Independence's proclamation that "all men are created equal", despite the Constitution's recognition of slave ownership as a white citizen's right. By then he understood that he would likely have support in facilitating an amendment to the Constitution to ensure that emancipation would hold after a Union victory (rather than declaring emancipation a temporary wartime act).

So, to me, the Civil War was both about states' rights and abolishing slavery. In less than two decades after the Union's victory, the"United States" had become a singular term rather than a plural one; the sovereign states had indeed become united and slavery had been abolished.

That's my understanding anyway. And, because I know why the Confederate states resisted and fought to secede from the Union and I don't think slavery should be celebrated or embraced, I'd not display a Confederate flag even if I lived in the Old South.

Still, I don't think the Confederate flag should be banned or anything. People have a right to freedom of expression through symbolic displays. On a personal level, I pay attention to what people put out there and appreciate the heads-up. If you've got a Confederate flag, a Swastika, a bound spread-eagle woman or such on proud display on your person or property, I'm gonna write you off as backwards and move along without further engagement.

[Maggot]

I like Lynyrd Skynyrd

[Duchess]

I do too. I've liked them for as long as I've been listening to music.

[Jimbone]

....and no, Mr. Bone, Texas doesn't surprise me by barring the confederate flag on license tags....They don't want to be known as covert racists, etc.....Obtaining guns without permit and background checks is O.K. though,
according to their "no brains" politicians.

Yes, that must be it. Remember ALL those 'no brains' politicians are just being wily then, because if they wanted the flag they could have put it there.

And why do you keep repeating something that is not true? You can't go to legally purchase a gun in Texas without submitting to a background check. You can't do that in ANY state. Holy shit, you're either trolling or being intentionally obtuse.

[HairOfTheDog]

I'm not trolling or being intentionally obtuse Jimbone. But, I'm not following you.

You can, by federal law and in some states, go to a gun show and legally buy a gun from a private seller without submitting to a background check.

You can also legally acquire a gun without submitting to a background check if it's a gift from a family member.

So, yeah, there are politicians who continue to support the NRA in leaving the door open for legal acquisition of guns without background checks.

I don't understand where you're coming from when you keep insisting that you can't legally buy a gun anywhere without submitting to a background check.

[Duchess]

You can, by federal law and in some states, go to a gun show and legally buy a gun from a private seller without submitting to a background check.

You can also legally acquire a gun without submitting to a background check if it's a gift from a family member.

This is very concerning & irresponsible in its own right. It bothers me a lot that any person in the land can acquire a weapon so easily. I want people to have to jump through hoops and pass with flying colors in order to get their hands on something that carries so much power.

[Carsman]

Proud symbol of the South or symbol of racism?

It was a symbol of "brother killing brother", father or son killing each other. It was unthinkable, but sadly, it happened! Very high price to pay, as unfortunately there are some who still feel "the South will rise again"!

[Jimbone]

I'm not trolling or being intentionally obtuse Jimbone. But, I'm not following you.

You can, by federal law and in some states, go to a gun show and legally buy a gun from a private seller without submitting to a background check.

You can also legally acquire a gun without submitting to a background check if it's a gift from a family member.

So, yeah, there are politicians who continue to support the NRA in leaving the door open for legal acquisition of guns without background checks.

I don't understand where you're coming from when you keep insisting that you can't legally buy a gun anywhere without submitting to a background check.

What BBH was originally referring to was the Texas open carry law that was just passed. She's been stating over and over that someone can buy a gun and carry it without a background check or a permit in Texas. That is a false statement she keeps repeating.

I got carried away with my typing because we were heading out to a movie... but you're correct, the private transaction or family gifting can occur without the federal check.

Sorry for the error.