ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT KILLS WOMAN IN SAN FRANCISCO -- the death of Kathryn Steinle

[HairOfTheDog]

I'm starting a dedicated thread for this crime/story. It involves a random shooting death by an oft-deported illegal immigrant/criminal using a gun stolen from a federal law enforcement officer in a sanctuary city.

Lots of political tie-ins on this one.

Copied from Misc Crimes II thread:

Random Murder by Illegal Immigrant with 7 Felony Arrests and 5 Previous Deportations -- San Francisco, CA

This case is very sad and politically controversial.

The man accused of gunning down a 32-year-old Pleasanton woman while she was out strolling San Francisco's Embarcadero with her father was in a Bay Area jail less than four months ago and should have been turned over to federal immigration officials upon his release, instead of being set free, according to the Department of Homeland Security.

But that's not the way the San Francisco County Sheriff's Legal Counsel Freya Horne sees it. In an interview Friday with NBC Bay Area, she said the city and county of San Francisco are sanctuaries for immigrants, and they do not turn over undocumented people – if they don't have active warrants out for them – simply because immigration officials want them to.


Meanwhile, San Francisco Police Chief Greg Suhr said Francisco Sanchez, 46 (above left), who was arrested following the Wednesday evening shooting of Kathryn "Kate" Steidle (above right) along Pier 14, has "made an admission" with regards to the seemingly random death in the middle of a populated part of town.

Kate's parents have mixed feelings about the immigration policy. "It would have been so much better if he were gone. Absolutely," said Steinle's mother, Liz Sullivan. "But we're not dwelling on that,", Jim Steinle said, adding that nothing will bring his daughter back. "It's a non-issue."

Sanctuary cities, which are dotted throughout the United States, don't inquire about immigrants' status for the federal government and actively don't pursue catching undocumented immigrants to deport them. San Francisco's particular ordinance is called the "Due Process Ordinance for All on Civil Immigration Detainers."

The issue is a divisive one. Liberals mostly argue in favor of not reporting immigrants to immigration for deportation, and conservatives, including Republican presidential hopeful Donald Trump, argue that illegal immigrants, especially those that commit crimes, are the reason why the United States should better enforce its borders.

Sanchez, who has about a dozen aliases, was taken into custody after witnesses described him to police. According to Immigration and Customs Enforcement, he is an undocumented immigrant with a long criminal history who has previously been deported to Mexico five times, the last time in 2008. He was last in prison, serving time, for illegally re-entering the United States, ICE records show.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Fra...81541.html

[HairOfTheDog]

Copied from GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, OR DO THEY? thread:

I'm not dissin' that poor family whose daughter was shot & killed with a stolen gun on the San Francisco waterfront but this morning it's being reported that they are a little peeved that the POTUS has not called them.

She was white.

I'm not dissin' that poor family whose daughter was shot & killed with a stolen gun on the San Francisco waterfront but this morning it's being reported that they are a little peeved that the POTUS has not called them.

Hasn't the silence from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue been pretty deafening? Plenty of other shootings Obama's been front and center flapping his mouth, but for some reason he can't even comment on this one?

A shooting involving an innocent victim, who was gunned down by an illegal alien in a sanctuary city will never garner a comment from a person who is pro-illegal alien and pro-sanctuary city. He can't call the parents because they don't fit his agenda, and singing 'Amazing Grace' at her funeral wouldn't have earned him any 'street cred' from his peeps.

He's a disgrace.

[HairOfTheDog]

Victim's Parents Support New Legislation


Kathryn Steinle's parents ^ Liz Sullivan and Jim Steinle appeared on Bill O'Reilly's show last night. They expressed support during a televised interview Monday for a proposed law that would require prison time those who return to the U.S. illegally after being deported.

Kathryn Steinle, 32, was walking along San Francisco’s waterfront with her father on July 1 when police say she was shot by Juan Francisco Lopez-Sanchez, a man who has seven felony convictions and had been deported five times.

Lopez-Sanchez’s alleged role in her death has set off a fierce debate over immigration policies and the lack of cooperation among local, state and federal agencies.

Jim Steinle and Liz Sullivan, both of Pleasanton, Calif., told Fox News host Bill O’Reilly that their daughter’s death has energized them to prevent future crimes by those in the U.S. without documentation.

“We feel the federal, state and cities -- their laws are here to protect us, but we feel that this particular set of circumstances and the people involved, the different agencies let us down,” Jim Steinle said on "The O’Reilly Factor."

Both expressed support for O’Reilly’s proposed “Kate’s Law,” which would impose a five-year federal prison term on those who return to the U.S. illegally after being deported. O’Reilly is collecting signatures for the measure.

“You want to make it so much better for everybody in the United States that this -- as you say, would never happen again,” Sullivan said.

The interview shed new details about Kathryn Steinle's final moments. Jim Steinle said he heard a pop, then his daughter -- who had recently moved to San Francisco for a job -- fell to the ground.

“What did she say before she went down?” O’Reilly asked Jim Steinle.

“Help me, Dad,” he said. Later, he recalled, “We had some kind souls come over, you know, gave her mouth to mouth and did all they could.”

Lopez-Sanchez, 52, pleaded not guilty last week to one count of murder with firearm enhancements. His attorneys contend the shooting was accidental.

In an interview with KGO-TV, Lopez-Sanchez said that he had found the gun wrapped in a T-shirt on the ground near a bench and that it had accidentally fired when he touched it. He also said he had taken powerful sleeping pills.

Officials from the U.S. Bureau of Land Management confirmed last week that the gun used in the shooting had been reported stolen from the vehicle of a federal law enforcement officer four days before Kathryn Steinle’s killing.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me...story.html

[HairOfTheDog]

San Francisco Sheriff Response


^ San Francisco Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi told reporters at a news conference that his department followed procedure and local laws when they released Juan Francisco Lopez Sanchez in April after a years-old arrest warrant on marijuana charges against him was dismissed.

Sanchez is accused of murder in the shooting death a 32-year-old woman July 1 while she was walking along a city pier with her father.

The San Francisco Sheriff's Department citing city policy on immigrants with no violent criminal background, had released Sanchez despite a federal immigration request asking them to hold him until U.S. authorities could take him into custody for deportation proceedings.

Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi is calling for review of how his department and federal authorities communicate. "A tragedy of this dimension requires us all to step back and look at our policies," he said.

"Our policy will continue to reflect the spirit and letter of the law," he added.

CBS San Francisco KPIX reports the sheriff said the feds bear the responsibility for the release of Sanchez.

"I find it incredibly sad and incomprehensible that this tragedy is being used as a platform for political gain," Mirkarimi said.

The slaying has brought heavy criticism down on the city from politicians of both parties and become the latest flashpoint in the debate over how to deal with illegal immigration.

Groups advocating stricter immigration enforcement are hoping the episode leads to closer collaboration between local law enforcement and immigration authorities.

Ref: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/san-francisc...g-suspect/

[BlueTiki]

"Our policy will continue to reflect the spirit and letter of the law," he added.

Too bad Sanctuary Cities and those sworn to uphold the law, consciously and deliberately disregard "the spirit and letter of of" Federal Immigration laws.

I wonder, if extreme Federal gun control legislation come to fruition, many states will, too, declare themselves Sanctuary States for firearm ownership?

Or cities will adopt Sanctuary segregationist polices . . . straight/gay, Christian/Muslim, slave/freeman, . . . NAMBLA?

As an aside . . .

I watched O'Reilly's show last night.

I thought he was on point, compassionate, realistic and fair.

I just might be changing networks.

[HairOfTheDog]

Changing networks is a great option we have in this country, unlike some countries where state-run media is still all there is.

I don't watch a lot of television. But, when I watch the news, I'm always flipping across networks and don't have any to which I feel loyal.

Personally, I'm not a fan of sanctuary cities. But, I understand why they exist and agree with some of the rationale.

When you live in a very diverse population with a lot of immigrants (legal and illegal), it sucks when a sizable portion of the peaceful integrated population is afraid to report crimes and serve in witness capacities because the threat of deportation is always hung over their heads.

On the other hand, deportation of illegal immigrant criminals is stymied due to those same sanctuary philosophies and that sucks too.

Anyway, it's not against the law for state or local authorities to turn down ICE detention requests which aren't accompanied by court orders. But, the Steinle killing has brought the call for a federal law making such cooperation mandatory back to the front-burner.

Bill O'Reilly makes much more sense to me than does Donald Trump on the matter.

[Maggot]

Let the finger pointing commence.

[Duchess]

When Mr. Bone posted that graph showing sanctuary cities I discovered the county I was born and raised in, in NY is considered a sanctuary. I wondered if that is because it's so close to the border but then I saw the entire state of (I think) North Dakota is a sanctuary. So weird I never knew of this until now.

[HairOfTheDog]

North Dakota has a growing Latino and Asian population contributing to the state's economy.

And, there's no evidence that crime is higher in sanctuary cities as compared to similar cities that actively turn over undocumented immigrants to ICE.

I think states and counties with sanctuary cities are due more to how "blue" they are as opposed to their proximity to borders, but I've never researched the correlation.

[Cutz]

The only point I can't believe is that illegal immigrants can get driver's licenses in California.

Do they have to have insurance?

[HairOfTheDog]

The only point I can't believe is that illegal immigrants can get driver's licenses in California.

Do they have to have insurance?

California is the 11^th state to allow undocumented immigrants who can prove residency to get a driver's license.

Insurance is required.

[BlueTiki]

When you live in a very diverse population with a lot of immigrants (legal and illegal), it sucks when a sizable portion of the peaceful integrated population is afraid to report crimes and serve in witness capacities because the threat of deportation is always hung over their heads.

American citizens do not report all crimes . . . witnessed or perpetrated against them.

Look at the estimated statistics of unreported domestic violence and sexual assault . . . theft and property crimes, too.

What evidence exists that shows that by allowing Sanctuary Cities, more crimes are reported than unreported?

[HairOfTheDog]

I haven't researched stats related to sanctuary cities, Tiki.

So, I don't have evidence at my fingertips to support the rationale.

To me, it's common sense. If someone is undocumented and they're a victim or witness to a crime, they're gonna be less likely to report it if they know they will be viewed as a criminal and face possible deportation by interfacing with law enforcement.

I'll see if I can find some evidence one way or the other when I get a chance, but I doubt that it can be quantified.

[BlueTiki]

I'll see if I can find some evidence one way or the other when I get a chance, but I doubt that it can be quantified.

I don't believe it exists.

I truly believe it's one of those "kinda makes sense" arguments.

Like the decrease in crime is due to the increase in white, gun ownership.

Or more gated communities.

Wait! That means a fence . . . !

[HairOfTheDog]

I'll see if I can find some evidence one way or the other when I get a chance, but I doubt that it can be quantified.

I don't believe it exists.

I truly believe it's one of those "kinda makes sense" arguments.

I think it makes a lot of sense, but, yeah, it's hard to prove a definitive correlation.

I see that Mother Jones managed to do it, however!

Murders in San Francisco vs. Similarly Sized Non-Sanctuary Cities

Murders per 100,000 residents in 2013
15.17================== Indianapolis
11.39============ Dallas
11.06 =========== Columbus
10.99========== Jacksonville
6.08======== Fort Worth
5.75====== San Francisco (sanctuary city)

Of course, San Francisco's homicide rate could be the lowest due a myriad of factors other than its sanctuary policy. And, there could be non-sanctuary cities similar to San Francisco that have lower homicide rates. Plus, "homicides" is only one category of crime and Donald Trump says the Mexicans are typically more inclined to push dope and rape white women than to kill people.

So, I was glad to see that Mother Jones dug deeper.

Snip:
Crime rates alone aren't enough to prove that sanctuary laws make us safer, but other evidence suggests the effect on public safety is real.

A 2013 study by the Department of Urban Planning and Policy at the University of Illinois-Chicago surveyed Latinos in Chicago, Houston, Los Angeles, and Phoenix. It found that the increased involvement of local police in immigration enforcement in those cities had eroded trust in the legal system among both legal and illegal immigrants. Of those surveyed, 38 percent said they felt like they were under more suspicion and 45 percent said they were less likely to report a crime as a result—70 percent of the undocumented immigrants said so.

The erosion of trust was felt most acutely in Phoenix, where Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio has put strict immigration enforcement at the center of his agenda. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015...-francisco

I'm betting that there are equally "solid" cases to be made in opposition to sanctuary cities, depending on what data one compares and chooses to correlate.

[BlueTiki]

Murders in San Francisco vs. Similarly Sized Non-Sanctuary Cities

Murders per 100,000 residents in 2013
15.17================== Indianapolis

5.75====== San Francisco (sanctuary city)

So, I was glad to see that Mother Jones dug deeper.

Snip:
Crime rates alone aren't enough to prove that sanctuary laws make us safer, but other evidence suggests the effect on public safety is real.

The erosion of trust was felt most acutely in Phoenix, where Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio has put strict immigration enforcement at the center of his agenda.

Mother Jones!

Phoenix has been "ground zero" as the Nation's most anti-brown state since SB1070.

As you know, Phoenix is not a sanctuary city. In 2013, the homicide rate was 7.9 per 100,000.

SF has been a sanctuary city for more than two decades.

Interestingly, in 2012, SF had a murder rate of 8.4 per 100,000 versus 8.3 for Phoenix. Weird, huh?

Additionally (in 2013), SF had far more robberies, thefts, auto thefts and arson than Phoenix.

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-San...ornia.html

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Pho...izona.html

As these statistics do not identify the race or citizenship of the reporters or offenders, all I can state is SF has a higher crime rate in more categories, as sanctuary city, than Phoenix.

Phoenix is 40% Hispanic. I believe that's almost double the rate for SF.

One might conclude Phoenix beaners are less likely to commit crimes due to the fear of deportation . . . instead of the comfort of reporting them.

[Jimbone]

I wonder if crime rates in sanctuary cities would be higher if they tallied the actual crime that is being committed by the illegal alien being, you know, ILLEGAL and BREAKING THE LAW.

An illegal alien being anywhere in the USA is a crime. Count it in sanctuary cities and their crime rates go through the roof.

[Blindgreed1]

Statistics are so often thrown out to prove a point, but nobody ever takes into account what the variables are when gathering the statistics. A perfect example of that is "Statistically IA's do not commit as many crimes as suburban teenagers." Really? So we know how many IA's there are and we pulled their arrest records and compared them to that of suburban teenagers? And we took into account that every single IA committed a crime by first crossing the border illegally? Fascinating!!!

[HairOfTheDog]

Mother Jones!

I found some more neutral data sources, none of which rendered substantiated evidence or conclusions that we couldn't legitimately poke holes in very easily.

And, those sources weren't as entertaining. I figured Mother Jones would make you laugh too.

Anyway, I can see clear pros and cons to sanctuary cities when it comes to (non-immigration) law enforcement. I don't have an opinion as to whether the pros exceed the cons or vice versa and don't think it can be accurately measured.

[BlueTiki]

California subsidizes illegals' auto insurance . . . don't they?