Cliven Bundy vs. Government land management

[blueberryhill]

Yes, there was a post on Facebook with some site baiting people to argue and bitch to each other......I said something about it should be illegal to be stupid and subject to possible jail and/or fine....while acknowledging the seriousness of it...and that it reminded me of stupid motorist law here in AZ...you get stranded or swept away due to driving through water during storms, you might end up paying for the rescue, i.e, the stupid motorist law....i love it....so this woman posts a video of the victim (who died) "explaining" reasons for his actions ( prior to his death, of course). I did start to watch it, but it was 29 minutes long so didn't watch until the end, but my point is that, for the most part, these posters were outraged that he was killed in "cold blood" and that this group's actions were completely justified.

I replied that joining an armed militia group was never the right way to protest and chances of dying are high, etc....Wow, it is amazing the number of people who support the Bundy gang.....

[Duchess]

These are not bright people, just disgruntled dimwits

In itself it's not unusual to me that they don't recognize how ridiculous they look, but I find the number of people who agree with and support them to be incredible. I don't know people like this so it's not exactly scary to me but in the bigger sense, it sorta is.

[HairOfTheDog]

It seems like a lot of people support the Bundys if you're looking at internet comments and Facebook.

And, 10,000 people is a lot of people, for sure.

But, in a country of 320,000,000, it's a miniscule percentage. There have always been groups of extremists like these; hundreds of them with several thousand members across the country.

Even today, FBI Director Comey qualifies domestic terrorist groups the biggest threat to the United States, and the numbers support his contention. https://www.fbi.gov/news/testimony/the-t...ted-states

I don't know if the FBI will be classifying Ammon Bundy's organization as domestic terrorists or not, I'm just pointing out that a lot of law enforcement effort goes into thwarting crimes planned by groups of disgruntled American citizens. They make up a very small percentage of the population, but are still potentially dangerous.

Domestic terrorism is the unlawful use, or threatened use, of violence by a group or individual based and operating entirely within the United States (or its territories) without foreign direction committed against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.

[Duchess]

if you're looking at internet comments and Facebook.

Yeah. I followed a link or two that Adub posted and I've read some of what the people are posting. I couldn't relate to anything that was posted. I don't view our government or any authorities like they do.

[aussiefriend]

Isn't it a given that if something is labelled 'top secret' by anyone, it's going to get out?

[Maggot]

Only if they tell you!

[aussiefriend]

Only if they tell you!

Oh, if they tell me, it's definitely going to get out.

[HairOfTheDog]

I hope the final four occupiers are vacated today.

They need to get the hell outta there and let people get back to work and start repairing the wildlife center building. All four of them seem to need mental health treatment, to me.

Yesterday, their internet and cell phone connections were reportedly cut, except for incoming calls for one or two of them. http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standof...at_yo.html

[blueberryhill]

I hope the final four occupiers are vacated today.

They need to get the hell outta there and let people get back to work and start repairing the wildlife center building. All four of them seem to need mental health treatment, to me.

Yesterday, their internet and cell phone connections were reportedly cut, except for incoming calls for one or two of them. http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standof...at_yo.html

Hopefully, their facebook page wasn't taken down before they saw my post; I just told them what I thought of their actions.....guess I posted it 2 days ago.....
Wonder if the calls I keep getting with Oregon area code are related? When I answer, there is just heavy breathing....

[Maggot]

I hope the final four occupiers are vacated today.

They need to get the hell outta there and let people get back to work and start repairing the wildlife center building. All four of them seem to need mental health treatment, to me.

Yesterday, their internet and cell phone connections were reportedly cut, except for incoming calls for one or two of them. http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standof...at_yo.html

Hopefully, their facebook page wasn't taken down before they saw my post; I just told them what I thought of their actions.....guess I posted it 2 days ago.....
Wonder if the calls I keep getting with Oregon area code are related? When I answer, there is just heavy breathing....

That's the guy downstairs Wilma.

[blueberryhill]

I hope the final four occupiers are vacated today.

They need to get the hell outta there and let people get back to work and start repairing the wildlife center building. All four of them seem to need mental health treatment, to me.

Yesterday, their internet and cell phone connections were reportedly cut, except for incoming calls for one or two of them. http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standof...at_yo.html

Hopefully, their facebook page wasn't taken down before they saw my post; I just told them what I thought of their actions.....guess I posted it 2 days ago.....
Wonder if the calls I keep getting with Oregon area code are related? When I answer, there is just heavy breathing....

That's the guy downstairs Wilma.

I don't have a downstairs, Homer!

[HairOfTheDog]

I wish LE would just arrest Cliven Bundy already -- the instigating, bigoted, mooching, tax-evading, religious extremist, old bastard.



But, maybe they're worried that would just incite the anti-government types and 'patriot militias' looking for any reason or cause to arm-up and challenge the authority of LE / government?

In a notarized letter from Clark County, Nevada, Cliven Bundy wrote to Harney County Sheriff David Ward that “We the People of Harney County and also We the People of the citizens of the United States DO GIVE NOTICE THAT WE WILL RETAIN POSSESSION OF THE HARNEY COUNTY RESOURCE CENTER. (Malhaur [sic] National Wildlife Refuge).”

The letter was also sent by certified mail to Oregon Gov. Kate Brown and President Barack Obama.

There are four unstable dolts left at the refuge, that's more than clear from their own words and actions, in my opinion. Yet, Cliven is egging them on, which sure doesn't help his sons any.

The attorneys for Cliven’s son, Ammon Bundy, wouldn’t comment on the letter. But in the last week, Ammon Bundy and his counsel have repeatedly called for an end to the occupation. “I have asked those people at the refuge to go home,” Bundy told a federal judge in court Friday. “This was never about an armed standoff.”

A person reached at Cliven Bundy’s ranch Monday confirmed the authenticity of the letter but said the elder Bundy was only taking calls from “fellow patriots” and militants for the rest of the day.

Ref: http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-ore...-continue/

[HairOfTheDog]

Grand Jury Indicts 16

In early January, occupiers of a wildlife refuge in eastern Oregon mulled how the siege would end and what would become of them, including facing prison or dying.

What they did not anticipate was an apparent splinter group of armed occupiers ignoring their pleas and refusing to leave the remote Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

Now frustration is mounting as the holdouts cloud the fate of nine former occupiers in custody, charged with conspiracy to impede federal officers. Two others were released on condition that they wear tracking devices as they await trial.

A judge has cited the continuing standoff as a major obstacle to the release of at least some of those who remain in custody.

Last week, Andrew Kohlmetz, an attorney for arrested protester Jason Patrick, referred to the holdouts as "four idiots" at odds with his client's aims.

At a court hearing on Wednesday for Bundy and the other defendants, prosecutors revealed they had obtained a grand jury indictment against 16 people, including the defendants, said Bundy's attorney Mike Arnold.

Gerri Badden, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Attorney's Office in Portland, declined to disclose details and said the document would be unsealed on Thursday morning. (HOTD: I'll post the doc when it becomes available.)


Ref: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/oreg...80b2452155

[HairOfTheDog]

I'm assuming the 16 indictments are for the 11 militants who were arrested + the 4 militants still occupying the wildlife center.

I hope Cliven Bundy is among the 16 indicted.

I've been wondering why Blaine Cooper wasn't among those arrested, and now wonder whether he's among those who were indicted. Blaine Cooper, a key player at the Bundy ranch stand-off in 2014 and a leader of the Oregon occupation, now says he was at the wildlife center after LaVoy was killed and the others were arrested, but he left shortly thereafter. He also claims that neither LaVoy nor anyone who was arrested that night was armed. He's full of shit.

Cooper is the guy who patriot John Hildinger labels an 'informant" (post 47).

[Duchess]

I think their supporters are all flakes. I've seen what some of them have to say and they are fricken blind...they might be deaf and dumb too. Uh huh.

[Adub]

https://www.flashalert.net/id/OregonStateSheriffsAssoc

Response to Questions Regarding the Oregon Office of Sheriff - 02/04/16

Sheriffs in all 36 Oregon counties have taken an oath to support the Constitution of the United States, the Constitution of Oregon, and the laws thereof. Our oath is our pledge to you, to be conservators of the peace for our citizens, while being respectful of the rights afforded to all of us under the Constitution.

What a great state and nation we live in that allows everyone to express their opinion, hold a sign in protest, lobby for change and live free without fear of retaliation from the government. Our founding fathers created a system of government consisting of three branches: legislative, judicial and executive.

Sheriffs and Sheriff's Offices are part of the executive branch, charged with enforcement of laws as directed by the legislative branch and interpreted by the judicial branch. Under our system of government, the judicial branch is given the authority to interpret the Constitutionality of our laws. We are a nation of laws, and the executive branch cannot override the laws passed by the legislative branch, nor can we ignore the clear guidance of the judicial branch. There is a process for changing the laws of our great nation and for amending our Constitution, and that process does not involve the armed takeover of government facilities and disruption of an entire community. We fully support the expression of political opinions, and advocating for change within the legal system -- that is what sets our country apart from developing countries where the government is changed by an armed takeover.

Recently, men and women have broken the law and encouraged others to take up arms against our local and federal governments. These individuals have used firearms and their interpretation of the Constitution to justify their criminal behavior. These militia men and women have broken into publicly owned buildings, disrespected Native American heritage and intimidated and harassed local residents and officials.

These men and women are asking for change, and we support their right to challenge our government to make change. However, we do not agree with or support any citizen or elected official who would advocate for change in a manner that includes illegal action, threats of violence, or violence against any citizen of the United States.

[Adub]

I'm assuming the 16 indictments are for the 11 militants who were arrested + the 4 militants still occupying the wildlife center.

I hope Cliven Bundy is among the 16 indicted.

I've been wondering why Blaine Cooper wasn't among those arrested, and now wonder whether he's among those who were indicted. Blaine Cooper, a key player at the Bundy ranch stand-off in 2014 and a leader of the Oregon occupation, now says he was at the wildlife center after LaVoy was killed and the others were arrested, but he left shortly thereafter. He also claims that neither LaVoy nor anyone who was arrested that night was armed. He's full of shit.

Cooper is the guy who patriot John Hildinger labels an 'informant" (post 47).

It is the four still at the refuge. And the other is the guy that was arrested in town driving a refuge vehicle. So that is the sixteen.

Neither of the Coopers. And they were very much involved. Even Shawna Cox's husband was there for most of the time. Not so sure Pete Santilli should be included. I think he will be the next to be released on home detention. Bundy and the rest should not get bail. Ever. Make them sit it out locked-up until the trial.

[Donovan]

I really think the FBI let these guys go for so long just to get a good picture of the support they actually have rather than internet chatter. Anybody who thinks the return addresses of all incoming mail weren't logged and recorded is fooling themselves.

[HairOfTheDog]

Thanks for the info Adub.

The Oregon's Sheriffs' response is accurate and well stated, in my opinion.

So the 16^th person indicted is Medenbach. Kind of a let down. He definitely deserves to be charged, but I think Cliven and Cooper need to be held accountable moreso for their key roles in Nevada and Oregon. Huge criminal assholes, both of them.

[Adub]

Thanks for the info Adub.

The Oregon's Sheriffs' response is accurate and well stated, in my opinion.

So the 16^th person indicted is Medenbach. Kind of a let down. He definitely deserves to be charged, but I think Cliven and Cooper need to be held accountable moreso for their key roles in Nevada and Oregon. Huge criminal assholes, both of them.

But Santilli will remain held on no bail. I was wrong there. Seems hate radio just took a hit with that one.

Just read this article.

Right-Wing Extremists Are a Bigger Threat to America Than ISIS

By Kurt Eichenwald On 2/4/16 at 6:02 AM

Who are these right-wing militants? And what makes them believe Americans have to engage in armed combat with their own government rather than vote, kill their fellow citizens rather than tolerate differences, blow up buildings rather than just get a job? Billions of words have been written and spoken on violent Islamic extremists. The time has come to do the same for the good old-fashioned Americans who may pose the greatest threat to us all.

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/12/right...22743.html