CONFEDERATE MONUMENTS

[Duchess]

I read, "think how absurd it would be to erect a memorial to Bin Laden in the middle of Ground Zero to preserve history".

[Duchess]

*crickets*

[HairOfTheDog]

*crickets*

I don't think the Bin Laden statue at Ground Zero is a fair analogy. There aren't Americans whose ancestors fought and died in the U.S., under the direction of Bin Laden, for a cause they believed in.

A better, but not perfect, analogy would be German districts erecting monuments of Nazi figures years after Germany was defeated and the Holocaust ended...... and leaving them up to this day.

It's easy for me to understand how Jews and decent people of all religious backgrounds in Germany would be seriously pained by that public glorification of oppression and death. It's easy to understand how Jews and others who oppose discrimination would see those statues and symbols as anything but charming and beautiful.

Germany did the opposite in reality, of course. It acknowledged the terrible wrongness of the Nazi cause and scrubbed the country of public Nazi monuments, swastikas, etc..., which in no way changed or erased history.

The Civil War most definitely was about slavery, no matter how some people try to deny or deflect that fact. Yeah, the rebel army was fighting for states' rights and economic freedom..........but southern states' rights to continue enslaving blacks and practicing slave labor was central to their cause. That's just fact and is clearly stated in the early Confederate manifestos of the time (I posted some references in the REBEL FLAG thread so won't do it again). It's not an accident that modern white supremists adopted the Confederate flag as a symbol for their cause.

Anyway, the controversy and debate over Confederate monuments and flags in the U.S. is not new. It's been going on for years and years, we're just hearing about it more now as the heat rises in this racially-charged political environment.

[Duchess]

the REBEL FLAG thread

I've thought about that thread many times in the past year, maybe longer. I have some shame connected to my opinion at the time. It sure has evolved since then.

I still have that flag. I never flew it. It's folded up somewhere here in my office.

[Jimbone]

There's so much wrong with the comparison that even crickets are silent actually.

New York is going to remove statues from the CUNY hall of great Americans (Jackson and Lee). New York is also pushing for the military to rename streets on base to be less offensive. Ironically, New York (city and state) is named after one of the most prolific slave traders ever. Want to guess if they'll suggest changing the name of their state and city?

Is Malcom X Blvd. on the list of street names that should be changed? For over a decade he espoused that white people were the devil, blacks are superior, and every other hateful teaching of the Nation of Islam. Nope. Schools, streets, parks, memorials to him will remain untouched.

Add Robert Byrd from West Virginia to that list as well. He started his own KKK chapter, recruited other white supremacists, and became their leader. His honorary namings will remain as well.

Yale University is named for Elihu Yale, also one of the periods slave traders. He oversaw the kidnapping and enslavement of children! In fact, slavery and/or the slave trade helped build and finance most of the Ivy League universities we know today.

What we're witnessing now is hysteria, selective moral outrage, and political opportunism. Period.

Sir Charles has it right:

https://twitter.com/RickKarle/status/898...36/video/1

[Duchess]

What we're witnessing now is hysteria, selective moral outrage, and political opportunism. Period.

What do you have to say about some of the descendants coming forward and requesting their family member's monument be removed?

[Jimbone]

What do you have to say about some of the descendants coming forward and requesting their family member's monument be removed?

I'm sure there are other descendants with a contrary view to theirs. They're entitled to their opinion, just like everyone else. It's no more or less important than yours or mine.

[Maggot]

Where do the statues that have been taken down go?

[Carsman]

Where do the statues that have been taken down go?

Of course to "Statue Heaven".

Others call it the Junk Yard!

[Maggot]

I bet they are in someones back yard, they are works of art and should stay that way. And I thought only ISIS destroyed that stuff.

[Carsman]

Yes, they are works of art.

But they are no longer revered by those who removed them!

[Duchess]

Maybe someone could open a racist museum and all that stuff could go there. You could get some curators to run around America gathering all the racist monuments and flags and every other thing of that nature. Like Cars said, necessity is the mother of invention.

[Maggot]

Imagine in the future all statues, churches, library's could be removed and replaced by statues like this one in Washington state. Lenin, Stalin, Chairman Mao ...........all those great men of the people comrade.




Vote Democrat and vote often.

[Duchess]

I have concerns about the monuments being removed and I'm unsure if it's something I would support. I understand the desire to remove them but on the other hand it is history.

[Maggot]

It bugs me too. They have stood for many years, now today all of a sudden they are bad? It's people that have changed and not in a good way.

[Duchess]

It's people that have changed and not in a good way.

I think it started with participation trophies.   Hate those fuckin' things and I don't even have a dog in that fight. I cannot imagine where I would be in life if I hadn't ever failed at doing things. I have a lot to say about parents who let their kids rule the roost and who protect them from failure. I don't know why that shit bugs me but it does.

[Maggot]

Another thing is memory. Today nobody knows anyone's phone number they just look in their phones. Getting anywhere is just GPS so nobody pays attention how to get anywhere, then there are schools that don't even teach multiplication tables. Memory is not getting used like it did.

[Duchess]

I agree with that too! Another thing, try getting one of those little bastards to make change without the aid of a cash register or calculator. Many are stumped! I recently told you guys about the teens and the rotary phone too. Man.

[Fry Guy]

Another thing is memory. Today nobody knows anyone's phone number they just look in their phones. Getting anywhere is just GPS so nobody pays attention how to get anywhere, then there are schools that don't even teach multiplication tables. Memory is not getting used like it did.

Met a girl in 1991 New Year's. Both blind drunk. Told me her number. Remembered it when i crashed out at about 6am and when i woke at noon. Wrote it down when i got home at 7pm. Lined up a date at 7pm the next night.

Memory is a resource.

[BigMark]

Best ten seconds of her life.