SAUDI ARABIA & THE DISAPPEARANCE OF JOURNALIST JAMAL KHASHOGGI

[Duchess]

It's fucked up alright.

It sends a strong message to dictators and autocrats that the U.S. is weak/dependent and will no longer take a stand against human rights offenses  unless that stand comes easy and cheap.

If MBS ordered a hit squad to grab up and/or take out Khashoggi (to which all circumstantial evidence now points), any adequately substantial retaliation by the U.S. isn't likely to come from our Commander In Chief.

There are some awful headlines this morning. What kind of sick sonofabitch provides cover for a murdering dictator?! The president of the United States, that's who. Jesus Christ. He's always been an international embarrassment but this takes it to a whole new level.

[HairOfTheDog]

There are some awful headlines this morning. What kind of sick sonofabitch provides cover for a murdering dictator?! The president of the United States, that's who. Jesus Christ. He's always been an international embarrassment but this takes it to a whole new level.

Yeah, I've seen those headlines and wish there was a real and impartial investigation underway to gather all the evidence and get to the truth.

I don't blame Trump for not declaring Saudi Arabia guilty of murder and not cutting off Saudi Arabia at the knees at this moment.  

There's a lot at stake in terms of the power balance in the Middle East, and Turkey needs to pony up all the evidence in their hands (if they haven't already).

But, I do blame Trump for acting like a typical criminal defense attorney in the global public realm.  It reflects very poorly on the U.S. and sends a terrible and dangerous message to other world leaders, in my opinion.

[HairOfTheDog]

I think it would have been wiser and more strategic for the POTUS to denounce the forced disappearance/alleged murder of a U.S.-based journalist in the strongest possible terms, assure the world that the U.S. is driving the push for an impartial investigation, and refrain from floating conspiracy theories or absolving anyone until evidence and impacts had been reviewed by the appropriate U.S. Intelligence and Foreign Relations officials/experts.

[Maggot]

Don't worry as soon as Trump shows he is really doing something about it the media will drop the subject like a hot potato. The only reason it's even in the news is as an attempt to take a dump on Trump. Iran was killing people left and right when Obama and Kerry was kissing their ass, not a word from the media about that. 

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't agree Mags.

Whenever Trump is rightly criticized............his no-matter-what loyalists (and he himself) try to paint Trump as the victim, blame the media, and make a comparison to other administrations in attempt to justify Trump's unwise words and actions.

For the record, there was plenty of negative media coverage regarding Obama and Kerry's dealings with Iran and the fact that state-sponsored terrorism wasn't addressed in the Iran Nuclear Deal.

And, Obama and Kerry were working to reduce an Iranian nuclear threat. They were not in any way defending Iran for murder and alleged murder, instead they acknowledged and denounced it repeatedly.

President Trump is responsible for his own words and actions, though he and his supporters rarely assign him accountability for them.

[BigMark]

If with the previous knowledge and or approval of the Saudi government then some real punishment must be enacted.

[Duchess]

If with the previous knowledge and or approval of the Saudi government then some real punishment must be enacted.

What would the punishment be for the United States?

[BigMark]

If we were complicit?

[HairOfTheDog]

It's well-known that Trump watches, listens, hires, and consults with FOX personalities who loyally promote him.

Shep Smith is an actual journalist who works at FOX and sometimes pushes back hard when he thinks the Republicans and the President are peddling pure bullshit.

So, I doubt Trump listens to Smith, which is unfortunate in this case.

I think Smith is right on the money.

[Duchess]

If we were complicit?

I think the United States knew the Saudis wanted Jamal and they didn't warn him. I believe trump knew about it from his own intelligence briefings and he went before the American public and lied. Again. The same way he lied about the Russian interference in our elections. He was briefed on that as well.

[HairOfTheDog]

Jamal Khashoggi had been a Washington Post contributor for about a year before his disappearance and presumed death this month.

Last night, the Washington Post published Khashoggi's last piece.  

The Post's global opinions editor had been holding it in hopes that Khashoggi would return to participate in the editing process.

The piece focuses on freedom of the press and freedom of speech, written in Khashoggi's typical moderate style.

Following are excerpts from Khashoggi's final op-ed for the Washington Post (starting at post #74).

[BigMark]

Knowing he was wanted is way different than knowing they were going to chop him up, what the hell is wrong with you?

[Duchess]

Knowing he was wanted is way different than knowing they were going to chop him up, what the hell is wrong with you?

You're naive.

[HairOfTheDog]

Jamal Khashoggi: What the Arab world needs most is free expression

I was recently online looking at the 2018 “Freedom in the World” report published by Freedom House and came to a grave realization. There is only one country in the Arab world that has been classified as “free.” That nation is Tunisia. 

As a result, Arabs are either uninformed or misinformed. They are unable to adequately address, much less publicly discuss, matters that affect the region and their day-to-day lives.

A state-run narrative dominates the public psyche, and while many do not believe it, a large majority of the population falls victim to this false narrative. Sadly, this situation is unlikely to change.

My dear friend, the prominent Saudi writer Saleh al-Shehi, wrote one of the most famous columns ever published in the Saudi press. He unfortunately is now serving an unwarranted five-year prison sentence for supposed comments contrary to the Saudi establishment.  Arab governments have been given free rein to continue silencing the media at an increasing rate.

(continued)

[HairOfTheDog]

There was a time when journalists believed the Internet would liberate information from the censorship and control associated with print media. 

But these governments, whose very existence relies on the control of information, have aggressively blocked the Internet. They have also arrested local reporters and pressured advertisers to harm the revenue of specific publications.

There are a few oases that continue to embody the spirit of the Arab Spring. Qatar’s government continues to support international news coverage, in contrast to its neighbors’ efforts to uphold the control of information to support the “old Arab order.”

Even in Tunisia and Kuwait, where the press is considered at least “partly free,” the media focuses on domestic issues but not issues faced by the greater Arab world. They are hesitant to provide a platform for journalists from Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Yemen. Even Lebanon, the Arab world’s crown jewel when it comes to press freedom, has fallen victim to the polarization and influence of pro-Iran Hezbollah.

My publication, The Post, has taken the initiative to translate many of my pieces and publish them in Arabic. For that, I am grateful. Arabs need to read in their own language so they can understand and discuss the various aspects and complications of democracy in the United States and the West.

The Arab world needs a modern version of the old transnational media so citizens can be informed about global events. More important, we need to provide a platform for Arab voices.

We suffer from poverty, mismanagement and poor education. Through the creation of an independent international forum, isolated from the influence of nationalist governments spreading hate through propaganda, ordinary people in the Arab world would be able to address the structural problems their societies face.

Full piece:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/...88669c300d

[BigMark]

You put the sin in cynical.

[HairOfTheDog]

Knowing he was wanted is way different than knowing they were going to chop him up, what the hell is wrong with you?

You're naive.

The intel reportedly captured MBS expressing a desire to catch/abduct Khashoggi due to his opinion pieces advocating for reform in Saudi Arabia and the Arab world.

Since he was not 'wanted' in the sense that he was suspected of a crime in Saudi Arabia and on the run, I'd like to think Khashoggi would have been warned by U.S. LE.  

Maybe he was warned and figured he'd be okay in Turkey.  Or, maybe the U.S. intel wasn't discovered until Khashoggi's disappearance.  Or, equally plausible to me, the intel was discovered real-time but Khashoggi wasn't warned because he was not a U.S. citizen and the U.S. looks the other way a lot in regards to human rights abuses by the Saudis.

[Duchess]

You put the sin in cynical.

Cynical in regards to trump and his administration? Ahahahahahahahahaha.

[Duchess]

the intel was discovered real-time but Khashoggi wasn't warned because he was not a U.S. citizen and the U.S. looks the other way a lot in regards to human rights abuses by the Saudis.

I read a report that said when Pompeo gave that photo-op supporting the Saudis that $100 million was given to the United States.

[HairOfTheDog]

the intel was discovered real-time but Khashoggi wasn't warned because he was not a U.S. citizen and the U.S. looks the other way a lot in regards to human rights abuses by the Saudis.

I read a report that said when Pompeo gave that photo-op supporting the Saudis that $100 million was given to the United States.

Yep, that's been confirmed.  

Saudi Arabia publicly pledged the payment to support U.S. stabilization efforts in northeastern Syria back in August, but questions persisted about when and if Saudi officials would come through with the money.

Yesterday, they suddenly ponied up the full amount.  For what it's worth, the U.S. State Department says the timing is just a coincidence