Iraq

[Cynical Ninja]

Pretty straightforward really, is the current situation in Iraq an essential fight for freedom in a dangerous part of the world or is it an expensive (in terms of lives and money) clusterfuck?

[Sinister]

Total and absolute clusterfuck. And I'm sick of hearing about this shit, so that is all I have to say.

For now.

[Sinister]

Thanks, Poophole, now you've got me thinking about this shit. Fucker.

Why is it that America thinks we need to impose our way of life on the rest of the world? Are we so arrogant that we think the rest of the world should be like us or they are a lesser culture/race/whatever?

This whole war is bullshit and if we were to learn what is really behind it, I bet we'd be totally pissed about the real story. What we don't know about our government is what scares me. What we do know is bad enough.

100 bucks says Poophole has a hard-on right now. ::lmao::

[newbiecollector]

I aint takin that bet.......your on a sure winner there Sin

[Liquid]

Pretty straightforward really, is the current situation in Iraq an essential fight for freedom in a dangerous part of the world or is it an expensive (in terms of lives and money) clusterfuck?

I think it started as a fight for freedom and has become a clusterfuck. The war was initiated on some faulty information, but once in, we can not get out easily. So for all the reasons that will probably be exhaustively discussed in this thread, I will lean towards clusterfuck.

[Cynical Ninja]

Thanks, Poophole, now you've got me thinking about this shit. Fucker.

Why is it that America thinks we need to impose our way of life on the rest of the world? Are we so arrogant that we think the rest of the world should be like us or they are a lesser culture/race/whatever?

This whole war is bullshit and if we were to learn what is really behind it, I bet we'd be totally pissed about the real story. What we don't know about our government is what scares me. What we do know is bad enough.

100 bucks says Poophole has a hard-on right now. ::lmao::

I never think of it in terms of America did that and America did this. I always think of it in terms of Bush and his cronies did that and Bush and his cronies did that.
This whole thing was about two things :-

1 - Revenge - Which Arab country is currently the weakest we can take out our revenge on for 9/11?, and an element of the son finishing "daddy's" unfinished business.

2 - Money - Blood for oil, literally, Bush and all his cronies have made a lot of blood stained moolah out the whole thing.

Bush and his cronies couldn't give a flying fuck about the lives of the US military and the lives of innocent Iraqi people they are just expendable collateral damage on the path to making billions.

[Duchess]

Clusterfuck.....But, would never admit that publicly 'cuz of loved ones dealing with Bush's mess.

[Momster]

Thanks, Poophole, now you've got me thinking about this shit. Fucker.

Why is it that America thinks we need to impose our way of life on the rest of the world? Are we so arrogant that we think the rest of the world should be like us or they are a lesser culture/race/whatever?

This whole war is bullshit and if we were to learn what is really behind it, I bet we'd be totally pissed about the real story. What we don't know about our government is what scares me. What we do know is bad enough.

100 bucks says Poophole has a hard-on right now. ::lmao::

I never think of it in terms of America did that and America did this. I always think of it in terms of Bush and his cronies did that and Bush and his cronies did that.
This whole thing was about two things :-

1 - Revenge - Which Arab country is currently the weakest we can take out our revenge on for 9/11?, and an element of the son finishing "daddy's" unfinished business.

2 - Money - Blood for oil, literally, Bush and all his cronies have made a lot of blood stained moolah out the whole thing.

Bush and his cronies couldn't give a flying fuck about the lives of the US military and the lives of innocent Iraqi people they are just expendable collateral damage on the path to making billions.

poopy,oh god*big breath* Gets my vote on this one

[Zenith]

Goddamed cluster fucking fuck!

[Maggot]

Go back to 1997 read the papers printed then..........read the papers today.......tell me things are not better. Everyone has ²⁰⁄₂₀ hindsight. I agree it could have been done better.

Today tell me how it should be run better. When we look back it is easy to see the mistakes. We were all there at ⁹⁄₁₁ and had a need for blood.But to look into that grand crystal ball and say "Itshall be done number 1" not a single person on this forum has the balls to take on that responsibility to make the right decision and not have any concessions, not one. We as armchair Politician's are always right as the wind blows.

Bunch of Sallies.::flip::

[Maggot]

I would like to add that Iraq is considered the "Jewell of the Middle East" and everybody has a lust for that land. It may come to pass that Iraq democracy spreads to their neighbors. It may not. Time will tell in this fast food world looking for instant gratification. I believe that nothing is easy and that this time spent there is not a wasted effort. No matter what comes from it it may at least gain the middle east some kind of civility. Iran was on the right track for a few years. It is the people that live there in the end that will decide.

[AnonyMoose]

Pretty straightforward really, is the current situation in Iraq an essential fight for freedom in a dangerous part of the world or is it an expensive (in terms of lives and money) clusterfuck?

Some thoughts in no apparent order.

1. There are times in this world where a very bad person needs to be taken out. Saddam was the sickest sadist since Adolf Hitler. We had the ability to take him out, and as human beings our obligation to humanity had to take precidence over anything else. Anyone with a soul and children might want to look at the first picture at this link: http://www.kdp.se/old/chemical.html

2. An unstable oil region would cost millions of lives, some even in America. Without oil hospitals would have to run without power, ambulances and firemen do not get to emergencies, etc.

3. America is great at winning wars decisively, but has no clue how to police that country afterwards. Military are trained to kill the enemy. Totally different mission than civil cops controlling a culture that does not even speak English.


ETA: Of note is that I had a dog in the race. I served in Operation Desert Shield and Operation Desert Storm.

[Middle Finger]

If true, thanks for serving.

[AnonyMoose]

If true, thanks for serving.

I didn't do it for you, loser.

[Middle Finger]

If true, thanks for serving.

I didn't do it for you, loser.

Yes you did - even if indirectly.

[AnonyMoose]

If true, thanks for serving.

I didn't do it for you, loser.

Yes you did - even if indirectly.

Wrong, deluded asshole. I served (and continue to serve to this day) because I want to protect freedom for my children. They could turn you into fucking dog food like a bad scene from Soylent Green and I wouldn't give two shits. The only reason you have any value in my life is because you maintain this board and I have a few friends here. And don't get all sappy - you aren't one of them bitch. ::lmao::

[Sinister]

Damn....that was harsh.

I liked it....

[Middle Finger]

If true, thanks for serving.

I didn't do it for you, loser.

Yes you did - even if indirectly.

Wrong, deluded asshole. I served (and continue to serve to this day) because I want to protect freedom for my children. They could turn you into fucking dog food like a bad scene from Soylent Green and I wouldn't give two shits. The only reason you have any value in my life is because you maintain this board and I have a few friends here. And don't get all sappy - you aren't one of them bitch. ::lmao::

Good God, talk about being a drama queen. You're really romanticizing and glorifying serving fucking dessert and waiting tables during storms. ::nuts::

[AnonyMoose]

Good God, talk about being a drama queen. You're really romanticizing and glorifying serving fucking dessert and waiting tables during storms. ::nuts::

They were scary storms. People have been killed by hail.

[crash]

I don't think it was a clusterfuck at all, and whether or not you think it was essential would depend on which side of the capitalist/paranoia fence you stood. This war was about WMD's as much as George W. was making the decisions for his administration.... Good ole W. might have been pulling the trigger, but I don't think anyone will ever find out who was loading the gun, and it was well co-ordinated and propaganda-ised, and plenty of gullible civilians around the world believed it at first, not your average cluster....

By the time the general public of the globe started to accept that ths war was on the nose, the US (and its many allies) had already secured back their future supply of black gold and flexed their muscles in case the middle east were getting any ideas about holding it over their heads, still doesn't really fit the criteria of a cluster, objective completed really...

I hate voicing this cynical opinion, for I believe it makes it look like I don't give a toss about the deaths of those who gave their lives for their countries in the belief that they were doing so for a better future, but their blood is on the hands of the strategists that decided the collateral damage was worth the price of supply. I will bow my head and thank them still