Johnny S. Clarke & Lisa Straub- young Ohio couple murdered

[tlynne]

OFF TOPIC - One thing that fascinates me a bit is how ALL of the 25+ people we have been talking about for the past 600 pages claim 'sales' or 'chasin paper' as their occupation on FB. How on earth does Toledo have so many drug dealers inside one small-ish city? Are there that many crackheads in Toledo?

I think Toledo is basically a centralized location where the drugs get distributed out to the smaller suburbs around the area (such as Perrysburg) and then even to the small towns surrounding Toledo. I grew up an hour away from Toledo in a really small country town (like one stoplight kinda small) and I know for a fact that people in these towns drive to Toledo to get their product. Kind of a trickle-down effect. When all these people are referring to "chasin paper" though, it's not only in reference to dealing drugs, they will do anything to make a couple bucks! I live over by the Toledo zoo, dangerously close to the dirty south end, and just recently there's been a bunch of gaming systems stolen from homes in an area not too far from my house. Someone probably needed to make some quick cash, no doubt they're all on craigslist now!

[Freshbait78]

Ditto. I agree with this also. Also, someone posted that only a professional would take the time to lock the door behind them. IMO not so. Not if they knew they had plenty of time & would not be interrupted. Also if this was done professionally, don't you think that they would have been concerned that JC was on the phone with an unknown? I've said this before, the perps unless in cahoots with Tiffany, would have no way of knowing who he was on the phone with & I believe would not have felt so free to do alll of the things that we've heard were done.

We're talking, ransacking, holes in walls, vents removed, struggle downstairs, I've heard LS was hit with a baseball bat, I've heard LS had her tongue cut or cut out, I've heard rape, I've heard pistol whipped, I've heard robbery & then ofcourse we all know that they were bound with tape & suffocated. That all takes time. I find it extremely hard to believe that JC was on the phone when these professional hitmen walked up & then took the time to carry out this crime. Unless he wasn't really on the phone, in which case I would ask.... why would Tiffany lie about it. However I do think he was on the phone, I just don't think the call went down the way it's been reported. JMO

That's why I really wish the autopsy report would be released. So we'd know for sure if any of the above happened to Lisa. I don't think the perps were in the house all that long. jmo

OK say the autopsy results come back & the only injury she has aside from the marks or injury to the neck is that she was pistol whipped. This was initial explination by the majority to account for the blood in the bag. Her uncle has stated that the bedroom was ransacked, looked like a movie, there was a struggle downstairs with plants etc knocked over & we know that they were bound & suffocated. Even without a knock on the head from a baseball bat, a rape, or a tongue cutting.... how many minutes are we talking here for just the minimum?

1. there was a fight struggle of some sort
2. there was a ransacking in the master bedroom/holes punched in the walk in closet walls
3. there was binding & suffocation of 2 people

I'll even leave out the pistol whipping

4. There was an unnoticed departure from the residence

How long would all of that take? I'm thinking MINIMUM 15 minutes. As I said, that's a really risky chance for someone to take if they don't know who's on the phone & heard the confrontation & a big assumption that that person wouldn't come over or summon authorities. IMO

[Jane]

I'm sure TW was going over to buy drugs, and big tine dealers usually keep a close eye on who their "runners" sell too. On top of that, JC could have been TW's dealer, there's a ranking system when it come to drug dealing and the ones t the top only have a select few they deal with. Therefore, I don't think they would be concerned at all if he was on the phone...assuming it was someone he was selling to, would know the reprecutions if they snitched. If you go back to when TW was anawering questions on the thread, she made it clear JC dealt with a lot of people that was kept on the down-low, again under the assumption there's a ranking system when it comes to the diatribution/selling of drugs.

I believe you're right about the "ranking system". I still think the reason Tiffany didn't call LE right away, was because SHE was going to get drugs from JC. In MY mind, it makes sense she wouldn't call LE, if that's the case. You just don't run & call the cops, in cases like this. She knew Johnny was a big guy, & probably deep into drug dealing, & honestly, probably thought he had everything under control. If those words were the only ones she heard, she MAY have figured something bad might be going down, but since everything revolved around drugs, she decided to wait it out, & see if she could get hold of him later. That's not far-fetched, imo. IF this was a professional hit, & Tiffany was to set Johnny up, then I don't believe she'd have EVER called ANYONE that night. Much less actually go over to the home. She would have kept her mouth shut tight. I don't think the perps gave a damn about who JC was talking to. They may have come upon him smiling, calm, not acting like crazed thugs, making him believe AT FIRST, he could keep the situation in control himself. Remember, several of us speculated that Johnny wasn't fearful, at least for the first few seconds.

[IMaDick]

Just a simple thought concerning welfare checks that are routinely done by LE, a welfare check requires the officer to see,talk, or otherwise confirm the welfare of the person whom the welfare check is being perfromed for.

LE dropped the ball here.

a drive by of the residence is not a welfare check.

a knock on the door with no answer is not a welfare check, it's easy to hear in the 911 calls that the operator did not take the mother seriously.

I would like to hear the responding officers radio traffic for this welfare check?

fifty one fifty

[EastCoastKat]

If they were professionals and they heard JC say....TIFF I'LL CALL YOU BACK...BELIEVE ME TIFF AND MR. Z WOULD HAVE BARELY MADE IT HOME, A QUICK CAR ACCIDENT OR DOUBLE OD'S WOULD HAVE BEEN IN ORDER, OR A COUPLE OF MORE PLASTIC BAGS...

My nephew didn't even see anybody, nada, he just showed up at the door of this friend moments after the guy was wacked, and two days later guess what?? So someone saw my nephew and just thought maybe he knew something, which he actually didn't, but these perps hear JC say "Tiff, I'll call you back" and oh that's okay??

According to Tiff that's what JC said, and she could hear him arguing, so I am sure the perp heard JC say Tiff I'll call you back...it stinks...especially for professionals, lol!! A month goes by and the professionals just assume Tiff and Mr. Z don't know anything and are going to keep quit, and Tiff comes on a public forum to answer questions, what??? JMO

[curious]

I'm sure TW was going over to buy drugs, and big tine dealers usually keep a close eye on who their "runners" sell too. On top of that, JC could have been TW's dealer, there's a ranking system when it come to drug dealing and the ones t the top only have a select few they deal with. Therefore, I don't think they would be concerned at all if he was on the phone...assuming it was someone he was selling to, would know the reprecutions if they snitched. If you go back to when TW was anawering questions on the thread, she made it clear JC dealt with a lot of people that was kept on the down-low, again under the assumption there's a ranking system when it comes to the diatribution/selling of drugs.

[/quote]

In your theory you are thinking that the perps assumed he was on the phone with someone wanting to buy drugs? That's an awfully big chance & assumption to make. Too risky IMO My point was.... he could have been on the phone with his granny for all they knew unless it was set up for him to be on the phone at a certain time with a certain "safe" person. OR he wasn't on the phone at all at the moment he was confronted.

[\quote]

I think he was on the phone to TW cause he was going to sell her dope, and what she stated in this forum is what was heard..."hey bro, what are you doing here", "hey Tiff let me call you back". No red sirens going off until time passed and JC never, IMO, delivered the drugs...not picking her up to hang out, explaining why she did have access to a car, but she didn't need it cause he was making a house call. Obviously she's not going to call LE right off, afterall she's in the "business" as well and LE is the last one you think about calling when drugs are involved. So she drove over there after some time passed to see what was going on, and I think she probably did see the house in disarray leading her to call the friend....and you know the rest from my previous post.

[EastCoastKat]

These are not professionals but they are in Tiff group of sicko thugs and yes there is a hierarchy, but I believe Tiff is well aware of who was there that night!!

[curious]

I'm sure TW was going over to buy drugs, and big tine dealers usually keep a close eye on who their "runners" sell too. On top of that, JC could have been TW's dealer, there's a ranking system when it come to drug dealing and the ones t the top only have a select few they deal with. Therefore, I don't think they would be concerned at all if he was on the phone...assuming it was someone he was selling to, would know the reprecutions if they snitched. If you go back to when TW was anawering questions on the thread, she made it clear JC dealt with a lot of people that was kept on the down-low, again under the assumption there's a ranking system when it comes to the diatribution/selling of drugs.

Sorry forgot to add, I've changed my theory about picking her up...I think he was going to deliver the drugs
In your theory you are thinking that the perps assumed he was on the phone with someone wanting to buy drugs? That's an awfully big chance & assumption to make. Too risky IMO My point was.... he could have been on the phone with his granny for all they knew unless it was set up for him to be on the phone at a certain time with a certain "safe" person. OR he wasn't on the phone at all at the moment he was confronted.

[\quote]

I think he was on the phone to TW cause he was going to sell her dope, and what she stated in this forum is what was heard..."hey bro, what are you doing here", "hey Tiff let me call you back". No red sirens going off until time passed and JC never, IMO, delivered the drugs...not picking her up to hang out, explaining why she did have access to a car, but she didn't need it cause he was making a house call. Obviously she's not going to call LE right off, afterall she's in the "business" as well and LE is the last one you think about calling when drugs are involved. So she drove over there after some time passed to see what was going on, and I think she probably did see the house in disarray leading her to call the friend....and you know the rest from my previous post.



[/quote]

[curious]

I hate quoting from my iPhone...see above, totally screwed up but I was trying to add that I've changed my theory about JC picking TW up, rather I think he was delivering drugs to her.

[Freshbait78]

[\quote]

I think he was on the phone to TW cause he was going to sell her dope, and what she stated in this forum is what was heard..."hey bro, what are you doing here", "hey Tiff let me call you back". No red sirens going off until time passed and JC never, IMO, delivered the drugs...not picking her up to hang out, explaining why she did have access to a car, but she didn't need it cause he was making a house call. Obviously she's not going to call LE right off, afterall she's in the "business" as well and LE is the last one you think about calling when drugs are involved. So she drove over there after some time passed to see what was going on, and I think she probably did see the house in disarray leading her to call the friend....and you know the rest from my previous post.



[/quote]

I was asking about why these perps who some think are professional would assume he was on the phone with someone trying to make a drug deal who they felt confident wouldn't call the police. I've heard every excuse known to man about why Tiffany didn't summon help for 2 hours LOL I'm asking about the people who actually committed the murders.

[blueyes]

Wow. Still processing the latest info...like always I'm with ShitStorm...sounds like hardened criminals to me...killed before and I never thought about how they "locked up" before they left...gangsta kid wanna-bes wouldn't have thought to do that...

I think the mistake you all keept making is that these are "gangsta kid wanna-bes." A wanna-be talks tough but doesn't act on it. These kids act on their stupidity, know no better, therefore are REAL gangstas! I can't stand people calling them wanna-bes because I am from the area and wouldn't dare call them that to their face because they feel as though they have something to prove and would smack you right then for saying such things. Not to mention get their homies all riled up trying to prove how real they are.

I agree. Those little ones are like baby rattlesnakes. More likely to strike than the older and more seasoned ones.

They have less to lose and more to prove.

Sorry I used to live right there ( all I could afford while putting myself through school) and they are Wannabe's they love the attention and usually their crimes are robbing ( this type of crowd) I do not know these people but know lots just like them and they want to be like the harder crowd from Toledo! I lived there at one time too! This is copycat kids trying to be accepted by the true ganstas in Toledo n I have no problem saying it to any of their faces...... and I am far from a ghetto thugs. I live in perrysburg n associate myself with professional people but due to hard times I had to reside in those neighborhoods n watched it first hand.

[Jane]

I think the perps were in the house 30 minutes or less. I think they were long gone, by the time Tiffany got there. I think the lights Tiffany saw, were the same lights LE saw, when they got there.

[curious]

[\quote]

I think he was on the phone to TW cause he was going to sell her dope, and what she stated in this forum is what was heard..."hey bro, what are you doing here", "hey Tiff let me call you back". No red sirens going off until time passed and JC never, IMO, delivered the drugs...not picking her up to hang out, explaining why she did have access to a car, but she didn't need it cause he was making a house call. Obviously she's not going to call LE right off, afterall she's in the "business" as well and LE is the last one you think about calling when drugs are involved. So she drove over there after some time passed to see what was going on, and I think she probably did see the house in disarray leading her to call the friend....and you know the rest from my previous post.

I was asking about why these perps who some think are professional would assume he was on the phone with someone trying to make a drug deal who they felt confident wouldn't call the police. I've heard every excuse known to man about why Tiffany didn't summon help for 2 hours LOL I'm asking about the people who actually committed the murders.

[/quote]

Probably by looking simply looking at his phone, and at this point they're in there regardless and I don't think they would run out because he was on the phone. They had a job to do, and they did it.

[Freshbait78]

I think the perps were in the house 30 minutes or less. I think they were long gone, by the time Tiffany got there. I think the lights Tiffany saw, were the same lights LE saw, when they got there.

I'll just repost my main point: As I said, that's a really risky chance for someone to take if they don't know who's on the phone & heard the confrontation & a big assumption that that person wouldn't come over or summon authorities. IMO

[curious]

These are not professionals but they are in Tiff group of sicko thugs and yes there is a hierarchy, but I believe Tiff is well aware of who was there that night!!

Quite possible, but unfortunately we may never know cause I highly doubt TW, or anyone for that matter would snitch them out...knowing what they're capable of.

[Jane]

I hate quoting from my iPhone...see above, totally screwed up but I was trying to add that I've changed my theory about JC picking TW up, rather I think he was delivering drugs to her.

I figured it out, LOL & I agree with you. I've always thought JC & LS were heading to Tiffany's, & not to pick her up. There were going to make a delivery. That even makes more sense, as to why Tiffany didn't call LE immediately. jmo

eta.. this scenario also makes sense as to why Tiffany would go over to the house. She was looking to score that night.

[curious]

I think the perps were in the house 30 minutes or less. I think they were long gone, by the time Tiffany got there. I think the lights Tiffany saw, were the same lights LE saw, when they got there.

I'll just repost my main point: As I said, that's a really risky chance for someone to take if they don't know who's on the phone & heard the confrontation & a big assumption that that person wouldn't come over or summon authorities. IMO

Would you come forward knowing the possible reprecutions?

[Jane]

I'll just repost my main point: As I said, that's a really risky chance for someone to take if they don't know who's on the phone & heard the confrontation & a big assumption that that person wouldn't come over or summon authorities. IMO

I don't think the perps gave a shit about JC being on the phone. They weren't going to be there that long. I also think the perps might have been talking in low voices, maybe something along the lines of "get off the phone, we want to talk to you" ... Tiffany claims she couldn't hear what the man was saying.

[Freshbait78]

I think the perps were in the house 30 minutes or less. I think they were long gone, by the time Tiffany got there. I think the lights Tiffany saw, were the same lights LE saw, when they got there.

I'll just repost my main point: As I said, that's a really risky chance for someone to take if they don't know who's on the phone & heard the confrontation & a big assumption that that person wouldn't come over or summon authorities. IMO

Would you come forward knowing the possible reprecutions?

Absolutely!!! I was taught to stand up for what is right. This is off topic but last summer I met a friend at a bar in Maumee for drinks after work & a large group of people from the southend showed up there & I knew that there would be trouble. Without fail, when the group was getting ready to leave a fight broke out between some girls which was taken outside at which point someone started shooting a gun. I told the bartender to call the police & they just stood there looking stupid so when they didn't act I DID & everyone was yelling NO at me LOL The cops came but everyone had already taken off, the cops found 20 shell casings in the parking lot. Those assholes fired off atleast 20 rounds into a group of people!!!! I was banned from the bar by the bouncer for calling the police LOL

Moral of the story, I don't like living amongst animals, gutter trash & murderers. There should be more people who "snitch" then maybe people would start thinking twice about what they do. As it is now there are too many people who live in fear of the thugs & I won't be one. There's a saying that goes something like, "If you don't stand for something, you stand for nothing"

[rotten_cotton]

holy shit freshbait, which bar was that?