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(11-09-2011, 01:44 PM)Cheyne Wrote: My Opinion:
Joe Pa is morally culpable in this scandal, and shares the blame with everyone else who knew what Sandusky was doing, and did nothing directly to stop it. Legally he is off the hook as he did do the minimum required by law and U policy.
Very well stated, Cheyne! I'm in total agreement with you. He's known about this for years, and now the chickens are coming home to roost.
How's that legacy, Joe Pa? Not man enough to stand up and do the right thing... Turn your friend in to the police.
If one of these boys would've happened to be his son? or a nephew?
I'm guessing he would've wanted to kill Sandusky.
MikeyA-
I agree with virtually all of your takes out here, but you don't seem too upset at Joe or the pedophile in this case, instead aiming your sights on a janitor and a GA, who would definitely fear for their jobs.
Why the wimpy stance on this one?
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(11-09-2011, 02:53 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: MikeyA-
I agree with virtually all of your takes out here, but you don't seem too upset at Joe or the pedophile in this case, instead aiming your sights on a janitor and a GA, who would definitely fear for their jobs.
Why the wimpy stance on this one?
Joe did what he was required to. He reported it to people who could investigate. He didn't know the details of the assault and was already in a precarious position because of previous asking Sandusky to resign.
Joe's job is as an ambassador for the school. That means his conduct is heavily regulated. Look at Bob Knight who finally lost his job for essentially nothing.
Had Joe deviated from protocol and reported second hand information to which the details were sketchy I have pointed out he opens himself and the University to a lawsuit if it's eventually determined unfounded.
As I pointed out in the case I was in I too had my hands tied or risk opening my employer and myself to lawsuit risk. Having been there and felt there was wrong doing you act appropriately but it pains you.
Now the janitor and GA, they had FIRST HAND knowledge. Penn State is a State College meaning their jobs are protected under "whistleblower" protection meaning if they thought they lost their job for blowing the whistle the onus is on the university to prove otherwise, a much different legal standing. My problem isn't so much with them not reporting it I have a problem with them NOT STOPPING IT! Which is waaaaaaay worse than even Joe's culpability if you assign any to him.
"I’m not going to cry over it. I already did that on the way home." - Michael Scott
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(11-09-2011, 05:15 PM)MikeyA Wrote: Now the janitor and GA, they had FIRST HAND knowledge. Penn State is a State College meaning their jobs are protected under "whistleblower" protection meaning if they thought they lost their job for blowing the whistle the onus is on the university to prove otherwise, a much different legal standing. My problem isn't so much with them not reporting it I have a problem with them NOT STOPPING IT! Which is waaaaaaay worse than even Joe's culpability if you assign any to him.
Who's to say that their presence in those two instances DIDN'T stop a particular crime?? Do you really think that Sandusky is just going to continue his sexual assault with someone watching him?
I believe the GA has said he informed Paterno that his asst coach was RAPING a child. Paterno then washes his hands of said incident by 'firing' (or not rehiring) Sandusky, but, at the same time, keeps the reputation of Penn State intact by not bringing this deviousness to public light.
Not to mention, he leaves this sick, evil predator 'out there' (of course, will FULL ACCESS to Penn State's facilities) to continue his sick acts.
Well, shame on you, Joe Pa.
As Mama says in 'Waterboy'... 'The chickens are coming home to roost, Bobby'. In this case, 'Joe Pa'.
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(11-09-2011, 05:46 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: I believe the GA has said he informed Paterno that his asst coach was RAPING a child. Paterno then washes his hands of said incident by 'firing' (or not rehiring) Sandusky, but, at the same time, keeps the reputation of Penn State intact by not bringing this deviousness to public light.
Not to mention, he leaves this sick, evil predator 'out there' (of course, will FULL ACCESS to Penn State's facilities) to continue his sick acts.
First, Joe didn't know the details of the assault and has testified so.
Secondly, Sandusky was asked to resign by JoePa, who didn't have the power to fire him, when he was originally brought under investigation. The incident with the GA came 2 years after Sandusky had resigned. Which is why Joe could be concerned with a defamation/harassment suit.
Thirdly, Sandusky was granted Professor Emeritus status by the University, not by JoePa. The facilities are not run by the Head Football Coach, they are run by the Athletic Dept and alas Joe couldn't ban Sandusky from them.
Again the blame needs to be laid onto those who allowed Sandusky free reign, covered up his deeds, and allowed the attacks to take place. Only the third one could you say Joe has any culpability but his knowledge was after the fact, second hand, and without details. Like I've said already now, Joe is waaay down the list in terms of blame, and Joe did what he was obligated and what was appropriate.
"I’m not going to cry over it. I already did that on the way home." - Michael Scott
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(11-09-2011, 05:46 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: Who's to say that their presence in those two instances DIDN'T stop a particular crime?? Do you really think that Sandusky is just going to continue his sexual assault with someone watching him?
Oh the rape is over now? Well I guess tomorrow I'll just mosey on down to my coaches house and tell him so it's his problem then.
No. They should have called the police IMMEDIATELY! Joe shouldn't have even factored into the equation.
"I’m not going to cry over it. I already did that on the way home." - Michael Scott
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Everyone involved was too worried about covering their own ass to give any consideration to the child/children...that's how I view this entire disgusting story.
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(11-09-2011, 05:59 PM)MikeyA Wrote: (11-09-2011, 05:46 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: Who's to say that their presence in those two instances DIDN'T stop a particular crime?? Do you really think that Sandusky is just going to continue his sexual assault with someone watching him?
Oh the rape is over now? Well I guess tomorrow I'll just mosey on down to my coaches house and tell him so it's his problem then.
No. They should have called the police IMMEDIATELY! Joe shouldn't have even factored into the equation.
Well, if in fact the rape was over, and it was the next day, and they DID mosey on down to JoePa's office, the onus was now put on him to do something. We're talking about a janitor and a GA trying to take on a powerful coach in JoePa's distinguished program.
You really want to blame the GA and janitor, and give JoePa a free pass?
You're a stand up guy, MikeyA, I believe.
You can take the moral high ground for JoePa, and are willing to sacrifice the other two? Really?
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(11-09-2011, 06:10 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: You can take the moral high ground for JoePa, and are willing to sacrifice the other two? Really?
Well..yeah. He's indicated his position clearly throughout this thread. He believes the correct protocol was followed and that's the basis for his opinion.
I hope he'll correct me if I'm wrong on my understanding. 
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I don't give Paterno a pass. I coached my daughter's softball team for many years. My assistant coaches were my oldest son and the dad of another team member. If my son had come to me and said he had seen the other coach sexually assaulting a girl, I would have asked for specifics and asked why my son didn't try to intervene. My first moves would have been to contact the police and the girl's parents - and then would have let the league president know. I just can't imagine knowing a child was sexually abused and not doing anythng - the child doesn't get any help and the abuser is able to continue abusing.
IMO, the fact that Sandusky was abusing boys in areas where there could easily be other people around, shows that he was a predator who was out of control.
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(11-09-2011, 06:17 PM)Duchess Wrote: (11-09-2011, 06:10 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: You can take the moral high ground for JoePa, and are willing to sacrifice the other two? Really?
Well..yeah. He's indicated his position clearly throughout this thread. He believes the correct protocol was followed and that's the basis for his opinion.
I hope he'll correct me if I'm wrong on my understanding.
Geez, Duch, I'm having an intelligent argument with Mikey on this one, and don't need you jumping in to opine for him.
I'm trying to dig a little deeper and see WHY he's so willing (allegedly  ) to look the other way for Paterno, when it would appear to most people that JoePa did nothing/as little as possible.
Joe Pa might want to study this:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/integrity
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Holy Moly! See this ----->  Ima slap you with it.
I'm not defending anyone, I'm entertaining myself.
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(11-09-2011, 07:09 PM)Duchess Wrote:
Ima slap you with it.
Is that the same as 'I'm gonna slap it on you?'
I read your take on this earlier. You and I are in total agreement. Everyone at Penn State hoped this would simply disappear. It did for more than 10 years.
We're talking about looking the other way while children as young as EIGHT YEARS OLD, are being molested.
Shame, shame, shame.
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Article on the legal quagmire of this situation:
Did Joe Paterno break the law?
Story Highlights
Paterno hasn't been charged, but he may have violated law by not going to police
Paterno's statements to grand jury will come under scrutiny as case goes to trial
Even if Paterno isn't criminally charged, he could be found negligent in civil trial Joe Paterno could still be charged with perjury if authorities find he wasn't truthful in his grand jury testimony.
While Pennsylvania Attorney General Linda Kelly says that her office won't file charges against Joe Paterno for not reporting the alleged child sexual abuse by former Penn State defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, the 84-year-old coach could eventually face criminal charges for perjury, obstruction of justice and violating the state's Child Protective Services Law. Paterno could also become a defendant in civil lawsuits filed by Sandusky's alleged victims. Those lawsuits could allege that Paterno negligently failed to prevent a third party with whom he had a supervisory relationship (Sandusky) from committing abuse.
Read more.
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The hammer came down.
Trustees: Penn State president removed, Paterno out immediately
By the CNN Wire Staff
updated 10:42 PM EST, Wed November 9, 2011
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
Trustees dismiss Spanier, remove Paterno as head coach immediately
Man tells Anderson Cooper of uncomfortable moments with Sandusky
U.S. Department of Education investigating Penn State
"With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more," Paterno says
(CNN) -- Head football coach Joe Paterno and the university president have lost their jobs, effective immediately, over a child sex abuse scandal at Penn State, university trustees announced Wednesday night.
John P. Surma, vice chairman of trustees, said that President Graham Spanier was being replaced and Paterno, the longtime head football coach, would not finish the remainder of the season.
Tom Bradley will be Penn State head coach in Joe Paterno's absence. Rod Erickson, executive vice president and provost of the school, will be interim president, school officials said.
Spanier has been president of the school since 1995.
Full story.
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If the buck is going to be passed along (from the graduate student to Paterno and beyond), I want to know who Paterno supposedly passed the information along to and what's happening to them.
ETA: Oh wait, maybe it was Spanier.
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(11-10-2011, 12:43 AM)username Wrote: If the buck is going to be passed along (from the graduate student to Paterno and beyond), I want to know who Paterno supposedly passed the information along to and what's happening to them.
ETA: Oh wait, maybe it was Spanier. Paterno told Tim Curley. Tim Curley has been charged with failure to report. He stepped down as Athletic Director after meeting with the Board earlier in the week.
Link.
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Big colleges are ran like a mafia, just like this one was. When and if shit happens, whatever the situation may be, people keep shit hush hush for many reasons. To protect their jobs, school prestige, other peoples jobs, the list goes on. Now Joe pa saying he was going to retire was a fucking cop out. Christ sakes he is 90, he might die by the end of the season. But he was going to anyways. Bottom line I and a bunch of people lost respect for Joe PA . He allowed for other kids to get raped/molested. As a parent/father like he is, he should of made sure this situation was real, and definitely made sure it was properly handled. But the janitor should of also reported this to police, not keep it "in house" like it was handled. The janitor needs to be put in jail also.
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(11-09-2011, 02:49 PM)Kip Wrote: Hmmm...Ray Gricar (the prosecutor who disappeared under mysterious circumstances) was the prosecutor who decided to not prosecute Sandusky.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.s...ray_g.html
It may be a coincidence. Maybe someone affiliated with this Penn State case wanted to get rid of Gricar. Maybe Gricar was paid a lot of cash to keep quiet and took off. Maybe Gricar was bribed and killed himself out of guilt.
IIRC, just before Gricar disappeared, he was seen walking/talking in a shopping area with a woman. Witnesses said they seemed to not be friends or lovers. Could have been a random person that he was just exchaging pleasantries with - though this person has never come forward. Maybe someone associated with Penn State? I thought the same type of thing when I saw Gricar's name. I followed that case in 2005, his girl friend and family were adamant he wouldn't just walk away from his car and disappear. Interesting article thanks.
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Joe P would have been around 71, way past retirement age at the time of the incident reported by the GA.
Wouldn't a man of morals and principals just retire at this point if he really felt he had done enough..
Say FU penn state! Stand up for these children and out the bastard or I'm gone. I wonder if the coach they've kept on until he's 82 fucking yrs old (because he IS their football franchise) had done this, would they have handled it correctly and called not just University Security but local LE too?
There are always too many people that deny deny deny that they are morally required to keep our children safe from predators. Wait until it happens in your family and some of you might feel different about the people holding the power in this instance.
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many photos at link.
A riot involving thousands of Penn State football fans erupted last night at the announcement their long-term head coach Joe Paterno would be sacked with 'immediate effect' for his role in the sex scandal which has rocked the university.
The college's Board of Trustees also forced the resignation of president Graham Spanier.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...z1dJHMpHBk
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