walking while black - Trayvon Martin

[Ma Huang Sor]

Jim:
LC, doesn't 2^nd degree seem a big stretch here?




i have been saying for weeks here now that it should/may get reduced to manslaughter. Corey overcharged. and you are hearing this from a pro-pros long-time florida sheriff deputy.
technically he could get 20 to life for 2^nd degree. but i don't think the elements are there to convict on that.
would Z take a plea? not if O'Mara thinks they have a very good shot at trial. remains to be seen.

20 to 30 for manslaughter under that weird law because he used a gun, que no?

[Jimbone]

Those few minutes are a black hole. Seemingly anything could have happened and the only person alive left to tell their story is Z.

No one really knows what happened in those critical few moments, and do you really want to send a man to life in prison on supposition instead of hard evidence? I think this could well be the defense closing argument. Bolster it up with eye witnesses to M beating on Z, physical evidence of injury to Z, and whatever else will speak to a self defense argument.

Imagine if this scenario had gone down the same way, but let's assume for a second that Z didn't have a gun... and however the altercation began M had killed him by repeatedly striking Z's head on the ground. Does anyone think for a second that Z's prior communication with 9-1-1 would be a defense for M having killed Z because he felt threatened and was being followed? You're not allowed to kill someone for that... and you're probably not allowed to beat the crap out of them either.

A good defense attorney is going to probably make that case as well... that the events leading up to the point that are documented don't matter. Z was in fear of his life during the actual physical altercation with M, and discharged his firearm.

This case is such a mess!

[Lady Cop]

Police took this crime scene photo on the evening Travon Martin was shot and killed by George Zimmerman.



Police photograph taken within hours



the Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm handgun



Martin's cell phone

[Lady Cop]

here is rather eerie surveillance video from the 7-11 with Martin right before his encounter with Z.

http://cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2....7-11.html

[Disciple]

I've posted many times in this thread, and the more information that comes out, it looks as though Z is most likely telling the truth.

He told the dispatcher there was a suspicious suspect in the community. He was told not to engage nor pursue, but, with all the crime there, he decided to follow, but, and I'm guessing, at a reasonable distance.

Trayvon tells his girlfriend there's somebody following him. I think T eluded him in there somewhere (either running and circling back or hiding behind something).

As Z heads back to his truck, he's jumped from behind. Staggering and falling, T jumps on top of him and begins to pummel him. Z, knowing he's getting beat to a pulp, reaches for his weapon and probably fires from 6 to 12 inches away.

If this is in fact the scenario, T deserved what he got. He assaulted someone, and that someone happened to be armed. Bad break for him.

No one has ever confirmed that he assaulted a bus driver in the days leading to the incident in Sanford, and maybe he didn't. But, if he did, I would not doubt the above scenario AT ALL.

Where did THIS fantasy come from?

MS, maybe you should share what YOU'RE smoking.

I can't post it because I'm on my cell, but the AP/NYT reports new documents released. I'm sure someone (LC) will get around to posting the article before I get back to my computer.

Most is equivocal - everyone will find something to support his/her argument.

Of particular interest to me was the report of the lead investigator, who recommended charging Zimmerman with manslaughter. He wrote that the incident WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED (my emphasis) if Zimmerman had stayed in his vehicle as instructed and "had identified himself as a member of the Neighborhood Watch instead of confronting Martin."

[username]

Z was in fear of his life during the actual physical altercation with M, and discharged his firearm.

This case is such a mess!

I agree that it's a mess. With what little is known, I could argue that T was in fear of his life and standing his ground. Those few minutes are key. Taking the devil's advocate view, for all we know, Z brandished (or threatened that he had) his weapon and then Trayvon jumped him.

Can you prove that wrong?

I don't think so. We're all speculating but I do tend to blame Zimmerman for following Trayvon in the first place. I confess it's a bias. I don't think Zimmerman should have followed (actually chased) Trayvon in the first place ergo, I tend to hold him accountable for everything that happened thereafter.

[Disciple]

That's exactly what she's saying.

How do you know? We don't chat. I don't even know who the fuck you are.

Please explain why you think certain groups are profiled. It may be hard to gloss over the crime rate, AIDS rate, unwed birth rate, graduation rate, average intelligence, and per capita poverty, but I'm interested to hear your take on it.

You don't have to know who I am. I know you. I know you from the racist and narcissistic shit you spew.

We aren't talking about profiling in a vacuum. We are discussing the subject as applied in this particular case: where an unarmed 17 year old black kid who had every right to be where he was (and, BTW to defend HIMSELF) was shot and killed by someone who took it upon himself to act in the place of law enforcement, contrary to his training and instructions.

Google "proximate cause". Go and learn what this means.

Keep posting your racist shit about blacks.

Two generations ago the same things were said about the Italians.

Three generations ago, the Irish.

Those who do not know history are condemned to relive it.

[username]

This does NOT look like someone who recently had his nose broken...

I can't reconcile that one pic of his nose sideways and swollen with this one...

[img][/img]


He must have hella healing skills to go from that one photo to this.

[username]

quote='Lady Cop' pid='245913' dateline='1337296458']

[/quote]

Does this really look like the same person?

[Lady Cop]

i think it looks like the same person sitting in a vehicle minutes after shooting. photo taken with crap phone.(?) it looks swollen to me, at first i thought it was a sloppy bandage. why does his nose look more normal a few hours later? ice? i don't know. better camera too. perhaps an explanation will come.




also, Disciple, i DID post link to full document & photo dumps. TWICE. i can't copy & paste PDFs.

everyone
all discovery files are here--->


http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfn...very_.html


7-11



BODY UNDER TARP

[LytoMe]

HOLY HELL, Martin is a LOT BIGGER then his little football pictures!! I watched a video this morning about all the evidence. Being paranoid is a side effect of THC, I am just saying….!!!
Also in the evidence that was reported when Martin’s father heard the cries on the 911 tape, he broke down and stated it WAS NOT his son. After all the MEDIA WHORING the mother said it was her son.
NOW we are seeing the real evidence, and what possibly is the truth behind all this BS and racial SHIT.
Curious how the parents are taking this, is the autopsy wrong now too?

[LytoMe]

That video is an eerie, why is he pacing in the 7/11? See him go to walk out, then turns around and walks back...pick something off the floor...go towards the back again and then...the video cuts off...WHY? Why are they not showing the entire video of him walking out the door? Or is this JUST THIS one?
Would love to know what the clerk and Martin were discussing...?

[Jimbone]

I agree that it's a mess. With what little is known, I could argue that T was in fear of his life and standing his ground. Those few minutes are key. Taking the devil's advocate view, for all we know, Z brandished (or threatened that he had) his weapon and then Trayvon jumped him.

Can you prove that wrong?

I don't think so. We're all speculating but I do tend to blame Zimmerman for following Trayvon in the first place. I confess it's a bias. I don't think Zimmerman should have followed (actually chased) Trayvon in the first place ergo, I tend to hold him accountable for everything that happened thereafter.

Nope, I can't prove that wrong. It's just as plausible as any other theory, which is what will really help the defense here... they only need reasonable doubt, which so far appears to be abundant.

It looks more and more to me that this charge was brought out of politics, and not blind justice. Seeing what's in the document dump, I really hope the prosecution has something else up their sleeve... they have a tremendously long road to get a conviction here.

Unless they can stack the jury with Black Panthers.

[Adub]

Concerning the video, Trayvon was sure digging around in his pockets for money. As if he maybe thought he had more? Started to leave and decided to go look on the floor where he had been? Hell, the clerk might have even spotted it and called him back.

[LytoMe]

Concerning the video, Trayvon was sure digging around in his pockets for money. As if he maybe thought he had more? Started to leave and decided to go look on the floor where he had been? Hell, the clerk might have even spotted it and called him back.

He looks more confused then "oops money fell out of my pocket"...IDK even before the mention of THC in his system (which stays in your blood up to 14 days), he looks like he isnt sure what he is doing.... IMO

[Jimbone]

This appears to be the image Ofc. Wagner took with his iPhone immediately following the incident with Z in custody.

That swelling seems about right... noses get gigantic and then subside fairly quickly. Check out some pictures of boxers from the ring and compare them to the post fight press conferences an hour or two later.

[ramseycat]

If Trayvon was so stoned he didn't know what he was doing, I highly doubt he beat the shit out of George.

[Lady Cop]

the clerk will be deposed and on the witness list. looooooong way to go.

[Cynical Ninja]

If Trayvon was so stoned he didn't know what he was doing, I highly doubt he beat the shit out of George.

People do not pick fights if they are stoned. Doesn't happen.

[Adub]

People do not pick fights if they are stoned. Doesn't happen.

I agree, but I do wonder about people who take Librax for irritable bowel syndrome and Tamazepam for insomnia.