perpetrator families: opinions?

[Donovan]

Figured this would be the best place to put this. I recently came into a unique situation of being indirectly involved with two distinct crime incidents as a peripheral observer: in one case as a link to the family and friends of victims, in the other as a link to the family/friends of the perpetrator of a terrible crime. One thing struck me: the reactions, emotions, and anguish is almost identical. Victims' families and families of the perp go through parallel periods of shock, surprise, disbelief, ostracism, accusation, and upheaval in their lives. It's as if they are tied to the common experience and their paths are the same no matter which side of the crime they fall on.

One key difference is the amount of support from the public/strangers. For the victim there is plenty, although that can be a mistaken assumption because no one REALLY wants to be around someone who has suffered so badly. People disappear quickly from their lives. But for the families of the criminal there is little or no support; it's as if they're guilty by extension. There are no support groups for the families of the jackass who shoots up campus or the serial rapist disguised as a sunday school teacher. They didn't do those things, yet they pay along with the criminal.

Thoughts?

[Sterling]

Thoughts? Sure. Start a catering company exclusively to provide events for the alleged criminal's family. I'm sure you'll thrive, sport. Maybe some balloons with clever sayings referring to fruit and distance from the tree. Bleeding heart douchebag.

[Teacher]

If the criminal came from a good Christian family who were not involved in any types of crimes, then yes, my heart goes out to that family. Therefore, I guess I'm a bleeding heart. In fact, I know I am.

[Donovan]

Thoughts? Sure. Start a catering company exclusively to provide events for the alleged criminal's family. I'm sure you'll thrive, sport. Maybe some balloons with clever sayings referring to fruit and distance from the tree. Bleeding heart douchebag.

Elaborate, please. How is a family member held responsible for the behavior of their relative?

You may be interested to know this blame also goes on within the families of victims, especially in cases that don't result in death. Usually by more shortsighted members of the family, and almost always with a level of hostility that far and away goes beyond the person's role in the crime. So why is that? Explain.

[Donovan]

If the criminal came from a good Christian family who were not involved in any types of crimes, then yes, my heart goes out to that family. Therefore, I guess I'm a bleeding heart. In fact, I know I am.

Are Christians the only good families? I'm not sure this is any more valid a viewpoint than the "kill em all" stuff Sterling was hinting at. If I may ask, what are your qualifications for good Christian family?

[Kip]

I do think that in many cases, the families of the perpetrators are often victims themselves - of course, not to the extent of the primary victim.

Take the wife of the BTK killer...she knew her husband as a loving husband, a good father, a church deacon, etc. And then to discover that the reality she knew was all a sham ... I don't know how she could ever trust anyone again.

Years ago here, a young prostitute was found dead by the side of a road. It turned out a bank vice president had picked up this young woman and taken her back to the family home (while his wife was away with the kids at a scouting event), and had drowned the woman. There's the shame and embarrassment, the betrayal, the trust issues mentioned above. And the children of this man...how hard it must be as 10 and 12 year old children to cope with the knowledge that your father murdered someone.

I knew a woman who hired a hit man to kill her husband (the hit man was successful). This woman was more than an acquaintance but less than a friend to me. Finding out she had done that hit me hard for a couple of years. How could I not have seen the evil in this woman? It made me question my judgement about people and made me suspicious of people's intentions.

[Teacher]

If the criminal came from a good Christian family who were not involved in any types of crimes, then yes, my heart goes out to that family. Therefore, I guess I'm a bleeding heart. In fact, I know I am.

Are Christians the only good families? I'm not sure this is any more valid a viewpoint than the "kill em all" stuff Sterling was hinting at. If I may ask, what are your qualifications for good Christian family?

I don't know if Christians are the only good families since in my sheltered world, I only know families that are like mine. Raising your children to know right from wrong; being a vital part of every aspect of their lives that you can possibly be; loving them unconditionally; of course, teaching them that there is a loving God; setting good examples for them to follow; having them grow up knowing that you have the highest expectations of them no matter how old they become, etc.

Now before you say it, I do know that what I just said does not apply to everyone who does this. But in my heart this is what I believe. I know there are many non-believers on this site, and I feel badly about that. Leaving God out of the equation is ruining our youth, our communities, our world (imo). No, I am not a religious fanatic - just a believer who raised her children to have the same values and beliefs that I do. So far I have been truly blessed with the results.

[Sterling]

Elaborate, please. How is a family member held responsible for the behavior of their relative?

How? Ignorance, culture, truth. You really have no clue? Seriously? With all of the wonderful psycho-babble surrounding abuse in the household, child development, learned behavior and mitgating circumstances, you claim ignorance to this defense strategy? How about the multi-cultural and religious phenomenon of family honor and shame? This shit is all new to you?

And the fact people can be unforgiving assholes? What rock do you live under?

[Donovan]

Elaborate, please. How is a family member held responsible for the behavior of their relative?

How? Ignorance, culture, truth. You really have no clue? Seriously? With all of the wonderful psycho-babble surrounding abuse in the household, child development, learned behavior and mitgating circumstances, you claim ignorance to this defense strategy? How about the multi-cultural and religious phenomenon of family honor and shame? This shit is all new to you?

And the fact people can be unforgiving assholes? What rock do you live under?

I'm finding it difficult to follow your train of thought long enough to find a coherent thread, a point, or a salient statement other than disjointed and loosely connected ranting. I'm left with the impression you're either a crackpot or a loon. Focus and get back to me, I can't decipher enough of this to make a response.

[Cracker]

Focus and get back to me, I can't decipher enough of this to make a response.

You always come off sounding like a douche. I want to explain something to you: If people don't find you sexually attractive, the douche act isn't effective.

It's like ramsey pouting. Who gives a shit?

I understood the post. I almost explained it to you, but then decided it was too much of an investment.

Families always want credit when a family member does well, but they are all suddenly without blame if a family member is a complete nutfuck. In either situation, nothing changed. The family is the single greatest influence you will have in your life. If you are fucked up, it is their job to spot it and fix it. If they are so fucking ignorant they didn't see it coming, that is a problem. Doesn't relieve the responsibility of the family unit.

[Maggot]

The perps family can only say "But he was such a nice kid, he always loved cleaning the knives"

[HairOfTheDog]

I think it depends on the family relations, in part.

If the husband or wife of a perpetrator is a decent person and it's proven they had no idea about their spouse's crime, they don't appear to be as ostracized and will likely be supported by family and friends, if not the general public. If it's a high profile crime, hell, they can even write a book and make some money after just a little time passes. Or, go on "Who the Bleep Did I Marry?". I also don't think children or siblings of perpetrators are generally ostracized altogether if they had no part or knowledge in the crimes, unless the crime was gang-related and/or the victim was known by the perpretrator and his/her family .

Parents have it the hardest. In general, I agree with much of what has been posted by others. We see a lot of crime committed by perpetrators who were raised by negligent, apathetic, or ciminal parents. Not all, but a lot. Human nature to first look at who raised someone that turned out so fucked up. It may not always be right, but it's natural. If the parents are good people and the criminal was just a bad seed without warning signs, tough break, but how often does that really happen? Usually there is denial or enabling rather than no warning signs, in my opinion. I'm sure there are exceptions too. But, parents bear some extended responsibility for what their children do, even as adults, in the eyes of society. They get credit when their children do good and blame when they do bad. I think there are support groups for families of perpetrators, arranged by the prison systems, not advertised.

I'm not sure that there is a problem that needs fixing here, in terms of greater support for perpetrator's families. If the family members show genuine remorse for what was done and don't try to excuse the criminal or profit from the crime, the ostracization is likely less pronounced and diminishes more quickly (or, they can move somewhere discreetly in the dead of night and start again). Just life. I feel much more for the victims' families, no matter what. I admit it.

[Adub]

I've known a few murderers, and their families. I feel bad for their families. Real bad. No matter what.

One was Robert Smith. He butchered his best friend's pregnant wife. He was raised by his grandmother. Very wealthy lady. This was back in the 80s. I knew him very well. The grandma was in total denial. She spent a bundle on his defense.

Another is Dustin Gran. My daughter dated his older brother for 4 years. They are like family. It's been tough seeing the toll that it took on the Gran family. Really tough. And it hasn't even gone to trial yet.

KFSN 1/16/2008 (KFSN) -- Two young people are in custody for the brutal killing of a Madera teenager.

Police made the arrests Tuesday night January 15^th. Officers took 19-year-old Dustin Gran and a 16-year-old girl into custody. They're suspected in the death of 18-year-old Krista-Rae Pike.

Police believe this murder was about the 16-year-old suspect getting revenge on her former boyfriend. The other suspect, Dustin Gran, has been booked into the Madera County Jail on homicide and conspiracy charges. He is being held on $1-million dollars bail for a crime that's shaken up the Madera community.

Police say jealousy over a teenage romance was the apparent motive for the bludgeoning death of an 18-year-old Madera teen. Two suspects are now in custody. Police say 19-year old Dustin Gran and his 16-year old girlfriend planned Krista-Rae Pike's murder.

The murdered girls family sued the Gran's for wrongful death. Never asked how that turned out. But my heart will always bleed for the Grans.

[Cracker]

But Adub, don't you think there is some basic lesson that is missing from his upbringing, like don't kill other people?

[Adub]

But Adub, don't you think there is some basic lesson that is missing from his upbringing, like don't kill other people?

I have no idea what the fuck Dustin was thinking. He was the favored son, for sure. Spoiled rotten. Mom and dad divorced. He lived with dad and stepmom. Played video games non-stop. Kind of a misfit socially. The year before he had brain surgery to remove a tumor. They are trying to say that his brain was messed up.

[Kip]

I think it depends on the family relations, in part.

If the husband or wife of a perpetrator is a decent person and it's proven they had no idea about their spouse's crime, they don't appear to be as ostracized and will likely be supported by family and friends, if not the general public....

Parents have it the hardest. In general, I agree with much of what has been posted by others. We see a lot of crime committed by perpetrators who were raised by negligent, apathetic, or ciminal parents. Not all, but a lot. ...

I'm not sure that there is a problem that needs fixing here, in terms of greater support for perpetrator's families....

I think people in general support the "innocent" family members of a perpetrator, but the family members still feel shame, wonder if they could have done anything differently, and hear the whispers behind their backs. And as for children of killers - other children can be cruel.

I don't think there's a problem that needs fixing - but I do think that family members of perps can be victims too in the sense that something bad out of their control has happened to them (as I said earlier, nowhere near the degree of the actual victim and family members).

[HairOfTheDog]

I agree with you Kip, and Adub too. I feel worse for the victims' families, but doesn't mean that some families of perpetrators aren't sympathetic as well. Case by case, depending on the famiies of the perps. Some feel no shame, no remorse for the victim - nothing. They just rationalize and sometimes blame the victim. Those enabling families get no sympathy from me. Innocent victims and their families always do.

Point taken about children being cruel to other children, Kip.

[pspence]

no one loves their kids more than i love mine...but i've always made them apologize if they screwed up. i would like to think if i was the mother of a perpetrator i'd be there in court with them because i'm their parent but i'd still want them to face the consequence of their behavior. I would like to think i'd face the fact they were guilty, deal with it and extend my remorse and sorrow to the victim's family. i can't stand to see people like scott peterson's mother defending her psycho son and be pisst at the victim's family for wrongly accusing my little angel when the evidence is overwhelming. makes me wanna puke.

[pspence]

i remember once when i was growing up, there was a newspaper article about some kid in our town who was murdered. my mother said under her breath that if she had to choose, she would rather be the mother of the victim than of the perpetrator ...

[Sterling]

Elaborate, please. How is a family member held responsible for the behavior of their relative?

How? Ignorance, culture, truth. How about the multi-cultural and religious phenomenon of family honor and shame?

And the fact people can be unforgiving assholes?

I'm finding it difficult to follow your train of thought long enough to find a coherent thread, a point, or a salient statement other than disjointed and loosely connected ranting. I'm left with the impression you're either a crackpot or a loon. Focus and get back to me, I can't decipher enough of this to make a response.

That is because you are ignorant. I answered your question and you, for some unknown reason, were unable to grasp simple concepts as to the "How" of responsibility. Are these sayings really unknown to you: "The sins of the father . . .", "Chip off the old block", "The company you keep", "If you lie down with dogs . . .", "The fruit doesn't fall far from the tree". These are contentions that human failings are contagious. Idiot.