Stand Your Ground

[Jimbone]

Hey, I heard you all were talking about me! Hi guys!!!

[Maggot]

[username]

He looks pathetic. Small dog with a gun.

[Midwest Spy]

Zimmerman didn't make every effort to retreat IMO. Quite the opposite.

Hey fella, he was jumped. Pretty hard to retreat when dude's on top of you pummeling your face.

I thought you were smarter than you're letting on.

[username]

Zimmerman didn't make every effort to retreat IMO. Quite the opposite.

Hey fella, he was jumped. Pretty hard to retreat when dude's on top of you pummeling your face.

I thought you were smarter than you're letting on.

How do you know he was jumped? That's a BIG assumption.

ETA: we know for a fact though that G was following T.

[Midwest Spy]

Zimmerman didn't make every effort to retreat IMO. Quite the opposite.

Hey fella, he was jumped. Pretty hard to retreat when dude's on top of you pummeling your face.

I thought you were smarter than you're letting on.

How do you know he was jumped? That's a BIG assumption.

ETA: we know for a fact though that G was following T.

What if it went this way:

Trayvon notices Z following him and decided to confront him face to face.

Maybe something like this:

T- Why you following me, man?

Z- Keeping an eye on your ass while you're in this neighborhood.

T- Takes quick swing at him and knocks him to the ground, and proceeds to get on top and continues to punch.

Z- Pulls gun, and kills him instantly with one shot.

Is that scenario any better for your client (T)?

[Duchess]

George is a runt. I think he carried a gun to level the playing field. He wanted to be a cop but was a bigass fail in that endeavor. He felt comfortable doing what he was doing because he had a gun. He was even less than a rent-a-cop and had no business confronting that kid like it was his business to do so. His actions led to that kid's death no matter how you look at it.

[HairOfTheDog]

Zimmerman didn't make every effort to retreat IMO. Quite the opposite.

Hey fella, he was jumped. Pretty hard to retreat when dude's on top of you pummeling your face.

I thought you were smarter than you're letting on.

How do you know he was jumped? That's a BIG assumption.

ETA: we know for a fact though that G was following T.

Yep, we know for a fact that Zimmerman followed/pursued Martin against 911 dispatcher instruction. Pretty hard to get "jumped" if you're the one in pursuit.

We also know for a fact that Zimmerman is a liar; thus the perjury for lying about his financial status - to a judge.

We also know that Martin was not in the act of any criminal activity when Zimmerman pursued him.

I don't know what happened after Zimmerman caught up to Martin that night and want to see/hear the trial evidence before making any definitive judgment. But, nothing that has been released as fact (verified by LE and/or recordings) in any way leads me to assume that Zimmerman is the victim here. I honestly don't understand the mindset of those that have drawn that conclusion, unless they're developing "what if" scenarios in their own imaginations and convincing themselves that they're "must have beens" because they have some bias in favor of Zimmerman over Martin. Sad, imo.

[username]

Zimmerman didn't make every effort to retreat IMO. Quite the opposite.

Hey fella, he was jumped. Pretty hard to retreat when dude's on top of you pummeling your face.

I thought you were smarter than you're letting on.

How do you know he was jumped? That's a BIG assumption.

ETA: we know for a fact though that G was following T.

What if it went this way:

Trayvon notices Z following him and decided to confront him face to face.

Maybe something like this:

T- Why you following me, man?

Z- Keeping an eye on your ass while you're in this neighborhood.

T- Takes quick swing at him and knocks him to the ground, and proceeds to get on top and continues to punch.

Z- Pulls gun, and kills him instantly with one shot.

Is that scenario any better for your client (T)?

Would you be cool with some adult male not in any uniform following your 17 y/o kid around a neighborhood without identifying himself? He's not that age yet, but I imagine my son would be scared. He'd probably either think the guy was going to hurt him or he was some creepy perv. Neither good.

[username]

I know if some stranger were following me around, the LAST thing that I would think is "oh, that must be a concerned citizen or the local neighborhood watch guy".

[Midwest Spy]

Zimmerman didn't make every effort to retreat IMO. Quite the opposite.

Hey fella, he was jumped. Pretty hard to retreat when dude's on top of you pummeling your face.

I thought you were smarter than you're letting on.

How do you know he was jumped? That's a BIG assumption.

ETA: we know for a fact though that G was following T.

Yep, we know for a fact that Zimmerman followed/pursued Martin against 911 dispatcher instruction. Pretty hard to get "jumped" if you're the one in pursuit.

We also know for a fact that Zimmerman is a liar; thus the perjury for lying about his financial status - to a judge.

We also know that Martin was not in the act of any criminal activity when Zimmerman pursued him.

I don't know what happened after Zimmerman caught up to Martin that night and want to see/hear the trial evidence before making any definitive judgment. But, nothing that has been released as fact (verified by LE and/or recordings) in any way leads me to assume that Zimmerman is the victim here. I honestly don't understand the mindset of those that have drawn that conclusion, unless they're developing "what if" scenarios in their own imaginations and convincing themselves that they're "must have beens" because they have some bias in favor of Zimmerman over Martin. Sad, imo.

Liberal leaning women are always the hardest to convince.

If you're really that naive about life, that's cool.

Just save your 'sad' comments for someone who really needs them.

[username]

Grasping, MS.

I'm going to stop posting about G and T in this thread. I'd rather keep it in the original vs dividing up the conversation.

[Midwest Spy]

Zimmerman didn't make every effort to retreat IMO. Quite the opposite.

Hey fella, he was jumped. Pretty hard to retreat when dude's on top of you pummeling your face.

I thought you were smarter than you're letting on.

How do you know he was jumped? That's a BIG assumption.

ETA: we know for a fact though that G was following T.

What if it went this way:

Trayvon notices Z following him and decided to confront him face to face.

Maybe something like this:

T- Why you following me, man?

Z- Keeping an eye on your ass while you're in this neighborhood.

T- Takes quick swing at him and knocks him to the ground, and proceeds to get on top and continues to punch.

Z- Pulls gun, and kills him instantly with one shot.

Is that scenario any better for your client (T)?

Would you be cool with some adult male not in any uniform following your 17 y/o kid around a neighborhood without identifying himself? He's not that age yet, but I imagine my son would be scared. He'd probably either think the guy was going to hurt him or he was some creepy perv. Neither good.

First of all, my kid would never be 'profiled' since white teens are about 10 times less likely to be committing the crimes in that neighborhood.

Here's what surprises me about you defenders of Trayvon. You all say that he had every right to be where he was that night and was doing nothing wrong.

What if he was getting ready to case something? Ever thought about that? I mean, his dad thought he was with his cousin. Maybe he was the perp in earlier crimes in that neighborhood? Criminals don't like to have people watch them. Makes them nervous. Somebody with nothing to hide wouldn't think anything of it. Especially if they were heading straight home.

He was no innocent kid. There's a reason no one wants his MySpace/FaceBook pics made public. He was a wannabe thug. I still haven't been able to verify that he assaulted that bus driver. Funny, but the ACLU and every other bleeding heart I'm sure would like to keep that quiet. That would blow his 'innocent little kid' cover.

[Duchess]

So what that he wasn't an innocent kid? So what? He deserved to be shot & killed?

[Midwest Spy]

So what that he wasn't an innocent kid? So what? He deserved to be shot & killed?

I'm going to speak s-l-o-w-l-y for you.

If he assaulted someone, and that person had a gun, and used it to kill him, well then, yes, I guess he 'deserved' to die.

If it can be proven that he didn't assault/jump Zimmerman, than no, he didn't deserve to die, and Z should do at least 25 yrs-life.

[username]

Ummmm, back to the walking while black thread?

[HairOfTheDog]

Liberal leaning women are always the hardest to convince.

If you're really that naive about life, that's cool.

Just save your 'sad' comments for someone who really needs them.

I find your presumptuousness and stating opinions/ideas as if they're facts to be sad. It's my opinion, as clearly labeled.

I'd bet that I'm more conservative than you on many counts, but I'm not gonna tell you not to make such baseless comments. I also won't state for a fact that I'm more conservative on many counts because I have the sense to realize that it's only an opinion/perception on my part based on limited post context.

You keep spewing though; I seriously wouldn't want you to stop expressing yourself as you see fit (for the same reason that I'll continue to do so, regardless of your request).

You're right about one thing though, MS. It's hard to convince me that something that isn't supported by fact is true just because you say so. Call me crazy.

[Sphincter Cop]

The George Zimmerman case has nothing in common with the “stand your ground” statute. If that were the case, Zimmerman would be walking free right now! It is plainly obvious that this was racial profiling at its very best. This would be best applied if Martin employed a self defense stance and did not die in the process. Zimmerman would still have been charged; no doubt in my mind.

What floors me is that regardless of what you want to believe , the media and irresponsible criminal justice personnel have a tendency to manipulate facts into something less or more than what they are; as do particular organizations regarding race relations. It is hard to not get emotionally fired up over these things. But you have to step back and really push all the bullshit aside!

I don’t care who you are or where you come from. Everyone has a certain amount of prejudice within them and if they say this isn’t true; they’re a liar.

Back on topic; I have no issue with anyone defending their home, their own life, or another’s life when it there is no other obvious choice to be made. Just like the case in Minnesota with the teens who were shot and killed while burglarizing a home. I think the guy was totally justified in protecting himself and his home, but you cross a line when you go into “overkill” mode.

I have a huge dislike for any “opportunist/predator” (yes, that’s what they are) regardless of their skin color or heritage that commit crimes against anyone. It is sickening and inexcusable at all levels, but if they justifiably die in doing so; well so be it.

[username]

Zimmerman hasn't had his "stand your ground" hearing yet, right, SC? I thought that was still a possibility.

On another note, if Duchess doesn't object, I wouldn't mind if this thread were locked and the last few comments moved to the WWB thread. The double conversation bugs me but up to you SC/Duchess.

[Sphincter Cop]

Zimmerman hasn't had his "stand your ground" hearing yet, right, SC? I thought that was still a possibility.

On another note, if Duchess doesn't object, I wouldn't mind if this thread were locked and the last few comments moved to the WWB thread. The double conversation bugs me but up to you SC/Duchess.

User, the probable cause hearing determined that, and he didn't have a leg to stand on. The media sensationalized the law when the homicide took place, but that was it.

Hence, the charge of second degree murder from the special prosecutor.