GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, OR DO THEY?

[SIXFOOTERsez]

I figured you would have an answer

[BigMark]

My daughter and her fiance are in town from Chicago, they are moving to Urbana so she can get her Masters in Mechanical Engineering. They are driving back in the kickass Subaru all weather package Forester we just bought for them. While here one of the wishes was to go shooting as neither had before. Took out the ¹⁰⁄₂₂ .22 rifle, nine shot .22 revolver and .44 mag Super Blackhawk revolver. Once we went from .44 special to Magnum shit got real. Great time was had by all...And on the way all firearms had trigger locks.

[Not Gay]

Guns do kill people they do. I myself was once very badly killed by a gun!

[HairOfTheDog]

I copied Duchess's post below from the MID-TERMS thread to jump-off with more detail.

I find it interesting that 15 House republicans with an NRA rating of A all lost on Tuesday. All 15 were replaced with Democrats with an NRA rating of F. I'm pleasantly surprised, even given the gun climate right now.

Yeah, it's good to see that candidates are no longer skirting or avoiding gun policy in their campaigns.

The Parkland High School mass shooting survivors did a good job mobilizing the youth vote.  10% more people between 18 and 21 years old voted last week as compared to the 2014 midterms.  That's the highest voter participation for that bloc in 25 years.  

35 A-rated NRA politicians lost their Congressional election bids.

Rep. Nancy Pelosi of California, the Democratic leader who is running for a second stint as House speaker, vowed to push for a range of actions to stem gun violence, including restrictions on high-capacity magazines and a measure allowing temporary removal of guns from people deemed an imminent risk to themselves or others.

The Dems will face a challenge with a Republican-controlled Senate, but since a large majority of Republicans support some new gun safety/control measures, I think they have a good chance of finally getting some new legislation passed.

And, I think the tragic reality of the increased frequency of high-fatality mass shootings will help the Dems garner some Republican support in the Congress.  

Refs:
https://www.teenvogue.com/story/2018-mid...for-growth
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/09/gun-cont...y-nra.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/...87eb9443e0

[HairOfTheDog]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/...87eb9443e0

[Duchess]

Sandy Hook feels much more recent to me. It's very hard to believe it's been almost 6 years.

It feels somewhat shameful & horrifying that these murders continue to happen with more & more frequency and things remain the same.

[HairOfTheDog]

Gun Control/Safety Activists Achieve Gains in 2018



For gun control advocates, the 2018 midterm elections were largely a success.

They defeated at least 15 House Republicans with “A” National Rifle Association ratings, unseating them with Democrats holding an “F,” the Wall Street Journal reported.

They outspent the NRA and pro-gun rights groups for the first time, $10 million to $8 million, per data compiled by the Center for Responsive Politics. And they had voter sentiment on their side — 59 percent of all voters in the election said they supported stricter gun measures, according to the national exit poll.

It wasn't all good news for these groups, however, as candidates in favor of fewer restrictions on guns won key Senate and gubernatorial contests in purple and red states. And gun control groups are fully aware that the NRA could make a comeback in 2020.

The midterms played out amid multiple mass shootings in 2017-18 — in Pittsburgh (Oct. 27, 2018); Annapolis, Maryland (June 28, 2018); Sante Fe, Texas on (May 18, 2018); Parkland, Florida (Feb. 14, 2018); and Las Vegas (Oct. 1, 2017).

Revenue at the NRA dropped by $55 million, or 15 percent, in 2017, according to IRS filings.

Still, the NRA mobilized enough support to secure significant victories for Republicans and pro-gun rights supporters.  NRA-backed candidates triumphed in gubernatorial races in Georgia and Florida — two of the marquee contests of 2018.

The NRA also invested in GOP Senate candidates in Indiana, Missouri and North Dakota — all of whom ousted Democratic Senate incumbents.

Given these wins and losses, and with 2020 in the not-so-distant future, gun control advocates say they’re focusing on mobilizing young voters, women and minorities to ensure “their voices are heard.”

Ref:  https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/electio...20-n947156

[HairOfTheDog]

And..........while the President and the Congress have done nothing at the national level, state governments got busy, especially after the school shooting in Parkland, Florida.

69 gun control measures were passed this year — more than any other year since the Newtown, Conn., massacre in 2012, and more than three times the number passed in 2017.

2018 Gun Laws Map
brown indicates tightened gun laws
peach indicates loosened gun laws


All 9 states that loosened gun restrictions are controlled by Republicans, which is nothing new.

However, 20 of the states that tightened gun restrictions are controlled by Republicans, which is a change.

Story:  https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018...Multimedia

[MirahM]

I heard on this radio show-a while back-BECAUSE MY TOWN ONLY HAS 2 STATIONS AND THEY ARE FUCKING CONSEVATIVE OVER HERE-ANYway, Someone called in and said, "IT IS MY GOD-GIVEN RIGHT TO OWN A GUN"

AND they were fucking serious. AND THEN THE RADIO HOST CHIMED IN AND SUPPORTED THAT STATMENT-and they all acted like IT WAS in THE BIBLE.

BUT IT ISN'T!

FIND ME IN THE BIBLE WHERE IT SAYS THAT GOD WANTS YOU TO HAVE A GUN IN YOUR CLOSET?!

[Fry Guy]

1. Exodus 22:2-3 “If a thief is caught in the act of breaking into a house and is struck and killed in the process, the person who killed the thief is not guilty of murder. But if it happens in daylight, the one who killed the thief is guilty of murder.”

2. Luke 11:21 “When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own mansion, his property is safe.”

3. Isaiah 49:25 “Who can snatch the plunder of war from the hands of a warrior? Who can demand that a tyrant let his captives go?”

4. Luke 22:35-37 “Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you out to preach the Good News and you did not have money, a traveler’s bag, or an extra pair of sandals, did you need anything?” “No,” they replied. “But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one! For the time has come for this prophecy about me to be fulfilled: ‘He was counted among the rebels. Yes, everything written about me by the prophets will come true.”

5. Luke 22:38-39 “Look, Lord,” they replied, “we have two swords among us.” “That’s enough,” he said. Then, accompanied by the disciples, Jesus left the upstairs room and went as usual to the Mount of Olives.”

[HairOfTheDog]

I heard on this radio show-a while back-BECAUSE MY TOWN ONLY HAS 2 STATIONS AND THEY ARE FUCKING CONSEVATIVE OVER HERE-ANYway, Someone called in and said, "IT IS MY GOD-GIVEN RIGHT TO OWN A GUN"

AND they were fucking serious. AND THEN THE RADIO HOST CHIMED IN AND SUPPORTED THAT STATMENT-and they all acted like IT WAS in THE BIBLE.

BUT IT ISN'T!

FIND ME IN THE BIBLE WHERE IT SAYS THAT GOD WANTS YOU TO HAVE A GUN IN YOUR CLOSET?!

Ah, the 'it's my God given right!' contingency.  They show up in almost every debate surrounding controversial policies, interpreting (and in some cases twisting) Bible verses to fit their own agendas/beliefs. 

The conservative caller and radio host are likely among those who also insist that the Bible prohibits homosexuals from marrying, though the Bible doesn't address same sex marriage at all.

The Bible doesn't address guns either. Rather, in some verses/passages, the Bible references the necessity of self defense using weapons of the time. 

 I've seen some Bible verses/passages posted by people arguing against gun control, and I've seen other Bible verses/passages posted by people arguing for broader gun control.

Anyway, you're right, people don't have a God-given right to own guns.  However, U.S. citizens (including atheists) have a Constitutional right to have a gun in their closet for self-defense according to the Supreme Court's ruling/interpretation of the Second Amendment.

[Fry Guy]

Also apparently the constitution mentions the possibility of an armed citizenry being a counter to the risk of a dictatorship via a militia.

[HairOfTheDog]

It's been 443 days since the Las Vegas mass shooting which killed 58 people and wounded over 450.  

The mass shooter used a semi-automatic rifle equipped with a bump stock in order to maximize the number of bullets he could fire into a crowd of outdoor concert-goers before being stopped.



President Trump stated that he would ban bump stocks immediately following the Vegas massacre and has claimed several times since then that it had been done.  In reality, the bump stock ban was not done until today.  Better (very) late than never.

Anyway, according to the Justice Department, there are tens of thousands of bump stocks in the hands of gun owners.  They have 90 days to turn them into the ATF or destroy them.

Gun rights activists have already filed a federal lawsuit challenging the ban and the NRA has unsurprisingly issued a statement expressing its disappointment with the new law.

Story:  https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-ad...d=59884493

[Maggot]

Thats impossible Trump cannot do anything according to the braniacs in the U.S. today.

[Duchess]

It's been 443 days since the Las Vegas mass shooting which killed 58 people and wounded over 450. 

In the span of just a few days last week 3 shooters killed 14 people in 3 separate incidents. Just another day in America.

[HairOfTheDog]

New Zealand Enacts New Bans following Mass Shooting

New Zealand has banned the sale of all “military-style” semi-automatics, assault rifles and high capacity magazines, less than a week after 50 people died in live-streamed shootings at two Christchurch mosques. 


In addition to the immediate stop on sales of weapons to avoid stockpiling, Prime Minister  ^ Jacinda Ardern announced that the government will use a buyback program to remove now-banned weapons from the streets.

The legislation will be introduced when parliament meets in the first week of April, with a “short, sharp select committee process” for feedback on technical aspects of the law. It is unlikely to encounter resistance in Parliament; the largest opposition party quickly said it supports the measures.

(continued)

[HairOfTheDog]

New Zealand’s overhauls were inspired partly by Australia's response to a mass shooting in 1996 that claimed 35 lives: a mix of buybacks, registration and outright bans.

In the U.S. however, no new national gun laws have been enacted, despite a spate of massacres including the Parkland high school shooting in 2018, in which 17 people died. 

Americans remain deeply divided about the issue of guns. Pew Research reports that 76% of Republicans say it’s more important to protect the right of Americans to own guns than it is to control gun ownership, while just 19% of Democrats agree with that statement. Overall, 57% of U.S. adults say gun laws should be more strict, while 31% say they are about right and 11% say they should be less strict.

Some of the new Democratic House representatives won election based on platforms advocating for stronger gun control / safety laws in the U.S.

More:  http://fortune.com/2019/03/21/new-zealand-new-gun-laws/

[Rootilda]

[Duchess]

It's amazing that there are some who think that ^^^^^^^ is the answer to preventing school massacres. 'Merica!  

[HairOfTheDog]

It's amazing that there are some who think that ^^^^^^^ is the answer to preventing school massacres. 'Merica!  

If the Dems manage to take the Senate and win more governorships  in 2020, there might finally be some real movement in terms of gun control/safety legislation in the U.S. 

Last month, the new Democrat-controlled U.S. House passed two significant pieces of gun legislation.  

The vote on the first bill, dubbed the Bipartisan Background Checks Act of 2019, would mandate that all  potential gun buyers/recipients be subject to a background check.

The second bill would extend the period federal authorities have to complete a background check before a gun sale can go through. Under current law, if a check isn't finalized in three business days, the transaction can automatically proceed.

Neither bill is expected to pass the Republican-controlled Senate, but the groundwork has been laid.

In the meantime, some state Congresses that became Democrat-controlled in the midterms, like New Hampshire,  are poised to pass new gun legislation.  New Hampshire's state bills would also enact universal background checks and longer waiting periods.  Those bills have already passed the New Hampshire state House of Reps and are expected to easily pass the state's Senate as well.  However, Republican governor Sununu is expected to veto them both.


Refs:
https://www.npr.org/2019/02/27/698512397...-2-decades
https://www.mychamplainvalley.com/news/l...1861029000