(02-18-2011, 02:41 AM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 01:49 AM)DickTracy Wrote: Lucas County Coroner James Patrick said autopsies performed yesterday showed that both Ms. Straub and Mr. Clarke died from asphyxiation. They had injuries to their necks but no other significant marks, he said.


Dr. Patrick said his office could not pinpoint a time of death, although it appears both died within six hours of being found.


http://beta.toledoblade.com/frontpage/2011/02/02/Police-tapes-capture-mother-s-frantic-calls.html

"dying within 6 hours of being found" sounds to me like a 10pm to 4am time frame for TOD...and using deductive reasoning since I believe TW did talk to JC around 11p and that will be confirmed by cell phone records and John S found his son at 3:50 am .....We then can conclude a reasonable TOD at between 11pm and 3:50am....That sounds familiar, I may have heard that before...Oh no wait!....I said that before....

(02-18-2011, 02:43 AM)kitty1 Wrote:

(02-17-2011, 05:15 PM)curious Wrote: In regards to the dad, the window, and basement...

First, in regards to the window, I wonder if LE confirmed that the bodies could be seen from the window based on his claims? Perhaps that was how the perps entered the house, unlocking it during a previous visit to the home...and it makes for a good cover if worried fingerprints lifted from the window might match yours.

Secondly, per Maytee's call to 911 stating something to the effect of seeing the bodies in the basement...does the home even have a basement and if so, does it have a window?

And lastly, where did LE find the puppy...in a cage, locked in a room, hiding? If it's a puppy, typically the first thing you do when you get home is let it out to go potty, were there dog prints in the snow and where do they let it out from the front, back, through the garage?

they found the puppy under the couch. poor thing was traumatized. he was biting and nipping at everyone that was trying to get him out. they had to call the dog warden to get him out. he is safe now and in good hands.

(02-18-2011, 03:00 AM)kitty1 Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 02:04 AM)jash Wrote:

Quote:kitty1 Wrote:
(Today 12:00 AM)kfran Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:53 PM)Jane Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:50 PM)kfran Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:46 PM)shitstorm Wrote:
No. Nothing has been confirmed beyond what was released right at the beginning. Cause of death - asphyxiation.

So we don't know for sure if LS died from the plastic bag over her head. It could have been that she was choked to death, possibly using the pants.

the coroner stated death by asphyixiation (sp?)

Jane, yes that is what the coroner stated. But asphyxiation is lack of oxygen, it can be from smothering or choking or strangulation. I'm trying to find a reason for the damn pants being under her head.

she was found with only her work pants on. i think that she was planning on changing into those pants to go out when she heard commotion and ran out to see what was going on.

makes sense to me.

We have to put several things to rest and not keep bringing up things that are false.

Death was due to asphyxiation due to bags over head per coroner. If she was strangled, death would have been asphyxiation due to strangulation of something like that. Strangulation would have ligature marks, bruising around throat, or the telltale hyoid bone being broken. Coroner definitely said she was asphyxiationwith bag, which could be used interchangeably with the work smothered.

Lisa's uncle has stated bluntly that Lisa was still wearing her uniform. he did not say just her pants. Or that her top was off. Her uniform consisted of a TGIF polo (I think they are red and black here, or red or black striped. Pants are black I believe. Lisa's uncle made a point of saying that she was still wearing her uniform and that's why he thinks they were killed shortly after arriving home cuz she didn't have time to change out of it. He didn't say she was in the process of changing, he said she was wearing her uniform..not half her uniform. I think we can take that as fact and stop all this supposition that MAYTEE brought into the mix by saying she didn't have a top on. Her uncle (who would know) says she was clothed.

personally, I think the guys walked right in behind them when they got home...or were already in the house waiting.

do u think that her uncle is gonna announce on national tv that she was half dressed. he says that she was still in her uniform. you can't assume that to mean her entire uniform. the point he was trying to make was that she wasnt home very long because she always changes out of her uniform right away. She didn't get that far.

(02-18-2011, 03:03 AM)NightOwl Wrote:

(02-17-2011, 10:20 PM)shitstorm Wrote:

(02-17-2011, 09:56 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Is anyone besides me squeaked by the photos of M and J here?
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?tab=3#!/photo.php?fbid=194626147232484&set=a.194626143899151.54121.190897417605357&theater

Not really but look at this

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=52307&id=190897417605357#!/photo.php?fbid=194630330565399&set=a.190900100938422.52307.190897417605357&theater

Does that tattoo say Maytee?

How observant! Good Post! Maytee means "loveable" in Basque language. Cuban mothers are very loving with their sons!

(02-18-2011, 03:06 AM)curiouscat Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 02:51 AM)kitty1 Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 01:40 AM)Jane Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 01:16 AM)curious Wrote:

(02-17-2011, 11:38 PM)jash Wrote: UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son is in the basement, tied up with a towel (ph). I just saw him through the window. The police were (EXPLETIVE DELETED) earlier and did absolutely nothing!


I think everyone can agree that the "unidentified female" is Maytee as she keeps saying my son.

More stuff that bothers me...

1. She says, "I just saw them" Yet it has been reported in PRINT that she waited in the car while her husband and cousin went to see if they could see anything. The cousin comes running back yelling call an ambulance, call the police...so Maytee did not see them when she said she did.

2. I can't see any way where you would say the word towels instead of duck tape.

3. The basement??? I don't even know where the hell she got this...You don't confuse a kitchen/family room combo with a basement.

4, Cell phones on their bodies? LE did not report this tho they reported cell phone parts strewn all over...I just think this is completel fabrication

5. Lisa has no top on. Lisa's uncle has confirmed that Lisa was still in her uniform..she was not found undressed.

All of Maytee's 911 calls in my opinion are half truths and complete fabrication and exaggeration about what was said and what occurred, and what she saw or didn't see. I swear, everything she says muddies the water further and makes it more difficult to weed out fact from fiction.

There's also conflicting reports and the lights being on...if what TW claims is accurate that only the light in the stairwell was on, how did the cousin see the bodies? Guess you would have to re-create the scenario to find out...dunno but i get more confused with every post

someone brought up a good point, last night, & I really think it's how it went down. I think JC's father kicked the door in, BEFORE that last 911 call was made, where Maytee is saying she can see her son lying inside the house, etc ... As soon as he kicked in the door, & saw what he saw, I imagine, THAT'S when Maytee called again (the last time)

we know that. that has never been in question. the last 911 call is when she reports that they have been found. i don't understand what u r saying????? of course they would find the bodies and then call 911. u r not making any sense at all???????????????????

Ok having a problem with unidentified caller...no cell number to trace, no pings, she obviously wasn't Maytee or by now they would have ascertained it's not Maytee...with the FBI involved, cmon now with that the elite squad of invesigators and they haven't identified the caller...either the caller is so connected to such a brilliant hit no federal investigation can place or maybe they already know and are waiting for the final evidence or I'm starting to get scared now...even the FBI can't get a finger on this case. Reallly? WOW...they already released the profile...those are fairly accurate...once again... and usually a here we come get ready move.....all the silence from LE I believe is cuz someone bigger, stronger, better and more capable of the arrest is already in the house. problem is...their case is so important this case seems unsolved.

(02-17-2011, 10:56 PM)lotusflower Wrote: the admin. said that she wouldn't mention the name of this site so that her ppl would come to this site.

Then we need to get word to "her people", don't we.

(02-18-2011, 12:18 AM)Spalding Wrote: I think one of the reasons that this case has attracted so much interest is the manner of death. Guns are a convenient and effective means to murder and, as a result, have become very prevalent in drug and gang crimes. For plastic bags to be used, you would first have to subdue the individuals (at risk to yourself while doing so) and then take the extra time associated with suffocation to make sure the job was complete. If the killers wanted to minimize their time at the scene and minimize the chance that DNA would be left as a result of the struggle, guns would have been the way to go.

So if it were a robbery gone bad, why employ plastic bags? In my opinion, the manner of death suggests a motive of revenge, either for snitching or stealing from the wrong person. This crime was done to maximize pain and to send a message. I think it was premeditated.

(02-18-2011, 12:50 AM)kfran Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 12:46 AM)shitstorm Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 12:41 AM)kfran Wrote: Has it been confirmed anywhere that LS was strangled w/the black & pink pants?

No. Nothing has been confirmed beyond what was released right at the beginning. Cause of death - asphyxiation.

So we don't know for sure if LS died from the plastic bag over her head. It could have been that she was choked to death, possibly using the pants.

(02-18-2011, 02:04 AM)jash Wrote:

Quote:kitty1 Wrote:
(Today 12:00 AM)kfran Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:53 PM)Jane Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:50 PM)kfran Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:46 PM)shitstorm Wrote:
No. Nothing has been confirmed beyond what was released right at the beginning. Cause of death - asphyxiation.

So we don't know for sure if LS died from the plastic bag over her head. It could have been that she was choked to death, possibly using the pants.

the coroner stated death by asphyixiation (sp?)

Jane, yes that is what the coroner stated. But asphyxiation is lack of oxygen, it can be from smothering or choking or strangulation. I'm trying to find a reason for the damn pants being under her head.

she was found with only her work pants on. i think that she was planning on changing into those pants to go out when she heard commotion and ran out to see what was going on.

makes sense to me.

We have to put several things to rest and not keep bringing up things that are false.

Death was due to asphyxiation due to bags over head per coroner. If she was strangled, death would have been asphyxiation due to strangulation of something like that. Strangulation would have ligature marks, bruising around throat, or the telltale hyoid bone being broken. Coroner definitely said she was asphyxiationwith bag, which could be used interchangeably with the work smothered.

Lisa's uncle has stated bluntly that Lisa was still wearing her uniform. he did not say just her pants. Or that her top was off. Her uniform consisted of a TGIF polo (I think they are red and black here, or red or black striped. Pants are black I believe. Lisa's uncle made a point of saying that she was still wearing her uniform and that's why he thinks they were killed shortly after arriving home cuz she didn't have time to change out of it. He didn't say she was in the process of changing, he said she was wearing her uniform..not half her uniform. I think we can take that as fact and stop all this supposition that MAYTEE brought into the mix by saying she didn't have a top on. Her uncle (who would know) says she was clothed.

personally, I think the guys walked right in behind them when they got home...or were already in the house waiting.

(02-18-2011, 02:04 AM)jash Wrote:

Quote:kitty1 Wrote:
(Today 12:00 AM)kfran Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:53 PM)Jane Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:50 PM)kfran Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:46 PM)shitstorm Wrote:
No. Nothing has been confirmed beyond what was released right at the beginning. Cause of death - asphyxiation.

So we don't know for sure if LS died from the plastic bag over her head. It could have been that she was choked to death, possibly using the pants.

the coroner stated death by asphyixiation (sp?)

Jane, yes that is what the coroner stated. But asphyxiation is lack of oxygen, it can be from smothering or choking or strangulation. I'm trying to find a reason for the damn pants being under her head.

she was found with only her work pants on. i think that she was planning on changing into those pants to go out when she heard commotion and ran out to see what was going on.

makes sense to me.

We have to put several things to rest and not keep bringing up things that are false.

Death was due to asphyxiation due to bags over head per coroner. If she was strangled, death would have been asphyxiation due to strangulation of something like that. Strangulation would have ligature marks, bruising around throat, or the telltale hyoid bone being broken. Coroner definitely said she was asphyxiationwith bag, which could be used interchangeably with the work smothered.

Lisa's uncle has stated bluntly that Lisa was still wearing her uniform. he did not say just her pants. Or that her top was off. Her uniform consisted of a TGIF polo (I think they are red and black here, or red or black striped. Pants are black I believe. Lisa's uncle made a point of saying that she was still wearing her uniform and that's why he thinks they were killed shortly after arriving home cuz she didn't have time to change out of it. He didn't say she was in the process of changing, he said she was wearing her uniform..not half her uniform. I think we can take that as fact and stop all this supposition that MAYTEE brought into the mix by saying she didn't have a top on. Her uncle (who would know) says she was clothed.

personally, I think the guys walked right in behind them when they got home...or were already in the house waiting.

(02-18-2011, 07:16 AM)DCTim Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 02:04 AM)jash Wrote:

Quote:kitty1 Wrote:
(Today 12:00 AM)kfran Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:53 PM)Jane Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:50 PM)kfran Wrote:
(Yesterday 11:46 PM)shitstorm Wrote:
No. Nothing has been confirmed beyond what was released right at the beginning. Cause of death - asphyxiation.

So we don't know for sure if LS died from the plastic bag over her head. It could have been that she was choked to death, possibly using the pants.

the coroner stated death by asphyixiation (sp?)

Jane, yes that is what the coroner stated. But asphyxiation is lack of oxygen, it can be from smothering or choking or strangulation. I'm trying to find a reason for the damn pants being under her head.

she was found with only her work pants on. i think that she was planning on changing into those pants to go out when she heard commotion and ran out to see what was going on.

makes sense to me.

We have to put several things to rest and not keep bringing up things that are false.

Death was due to asphyxiation due to bags over head per coroner. If she was strangled, death would have been asphyxiation due to strangulation of something like that. Strangulation would have ligature marks, bruising around throat, or the telltale hyoid bone being broken. Coroner definitely said she was asphyxiationwith bag, which could be used interchangeably with the work smothered.

Lisa's uncle has stated bluntly that Lisa was still wearing her uniform. he did not say just her pants. Or that her top was off. Her uniform consisted of a TGIF polo (I think they are red and black here, or red or black striped. Pants are black I believe. Lisa's uncle made a point of saying that she was still wearing her uniform and that's why he thinks they were killed shortly after arriving home cuz she didn't have time to change out of it. He didn't say she was in the process of changing, he said she was wearing her uniform..not half her uniform. I think we can take that as fact and stop all this supposition that MAYTEE brought into the mix by saying she didn't have a top on. Her uncle (who would know) says she was clothed.

personally, I think the guys walked right in behind them when they got home...or were already in the house waiting.

Also, much as I respect LS' uncle from what I've seen and read of him, he likely didn't arrive on the scene until hours later - probably well after daybreak - as LE would've had to figure out who to call (who would be next of kin and was local, since the parents were obviously not there?).

we, the public, are starved for some news on this case. i am pro-LE all the way strangely enough, heh, and i do understand the news blackout from authorities. but i think they REALLY REALLY NEED TO SAY SOMETHING. this is not their garden-variety drug thug case, it has clearly captured the attention and imagination of people everywhere. the Dept. probably is very conscious of that. and we also need to bear in mind, the less public info given out, the less likely some sleazy defense attny. will be able to declare massive pre-trial publicity has been prejudicial against the poor client(s) who were badly potty trained and not responsible for being depraved, then whine for a change of venue. they could also sit in jail awaiting trial for years. and i want to see this trial!
and consider this prospect...what if there is never an arrest? (not likely, but anything is possible). you don't take a capital murder case to trial w/o all the evidence you need to win at trial. even then you could get o.j.'s jury.

(02-18-2011, 06:47 AM)DCTim Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 12:18 AM)Spalding Wrote: I think one of the reasons that this case has attracted so much interest is the manner of death. Guns are a convenient and effective means to murder and, as a result, have become very prevalent in drug and gang crimes. For plastic bags to be used, you would first have to subdue the individuals (at risk to yourself while doing so) and then take the extra time associated with suffocation to make sure the job was complete. If the killers wanted to minimize their time at the scene and minimize the chance that DNA would be left as a result of the struggle, guns would have been the way to go.

So if it were a robbery gone bad, why employ plastic bags? In my opinion, the manner of death suggests a motive of revenge, either for snitching or stealing from the wrong person. This crime was done to maximize pain and to send a message. I think it was premeditated.

I have believed this along along, but I'm baffled by the holes in the closet walls, ransacked bedrooms, etc. Wouldn't murderers just be there for that reason, and not multi-tasking by attempting a robbery too?

(02-18-2011, 08:18 AM)Lady Cop Wrote: we, the public, are starved for some news on this case. i am pro-LE all the way strangely enough, heh, and i do understand the news blackout from authorities. but i think they REALLY REALLY NEED TO SAY SOMETHING. this is not their garden-variety drug thug case, it has clearly captured the attention and imagination of people everywhere. the Dept. probably is very conscious of that. and we also need to bear in mind, the less public info given out, the less likely some sleazy defense attny. will be able to declare massive pre-trial publicity has been prejudicial against the poor client(s) who were badly potty trained and not responsible for being depraved, then whine for a change of venue. they could also sit in jail awaiting trial for years. and i want to see this trial!
and consider this prospect...what if there is never an arrest? (not likely, but anything is possible). you don't take a capital murder case to trial w/o all the evidence you need to win at trial. even then you could get o.j.'s jury.

(02-18-2011, 08:18 AM)Lady Cop Wrote: we, the public, are starved for some news on this case. i am pro-LE all the way strangely enough, heh, and i do understand the news blackout from authorities. but i think they REALLY REALLY NEED TO SAY SOMETHING. this is not their garden-variety drug thug case, it has clearly captured the attention and imagination of people everywhere. the Dept. probably is very conscious of that. and we also need to bear in mind, the less public info given out, the less likely some sleazy defense attny. will be able to declare massive pre-trial publicity has been prejudicial against the poor client(s) who were badly potty trained and not responsible for being depraved, then whine for a change of venue. they could also sit in jail awaiting trial for years. and i want to see this trial!
and consider this prospect...what if there is never an arrest? (not likely, but anything is possible). you don't take a capital murder case to trial w/o all the evidence you need to win at trial. even then you could get o.j.'s jury.

(02-18-2011, 08:21 AM)Spalding Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 06:47 AM)DCTim Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 12:18 AM)Spalding Wrote: I think one of the reasons that this case has attracted so much interest is the manner of death. Guns are a convenient and effective means to murder and, as a result, have become very prevalent in drug and gang crimes. For plastic bags to be used, you would first have to subdue the individuals (at risk to yourself while doing so) and then take the extra time associated with suffocation to make sure the job was complete. If the killers wanted to minimize their time at the scene and minimize the chance that DNA would be left as a result of the struggle, guns would have been the way to go.

So if it were a robbery gone bad, why employ plastic bags? In my opinion, the manner of death suggests a motive of revenge, either for snitching or stealing from the wrong person. This crime was done to maximize pain and to send a message. I think it was premeditated.

I have believed this along along, but I'm baffled by the holes in the closet walls, ransacked bedrooms, etc. Wouldn't murderers just be there for that reason, and not multi-tasking by attempting a robbery too?

They would do it to make it look like a robbery.

(02-18-2011, 08:25 AM)Spalding Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 08:18 AM)Lady Cop Wrote: we, the public, are starved for some news on this case. i am pro-LE all the way strangely enough, heh, and i do understand the news blackout from authorities. but i think they REALLY REALLY NEED TO SAY SOMETHING. this is not their garden-variety drug thug case, it has clearly captured the attention and imagination of people everywhere. the Dept. probably is very conscious of that. and we also need to bear in mind, the less public info given out, the less likely some sleazy defense attny. will be able to declare massive pre-trial publicity has been prejudicial against the poor client(s) who were badly potty trained and not responsible for being depraved, then whine for a change of venue. they could also sit in jail awaiting trial for years. and i want to see this trial!
and consider this prospect...what if there is never an arrest? (not likely, but anything is possible). you don't take a capital murder case to trial w/o all the evidence you need to win at trial. even then you could get o.j.'s jury.

They know that they can't not solve this case. They also have no shortage of nefarious characters who need vetted, so they will be careful and deliberate. They do not feel a compulsion to assuage our curiosities.

(02-18-2011, 08:21 AM)Spalding Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 06:47 AM)DCTim Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 12:18 AM)Spalding Wrote: I think one of the reasons that this case has attracted so much interest is the manner of death. Guns are a convenient and effective means to murder and, as a result, have become very prevalent in drug and gang crimes. For plastic bags to be used, you would first have to subdue the individuals (at risk to yourself while doing so) and then take the extra time associated with suffocation to make sure the job was complete. If the killers wanted to minimize their time at the scene and minimize the chance that DNA would be left as a result of the struggle, guns would have been the way to go.

So if it were a robbery gone bad, why employ plastic bags? In my opinion, the manner of death suggests a motive of revenge, either for snitching or stealing from the wrong person. This crime was done to maximize pain and to send a message. I think it was premeditated.

I have believed this along along, but I'm baffled by the holes in the closet walls, ransacked bedrooms, etc. Wouldn't murderers just be there for that reason, and not multi-tasking by attempting a robbery too?

They would do it to make it look like a robbery.